[muddy beast]

The hikers, horse owners, and conservationist win all the time. I'm not sure as to why, except to say I know they are more organized. It seems we are happy to have a place to ride even if it isn't on the up and up. So, we don't do much to get it on the up and up. Look at PA, Bellingham, Capitol Forest, and Leavenworth. They all work their butts off to keep their riding areas accessible. We'll have to do the same in King County if we are to win against this tide. I've offered before and I'll offer it now. I'll do all the media work at my cost if a group wants to form and get some legal trails for us to ride. I'll make presentations and shoot video that shows our commitment to maintaining the trials. We need organizers and fund raisers, etc. Or we can just drive forever to other peoples trails. There are a lot of good examples around us of what to do. Let's get it done. Peace!

Man, I'm totally with you on that. If not for my local trails *Japanese Gultch* who knows what I'd be doing. I honestly think, as a 16 year old, that riding my bike has kept me away from drugs and drinkings like so many of the people my age. If the trails were to be taken away, I can only ponder how many younger kids (future shredders) would be sucked into a bad addiction rather that a good one on the mountain bike trails. And it only makes sence that we should inform the guys in big chairs of what these trails actually do for all of us, especially the kids, since it seems to affect the public the most.

Anyhow, I also agree with your statement about wanting to start a more gravity fed group. BBTC is great for what their doing, and I completely support them...but us gravity guys need a group that understands us more. (no offense)

 

[Roasted]

From an outsider looking in

1 - Its a shame trails need to be shut down. Sometimes there are good reasons
2 - Why not look to areas that have successful trail building and maintenance for an example of how groups need to be designed and run. Having a FR group, xc/am group split instead of unified also splits your power. Politicians will see working with the "xc group" as a comprimise which is a win for them. If you approach it as a unified front "we all ride our bikes and love our trails" you will have a more effective message to the people who matter (remember you aren't really trying to impress people who care)

1.5 years maybe 2 years ago when trails on the shore were threatened, it took every group of rider involved to go and fight. No one remembered their discipline of riding, they just rode and wanted trail access. Same thing recently happened in another small town in BC (can't remember the name). Whistler and squamish also have area specific unified groups of builders and riders that maintain all trails in their area (worca and sorca).

Splitting it up like is discussed here will never get you very far. I wish you guys the best of luck, trail closures suck.

 

[Skookum]

From an outsider looking in

1 - Its a shame trails need to be shut down. Sometimes there are good reasons
2 - Why not look to areas that have successful trail building and maintenance for an example of how groups need to be designed and run. Having a FR group, xc/am group split instead of unified also splits your power. Politicians will see working with the "xc group" as a comprimise which is a win for them. If you approach it as a unified front "we all ride our bikes and love our trails" you will have a more effective message to the people who matter (remember you aren't really trying to impress people who care)

1.5 years maybe 2 years ago when trails on the shore were threatened, it took every group of rider involved to go and fight. No one remembered their discipline of riding, they just rode and wanted trail access. Same thing recently happened in another small town in BC (can't remember the name). Whistler and squamish also have area specific unified groups of builders and riders that maintain all trails in their area (worca and sorca).

Splitting it up like is discussed here will never get you very far. I wish you guys the best of luck, trail closures suck.

Thanks for the comments man. If some of the people who are all gung-ho would just join the ranks of the club, the foundation is already in place to build a house (vision of how you want to see FR trails) that you would want to see realized. Instead it sounds like you have months and years of work to develop the groundwork that's already been established?

For what it's worth if it get's off the ground i'll join and be supportive. But if this is really for real i wouldn't be surprised to see it eventually merge with BBTC anyways years down the road, as most people who mountain bike all want to see better opportunities for all of us, and there are bigger well established org's out there that have, can, and will bully us around as a user group.

Don't look at the differences, start looking at the similarities.

 

[Bullitrider]

Just barge into Greg Nickels office, slam your fist on his desk and demand more lips and trannies. He will know what you're talking about!

 

[Skookum]

Just barge into Greg Nickels office, slam your fist on his desk and demand more lips and trannies. He will know what you're talking about!

:biggrin:

 

[largextracheese]

Just barge into Greg Nickels office, slam your fist on his desk and demand more lips and trannies. He will know what you're talking about!

That is one of the finniest things I've read in awhile! Bwahahahaaaaa!!
Nice one bro!

 

[SeaPig]

From an outsider looking in

1 - Its a shame trails need to be shut down. Sometimes there are good reasons
2 - Why not look to areas that have successful trail building and maintenance for an example of how groups need to be designed and run. Having a FR group, xc/am group split instead of unified also splits your power. Politicians will see working with the "xc group" as a comprimise which is a win for them. If you approach it as a unified front "we all ride our bikes and love our trails" you will have a more effective message to the people who matter (remember you aren't really trying to impress people who care)

1.5 years maybe 2 years ago when trails on the shore were threatened, it took every group of rider involved to go and fight. No one remembered their discipline of riding, they just rode and wanted trail access. Same thing recently happened in another small town in BC (can't remember the name). Whistler and squamish also have area specific unified groups of builders and riders that maintain all trails in their area (worca and sorca).

Splitting it up like is discussed here will never get you very far. I wish you guys the best of luck, trail closures suck.

With all respect I do think you are missing the point here. It's much more complicated then having the FR and Downhill riders (which have really very different needs then the XC and even All Mountain riders) join a club. Most of the Trails that we are talking about don't exist within or even near a XC network that is also under attack. In cases like that it would be right to join and share the burden.

