Alpinestars - 2010 Bionic Neck Brace SB
- Thread starter Raingauge
- Start date
There are 2 good videos on the Alpinestars website of the more expensive version. The videos show fitting as well as range of motion with a MotoX helmet. It appears that the rear shelf is set low enough that it would have minimal impact on the ability to tilt your head back.
It opening in the front is a little concerning to me.
I would not want to take a digger and have that latch jammed into the front of my neck...
I would not want to take a digger and have that latch jammed into the front of my neck...
I currently made the switch from the leatt to the BNS. I wanted to get some more ride time in with it on but i prob have about 20 hours or so on the BNS and i love it.
1st thing about the BNS is that it is designed around a moto helmet. D2 style bike helmets wont work with this neck brace, go head and call it stupid... the D2 style helmet has to much clearance in the back and you will just end up breaking your neck.
2nd it works very well with the moto helmet i have alot more clearance compared to the leatt. The leatt ended up really hurting my neck for a few weeks to a month of pure pain. Since i moved to the BNS i have no more pain, i dont have to strain my neck as much trying to look up anymore.
3rd cool thing about the BNS is that its made with the same material as your helmet foam. This helps disperse the impact for when you do crash, unlike the leatt. The BNS has 8 years of study/development and its pretty well thought out. Like someone mentioned earlier theres some really good videos of it on youtube check them out.
4th I have the 1st version of the BNS so its hard carbon. When the helmet would hit the back "shelf" it would knock pretty loud. So simple fix, took some soft Velcro and put it where my lid was hitting on the BNS.
5th The strap system is poorly designed. They include 2 elastic bands to hold the BNS in place. You put them on under or over your jersey, you put your arm thru it and wrap it over your head and same with the other side creating an "X" and than you pull the band out from under your jersey and put it around the holder. I know they make a strap system like the leatt but it does not come with the BNS for some reason.
Overall its a great product and it feels much more stable and sturdy than the leatt for sure. I would recommend anyone with a leatt/moto helmet to convert to the BNS.
I dont really have any good pics of me wearing it.
Diablo Finals, cold cold weekend.
this one shows it a little bit better but still far away.
i tried zooming in on it but not sure how.
Any Questions feel free to ask.
1st thing about the BNS is that it is designed around a moto helmet. D2 style bike helmets wont work with this neck brace, go head and call it stupid... the D2 style helmet has to much clearance in the back and you will just end up breaking your neck.
2nd it works very well with the moto helmet i have alot more clearance compared to the leatt. The leatt ended up really hurting my neck for a few weeks to a month of pure pain. Since i moved to the BNS i have no more pain, i dont have to strain my neck as much trying to look up anymore.
3rd cool thing about the BNS is that its made with the same material as your helmet foam. This helps disperse the impact for when you do crash, unlike the leatt. The BNS has 8 years of study/development and its pretty well thought out. Like someone mentioned earlier theres some really good videos of it on youtube check them out.
4th I have the 1st version of the BNS so its hard carbon. When the helmet would hit the back "shelf" it would knock pretty loud. So simple fix, took some soft Velcro and put it where my lid was hitting on the BNS.
5th The strap system is poorly designed. They include 2 elastic bands to hold the BNS in place. You put them on under or over your jersey, you put your arm thru it and wrap it over your head and same with the other side creating an "X" and than you pull the band out from under your jersey and put it around the holder. I know they make a strap system like the leatt but it does not come with the BNS for some reason.
Overall its a great product and it feels much more stable and sturdy than the leatt for sure. I would recommend anyone with a leatt/moto helmet to convert to the BNS.
I dont really have any good pics of me wearing it.
Diablo Finals, cold cold weekend.
this one shows it a little bit better but still far away.
i tried zooming in on it but not sure how.
Any Questions feel free to ask.
Dennis, do you mind if I try yours on next weekend at Mt Penn?
The Leatt definitely will not work with my moto helmet, but I'd like to not break my neck because I wear a moto helmet. I don't like crashing with MTB helmets either, instant headache.
The Leatt definitely will not work with my moto helmet, but I'd like to not break my neck because I wear a moto helmet. I don't like crashing with MTB helmets either, instant headache.
I would have thought the clearance was a good thing. Most people I have talked to who wear braces have had issues with visibility on steeper trails because they could not get there head back far enough.
I'll probably have to find a shop that is stocking these and try one on.
I'll probably have to find a shop that is stocking these and try one on.
yea i dont mind at all. i retired my MTB helmet real quick. DOT for life. i crash way to much on my head to wear a small helmet.
yeah me too. thanks
theres plenty of room with a moto helmet.
theres to much room for a MTB helmet. by the time your helmet would hit the rear shelf your neck would be broken. the BNS was made for a MOTO helmet.
the front latch is completely covered by the lip and the two front plates overlap and interlock nicely, nothing to worry about. The reason they used front and rear hinges instead of side hinges is because all the loads channel through the sides of the brace so having an interruption there is not ideal. In a crash side hinges have been known to break rendering the brace less effectives. Another negative of side hinges is they sit directly above the collarbones and during a crash the brace can come into contact with the bone and cause bruising or breaking. The A-Stars brace, having uninterrupted side beams, acts like leaf springs in the area over the shoulders and distributes loads to the sternum and thoracic plates while also allowing more collarbone clearance. They did their homework on this brace.
