its bonedeth
AM jr class is full of sand.
- Thread starter yuroshek
- Start date
How about instead of complaining about it on the internet, why don't you go jump on a stationary bike or start lifting weights to try and beat them, at which point you become a sandbagger. Vicious circle eh?
And Rich, yeah he told me how he has to race in 12-13, thats too bad. Maybe he'll be able to pull an Ulmer and get moved up
And Rich, yeah he told me how he has to race in 12-13, thats too bad. Maybe he'll be able to pull an Ulmer and get moved up
From the Domination Series page:
"Amateur Category
The Amateur Category is designed to increase the level of competition between experienced downhill racers that typically compete in Sport & Expert categories. The top men and women in this category will receive points toward the overall series and high-end product prizes. "
In USA Cycling events ( i.e. Mt Snow) these kids are racing Junior Expert. Therefore they are right where they should be.
They are fast, but they are not pros.
I wasn't there, and can't find results posted anywhere. There were 6 people in the 18 and under class? That's a small field, people choosing not to race makes it even smaller, reducing the odds of more classes being created.
I've known Zach for about 5 years, since before he started racing, and trust me, he'll follow whatever the rulebook says. He shouldn't have to move up based on someone's "opinion". If Diablo, - the promotor - had issues with it, they should have upgrading rules in place at the start of the season. It's their fault, not the participants, if people are unhappy.
"Amateur Category
The Amateur Category is designed to increase the level of competition between experienced downhill racers that typically compete in Sport & Expert categories. The top men and women in this category will receive points toward the overall series and high-end product prizes. "
In USA Cycling events ( i.e. Mt Snow) these kids are racing Junior Expert. Therefore they are right where they should be.
They are fast, but they are not pros.
I wasn't there, and can't find results posted anywhere. There were 6 people in the 18 and under class? That's a small field, people choosing not to race makes it even smaller, reducing the odds of more classes being created.
I've known Zach for about 5 years, since before he started racing, and trust me, he'll follow whatever the rulebook says. He shouldn't have to move up based on someone's "opinion". If Diablo, - the promotor - had issues with it, they should have upgrading rules in place at the start of the season. It's their fault, not the participants, if people are unhappy.
at the end of the day the clock shows your real result. move those guys up and maybe some of you get a prize but you still got beat by several dozen people. instead of trying to stroke your ego set your sights on the fastest pro time and try to get closer to it each time you race, that's how you get better; not by getting to tell your friends that 'I won my class' because you b*tched enough until the people in front of you moved up. you race, you get a time, that's the number that matters and that's the one you should be paying attention to.[/QUOTE]
BRAVO!!! Very well said!!!
BRAVO!!! Very well said!!!
Are we seriously having this conversation?
You know, I saw this topic & decided to click on it just to have a few laughs. But when I realized you were dissing one of the NICEST kids who races *and who's one of my good friends*, yeah... I have a problem with that.
Who cares that he wins all the time? It just says that he's a really good rider. If you don't like it, too bad.
Demo9- get over yourself. Why did you stop riding because he was kicking your a$$? If you were at least a semi-decent person, you'd take that as a challenge. You said yourself each race you'd get a little bit closer. Okay, maybe you wouldn't be able to beat him (I mean, hell, his time & Jurgen's times are always pretty close), but coming in 2nd to a kid like Zach is pretty rewarding & somethin to be proud of.
Why does it matter so much who wins in the races? And even more-so, why are you complaining? It sounds to me like you're being sore-losers.
At least FOXROX & GeneralLee have some brains in their heads & don't mind a little healthy competition.
Zach is one of the nicest people I have ever met at the races at Diablo. His family is ALSO very nice. There's no need to diss a kid who's got more talent in his index-finger than some of these racers have in their whole bodies. And he doesn't JUST race at Diablo, he does races ALL OVER, and everywhere else he races Junior-X... however Diablo doesn't have a Junior-X class.
Get over yourselves. It's a race. And if all you're thinking about is winning, stop being selfish.