There are FR and Downhill trails around the state, on private, DNR, and Forest Service land that are accepted and allowed by the powers to be. However, the area in question and under attack is in King County mainly. Here we continue to loose and have our FR, Dirt Jump and Downhill areas under siege, while there are thriving XC trials. Just last month some FR type elements on a known XC system were sabotaged. Ironically, one feature helped riders avoid a wetland area. The local XC clubs do a good job supporting their cause, but our stuff keeps disappearing or being posted.... So is it so wrong then to think that we have to fight our fight alone. If just one battle had been won for us by those clubs we may have felt confident that joining them would accomplish the goal, but in five years ( I was a member of BBTC back then) I haven't seen it. So, yeah I want to put my effort and support elsewhere while maintaining that clubs like BBTC do a great job for their members and that we all need to work together and get along, but not be of the same club.

Right now one has to travel from Seattle for about 2 hours to find and legal FR or Downhill course. That has to change.

 

[redFoxx]

I don't see a FR org as being in the fight alone. As one who is a member of BBTC as well as several of my FR/DH friends, I don't see this as defecting from the main club. As was pointed out BBTC is stretched thin, they can only do so much. They are not the enemy, they are us. With a standalone org though I think we'll be taken more seriously as in, it's legitimate to have stunts on the trails. I see us as partnering with BBTC and using their political clout to help us along. Not a schism but an organism of mountain bike riders with different arms...

 

[geargrrl]

if you can figure out how to work with an existing organization ---- this has the potential to save you numerous headaches, include just getting set up, getting non-profit status into place (that's how you get free $$ to build things) getting established and recognized, finding insurance yadayada. You'd be fooling yourself if you think you can get by without being officially organized.

 

[seand]

So our trail survived...or so I thought. I just took a walk down there with my camera only to be greeted by a parks/rec dude who was...not looking pleased to be taking out all our work.

At least he is one person so he can appreciate how much work we put in moving all those rocks and dirt.

I will wander back after I think he is done destroying all the hard work and snap some shots. I should have some before shots floating around so a before/after can be posted.

Hopefully the homeless problems don't arise again, but there is nothing in there to keep that from happening. Tax dollars put to amazing use as I type this.

Man this urks me...

 

[redFoxx]

if you can figure out how to work with an existing organization ---- this has the potential to save you numerous headaches, include just getting set up, getting non-profit status into place (that's how you get free $$ to build things) getting established and recognized, finding insurance yadayada. You'd be fooling yourself if you think you can get by without being officially organized.

Maybe Justin(Juice) of BBTC can step in here but I don't think BBTC would be opposed to us organizing a FR club and using them for guidance and partnership.

 

[Borneo]

I hate beating dead horses but if you look back a bit someone already posted that they felt blown off by Justin and Jon concerning this area and issue. Communication is key. As always.
I'm no DH guy but I enjoy it just as much as FR, AM, XC or any other "version" of riding my bike(s) and would concur that there is strength in numbers that would outweigh veering off on a singular mission.

It is probably worth going directly to the source that had that posting put out there and the parks schelp un-doing your work. Find out where things went wrong, who ok'd the work in the first place and did they even have the power to do so? Things like that. This will take soem leg work and won't be as fun as "just building" but it's a necessary evil if you want your work to stay around.

 

[seand]

I hate beating dead horses but if you look back a bit someone already posted that they felt blown off by Justin and Jon concerning this area and issue. Communication is key. As always.
I'm no DH guy but I enjoy it just as much as FR, AM, XC or any other "version" of riding my bike(s) and would concur that there is strength in numbers that would outweigh veering off on a singular mission.

It is probably worth going directly to the source that had that posting put out there and the parks schelp un-doing your work. Find out where things went wrong, who ok'd the work in the first place and did they even have the power to do so? Things like that. This will take soem leg work and won't be as fun as "just building" but it's a necessary evil if you want your work to stay around.

I have already called the posted number and requested some information regarding the events that transpired. I have zero interest in rebuilding that trail as it took FOREVER to rock-armor the hillside and build ravine bridges. it would be nice, however, to not have this happen again.

 

[carbuncle]

Sorry to hear that Sean, I know how much time you spent on that. Look at this way, though: at least people will have easy access to a spot for dumping bodies, household waste and old cars again, and the homeless will have some level places to set up their tarps! It boggles the mind...

 

[seand]

Sorry to hear that Sean, I know how much time you spent on that. Look at this way, though: at least people will have easy access to a spot for dumping bodies, household waste and old cars again, and the homeless will have some level places to set up their tarps! It boggles the mind...

Here is the best part.

I asked the dude if he could leave the lumber when he was done. I can't even begin to explain the look he gave me!

 

[cm16white]

sorry to hear sean

 

[Skookum]

To anyone serious about starting a new club or anyone who wants help pave the way for more advanced trails here is an opportunity to network, learn, and ride while you're there. Dry Hill is a fun place to go for those who haven't been, exactly the type of trail system like Colonnade and Beacon Hill in Spokane that's going to pave the way for more opportunities.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183909

 

[seand]

I did not get a chance to get down and take post-mortem shots of the trail as I was in Kamlooops/Vernon Thurs->yesterday. I will hopefully get down there today.

Oddly enough, I have yet to hear back from anyone at the city regarding the demolition of the trails. I guess that isn't odd at all....

 

[Certified Drunk]

Write up in todays paper about the Duwamish greenbelt.
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=nwwnaturalwanders23&date=20070823&query=duwamish+greenbelt

 

[Skookum]

For freeride to be succesful you have to be a hippy and pretend you're actually making a difference by planting a tree on that hill. (When in reality the true ecological nightmare of the Duwamish flood plain will never be undone).

So in other words, build there again but plant a tree everytime you ride, and things will be cool. Make it cedar so the next generation can chop it down and make a killer log ride out of it....

i'm kidding sorta...