DOT is a good choice for DH but its not fair to blanketly say that MTB helmets are inferior. As long as you make sure to use an ASTM1952 DH certified bike helmet such as the Giro Remedy, the Bell Drop, the TLD D3, etc, you will be wearing a helmet tested very similarly to DOT impact standards and in some cases more stringently. DOT has no chinbar test criteria whereas ASTM1952 does. This results in a lot of low-end DOT MX helmets having very weak chinbars. Do you remember when Transworld tested that Sparx DOT helmet and they were able to crush the chinbar just by bear hugging the helmet? I guarantee you could not do that with an ASTM1952 DH helmet. Aside from chinbar, the primary difference in DOT and ASTM1952 is the penetration test in which a DOT helmet must take a very sharp metal projectile impact directly in a vent hole and not allow any contact with the headform. This particular test is overkill for DH as the max velocity is nowhere near similar to moto, particularity street moto, therefore the forces generated are much less than those of the test projectile. Because of this DOT restricts the size of vent holes which limits airflow greatly. ASTM's larger vent holes equate to increased rider comfort which equates to decreased likelihood of a crash, which could be considered increased safety. So in effect an ASTM 1952 helmet is arguably 'safer' than a DOT helmet in more ways than one. Although DOT is still a good choice and better than the older generation of fullface bike helmets.
finally someone that knows their stuff. good read for sure.
. i myself like the feel of a DOT helmet even tho its heavier i know a few others that only wear moto helmets as well. its all personal pref. really.
Wow great info punkassean. Thanks for all the info.
I am actually getting a D3 as soon as they are available for the higher safety ratings than the D2 and also for the new compatibility with the Leatt.
I think I am going to stick with the Leatt.
I am actually getting a D3 as soon as they are available for the higher safety ratings than the D2 and also for the new compatibility with the Leatt.
I think I am going to stick with the Leatt.
Josh, for the record I think both braces are great, especially for MTB just simply due to the lower forces encountered in crashes and zero possibility of having a 200+ lbs dirt scooter scorpion on you.
Off topic but do you know when the D3's are coming out? I want to get one as well. I think im going to get an alpinestar brace...personal preferance over leatt.
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here a zoomed picture of the neck brace on dennis sorry for the crap quality
Attachments
Word on the street is late this month or early next month. =]
Not trying to be a jack@ss, I like what I read, but I'd like to know whether I can trust your opinion: on what authority do you hold all this to be true?
Your helmet looks bottomed out on the brace. Are you running the rear stabilizer at the lowest position?
I ride places like Mt 7 where you have a sustained pitch and need to be able to get your head back to see. If the brace gets in the way you're done.
Just so we're clear.... we're using the term Moto Helmet and DOT helmet interchangeably, right? I have a RockGardn Blacklite, which I'm pretty sure is a DOT certified MTB helmet. But that's just means that it's considered safe enough for Moto as well, right? I might be looking into a brace for next season so I want to have all my information straight.
Also, people ride at Mount 7? like, just regular riding? I thought it was only used for that psychosis race that they did a feature on in Seasons.
Also, people ride at Mount 7? like, just regular riding? I thought it was only used for that psychosis race that they did a feature on in Seasons.
Obviously Sean is voicing some opinion, but the majority of what he is refering to (DOT and ASTM standards, as well as Snell, and CE)...are just that, standards. You can look up the specs, what is tested, what is required, etc, etc.
They don't have the road gap up for liability reasons and none of the trees are padded, but you can ride the whole course. We usually can ride there from Mid-May to the begining of Sept.
There are lots of other good trails on Mt 7 and in the area too. You can pick up maps in town at the bike shops.
I work in the helmet industry and this is my personal opinion based on the information I have seen.
you can not lower the rear its set a a certain position. but they do have these shoulder pads where you take 1 on each side off to lower the whole brace on your body. this is depending on your shoulders obv.
in this pic i am not wearing the X strap support to hold the brace down, im "strapless" in that pic. so maybe it slide up on my body? not sure but it works just fine for steep downhill stuff.
i rode with it at Blue Mt in PA where it gets steep and gnarly and i didnt notice it interfering with my ability to see.