You know, I saw this topic & decided to click on it just to have a few laughs. But when I realized you were dissing one of the NICEST kids who races *and who's one of my good friends*, yeah... I have a problem with that.
Who cares that he wins all the time? It just says that he's a really good rider. If you don't like it, too bad.
Demo9- get over yourself. Why did you stop riding because he was kicking your a$$? If you were at least a semi-decent person, you'd take that as a challenge. You said yourself each race you'd get a little bit closer. Okay, maybe you wouldn't be able to beat him (I mean, hell, his time & Jurgen's times are always pretty close), but coming in 2nd to a kid like Zach is pretty rewarding & somethin to be proud of.
Why does it matter so much who wins in the races? And even more-so, why are you complaining? It sounds to me like you're being sore-losers.
At least FOXROX & GeneralLee have some brains in their heads & don't mind a little healthy competition.
Zach is one of the nicest people I have ever met at the races at Diablo. His family is ALSO very nice. There's no need to diss a kid who's got more talent in his index-finger than some of these racers have in their whole bodies. And he doesn't JUST race at Diablo, he does races ALL OVER, and everywhere else he races Junior-X... however Diablo doesn't have a Junior-X class.
Get over yourselves. It's a race. And if all you're thinking about is winning, stop being selfish.
A couple points of interest and fodder. Under traditional amateur athletic guidelines, you cannot be "forced" to turn "professional" level in athletic competition. Athletes have a full legal right to remain amateurs as long as they want. For adults this is largely self policing but for juniors there are many legitimate reasons to remain an amateur and no junior should ever feel pressured to move up in ability levels until they, and their parents, feel they are ready.
A promoter may actually be legally culpable in the event that a rider is "forced" to upgrade to pro and they have an accident and get injured (or injure another rider or spectator). Additionally, I know it has been a concern of riders in some places that if they win prize money (or even compete for it) that they could jeopardize their amateur status in high school athletics or raise concerns about NCAA scholarships in other sports.
Bottom line, it's never "sand bagging" at the junior level.
-ska todd
A promoter may actually be legally culpable in the event that a rider is "forced" to upgrade to pro and they have an accident and get injured (or injure another rider or spectator). Additionally, I know it has been a concern of riders in some places that if they win prize money (or even compete for it) that they could jeopardize their amateur status in high school athletics or raise concerns about NCAA scholarships in other sports.
Bottom line, it's never "sand bagging" at the junior level.
-ska todd
This thread is truly unbelievable.
Zach and Phil are in the Amateur class because they ARE amateur. While they are very talented up-and-coming athletes, and they are VERY consistent, we do not see a need to force them to move-up.
We originally designed the Domination series for this very purpose. The existing race series were filled with abundant classes and competition was stagnant and participation was on the decline. Is there really any glory in winning a sport or expert class with 5 people in it? Does it mean that much to you to go back to your myspace page and your qausi-sponsorhouse sponsors and say woo hoo I won my Sport 17-19 class? Do you feel that this accomplishment is helping you to get faster and become PRO? or helping you to become a pro in your own mind?
While the Norba classes do a good job of giving some racers that glory, we feel it is a false sense of accomplishment and harmful to the progression of the sport, specifically you, the racers.
In summary, Zach and Phil are both stand-up guys and instead of trash-talking them in a public forum, why not speak to them in person and perhaps you'll learn something! ie, why are they faster than you? What are they doing to get faster? Knowing both of them, they will probably love to chat and give some pointers or encouragement! They should be respected and looked-up to for their riding ability and the ability to win racers...instead there are a few of you cutting them down for one simple reason.... they are beating you.
Did you ever consider that if you spent a little less time trashtalking and a little more time training than perhaps you may get faster? How many of you actually train?
Zach and Phil are in the Amateur class because they ARE amateur. While they are very talented up-and-coming athletes, and they are VERY consistent, we do not see a need to force them to move-up.
We originally designed the Domination series for this very purpose. The existing race series were filled with abundant classes and competition was stagnant and participation was on the decline. Is there really any glory in winning a sport or expert class with 5 people in it? Does it mean that much to you to go back to your myspace page and your qausi-sponsorhouse sponsors and say woo hoo I won my Sport 17-19 class? Do you feel that this accomplishment is helping you to get faster and become PRO? or helping you to become a pro in your own mind?