Yes my friend is 6'4 and with his D2 and my Alpinestars brace it would do him no good,too much range of motion so he went with the Leatt. I liked mine with a Fox V3 moto helmet...no problems. Like Dennis said nothing you can adjust just the shoulder insterts to go up or down. These do come in 4 sizes instead of two and with the price point that the new non carbon is going to fall in they should be out there for you to see at moto shops. It is not a DH helmet being sub par just the profile is much slimer than a Moto helmet and I am not going to say there is no way it will work but if I was planning to buy the Alpinestars and use a DH helmet I would want to test it out before I bought it. As far as the brace goes I loved mine and I will be on one next year.
My only gripe is the straps as Dennis mention above. The X-straps are basicly just two elastic bands that hook onto the wings on the outside of the brace. I liked them ok, they are a little uncomfortable at first until you find a good position for them but they do their job. I just think for almost $700 they could have included both straps. If you want the A-strap(which is like the leatt)it is sold seperate for around $25.
which one is free as part of the health care reform package?
neither. Nancy has declared DH too dangerous and you may not do it any longer.
thanks!
not enough time in day. Cliff Notes version please.
Braces good, broken neck bad.not enough time in day. Cliff Notes version please.
Braces not protect all spinal chord injuries.
Each manufacturer say my brace better.
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Alpinstars used cadavers and then pulled the spinalcords out to inspect them- Gnarly!
A much overlooked fact bout the Alpinestars brace: it is not designed to keep your head from rolling back or forward (in other words Dennis, the clearance is purposeful). The ONLY kind of impact the BNS is designed to address is compression of the neck.
so in terms of working with a d2 style helmet, i don't see an issue with compatibility at all. its a different brace than the leatt, designed on different assumptions about what causes catastrophic neck injury. i'd suggest buying one or the other depending on which school of thought you subscribe too, Leatt's or A-star's, NOT on the type of helmet you use.
Alpinestars identified compression as the only form of impact that will likely result in catastrophic neck injury, meaning paralysis or death. In all other forms of impact, they prefer to let your body protect itself through its own natural movement.
“It only comes into play when compression is going to take place, which is the head compressing down toward the torso, or the torso compressing toward the head,” Tim Collins of Alpinestars said. “The way we designed this with the low-swoop neck, low-swoop back, and real thin sidebars is because we want to encourage movement to take place. We want the head to move out of the way of the torso naturally, if possible. Other systems that are out there might have really wide side bars; they may come up higher in the back, or come up higher in the front so that the helmet’s constantly in contact with it regardless of which way the head’s moving. This is really designed contrary to that in that the only time we want it to come into play is compression. Other than that, we want the head to naturally move out of the way because the only time the only time you’re really going to suffer a catastrophic injury – paralysis, death – is at compression.
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Interesting read. Thanks!
Skullcrack posted these links earlier. Skip the cliff notes and take some time to read the whole thing. you won't regret itInteresting read. Thanks!
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3341167&postcount=30
lee, the reason why i said i wouldnt use a smaller helmet with it because George Ryan tried it on and he could not touch the back of the BNS with his helmet. He had a good amount of room, to me this would break his neck.
now i "feel" as if i scorpioned in a crash my helmet would hit the back plate of the BNS and help my neck from breaking.
now if i had the smaller helmet on i feel as if id break my neck; unless i had a leatt on.
i just feel the BNS will do you no justice with a small helmet.
but each to their own right? im comfortable with my set-up and not afraid to crash on my head.
now i "feel" as if i scorpioned in a crash my helmet would hit the back plate of the BNS and help my neck from breaking.
now if i had the smaller helmet on i feel as if id break my neck; unless i had a leatt on.
i just feel the BNS will do you no justice with a small helmet.
but each to their own right? im comfortable with my set-up and not afraid to crash on my head.
Dennis, reread my post and read astar's comments (far more than what I qouted). The brace is not designed with taking rear rotation of your head into consideration. The fact that your moto helmet hits is hapenstance, the fact that GRs didn't is not detrimental given what that brace is designed to do, ie part of a-stars design rational. Their studies determined that you can 'scorpion' until your helmet hits your back and not break anything. Might tear the ****e out of your ligaments though.
So to repeat myself again for anyone else confused, if you subscribe to the idea of protecting only against compression as astar suggests you don't have to wory about your helmet not contacting the rear member as Dennis suggests. It's not factored into the design.
Buy based on what science sits better with your piece of mind NOT the helmet you use.
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I would agree with
There is quite a bit more to that article than simply 'our brace is better. It is well worth the read for anyone thinking about a neck 'protector'.
Quite interesting how Leatt and A* differ so much in the intent, design, and what they each consider to be the 'cause' of cervical spine injuries.
There is quite a bit more to that article than simply 'our brace is better. It is well worth the read for anyone thinking about a neck 'protector'.
Quite interesting how Leatt and A* differ so much in the intent, design, and what they each consider to be the 'cause' of cervical spine injuries.
nah i know what your saying, im not trying to say astars is better blah blah blah but its more comfortable with a MOTO helmet.
not trying to win a medal here on the internet just voicing opinions!!