While the Norba classes do a good job of giving some racers that glory, we feel it is a false sense of accomplishment and harmful to the progression of the sport, specifically you, the racers.
In summary, Zach and Phil are both stand-up guys and instead of trash-talking them in a public forum, why not speak to them in person and perhaps you'll learn something! ie, why are they faster than you? What are they doing to get faster? Knowing both of them, they will probably love to chat and give some pointers or encouragement! They should be respected and looked-up to for their riding ability and the ability to win racers...instead there are a few of you cutting them down for one simple reason.... they are beating you.
Did you ever consider that if you spent a little less time trashtalking and a little more time training than perhaps you may get faster? How many of you actually train?
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Keep in mind, this whole thing got kicked up by a completely blatant misuse of the term "sandbagging." If a rider's class was determined based solely on their qualifying time, and that rider intentionally slowed their pace to be classified in a lower rating, only to perform under their full ability in the actual race, THAT is sandbagging.
The issue here seems to be some folks not grasping the concept of an unbelievably talented rider.
The issue here seems to be some folks not grasping the concept of an unbelievably talented rider.
todd does have a very legit point about ncaa and high school athletics, point and case jeremy bloom (form olympic skier) got kicked off the boulder football team for recieving money from sponsors etc i just feel if you've been dominating a class for a few years why not set the bar a little higher for yourself...? not saying that winning amateur is a low bar to achieve but it seems as if they're getting pretty good at reaching it....just my 2 cents
something to note about zach's winning this weekend.... his time beat all of the am's, younger and older. The fastest time of the weekend earns the best prize. It's usually expected to go to the senior group, but lately, the kids have been schooling the older guys.
Seriously, take the time to talk to these "junior" riders. The dedication, discipline and attention they involve in their races is what determines their results.
And... I know of a rider that just started riding this season, raced for the first time this weekend, and placed directly behind a "sponsored rider" in the AM senior category. Some people need to worry less about others and worry more about themselves if they want to be successful.
Seriously, take the time to talk to these "junior" riders. The dedication, discipline and attention they involve in their races is what determines their results.
And... I know of a rider that just started riding this season, raced for the first time this weekend, and placed directly behind a "sponsored rider" in the AM senior category. Some people need to worry less about others and worry more about themselves if they want to be successful.
i didnt STOP RIDING, i was there today, and thrusday im going in for surgery that I GOT RIDING, and ya if racin was free i wouldnt mind, and mayb ur all right mayb im a sore looser
and i have talked to zach, not about this and i can agree that he is pretty nice, he has helped me in a few races
i dont think he is mean i just think that with his skill he should be pushin the envelope and tryin to compete more, i mean im sure even he knows that he is guna win every race he enters (at diablo in AM) and ya mayb if i got second that would be great, but ill be honest i cant afford to race knowing i have absolutely no chance, its nice to know my time and if i am improving but being a pro biker isnt my life and wont be my life, i am no sam hill.
i just think it would be more "mature" to move up, i am done here i have better things to do than flame on the internet (not really) what he does is really up to him and nobody else, i gave up racing there because it would be 300 bucks a year for at least 2 more years b4 i touched his CURRENT TIME, so that is a lost cause for me, and i see alot of u flamin me dont think i am as ****ty a rider as u think, i m not zach but i dont SUCK
im not in AM senior... and i would be in am jr if i raced(or at this point could)
it doesnt make you a bad person yif you dont race. half the time its more fun to freeride and just progress at your own rate. you dont need to defend yourself if your happy . can i get an amen?
amen!!!
when did jim get here???
dont even start
i was just wondering
o well, hey hows it going?
He competes in more races than just Diablo.
Who says you don't have a chance? Everyone has a chance, it's whether or not you wanna work as hard as the next guy to get there.
well i didn't comment on this thread today yet... so here it is.
Just an after-thought, it could be like Whistler where the Wednesday night series only has Mens, Womens, and Juniors.