[unskilled]

just curious to see if anyone has a picture or knows if any pro's are running air shocks. I'm between going air or coil on a future am-fr build and just spiked my curiousity. I see the norco has an air shock on their main dh bike, didn't know if the trend was continuing elsewhere.

 

[ROTFLMAO]

I am no pro but I have been running a Manitou Evolver air shock on my Morewood Izimu and I really like it. It does feel different than a coil but not in a bad way. I LOVE the adjust ability. Being able to easily adjust the pressure for different terrain is awesome.

 

[Sunday_MikeG]

Didn't Duncan Riffle run an DHX Air on his Sunday on some races?

 

[General Lee]

other than at Sea Otter no pro of any real standing has raced with an air shock in years. seemed like there were a bunch being tested in '05-06 but that's about as far as it got. there was a Dirt article last spring about the blockbox program testing air shocks on peaty's v10 and how they were trying to address some of the problems inherent with using them on a dh bike.

 

[spliffy]

I ran one of the first dhx 5.0 air shocks in my m3 back in 05. It was ok for some courses but it did pack out on higher speed big hit courses. For most riders who are above 150-170 pounds it does not make sense unless you have both to swap out for different stuff. And to be honest a dhx coil with ti spring realy is not that much heayer than the air shock in the same length. There are still some protos in the works from almost all three big manifactures right now, but its been a battle to get the small bump compliance the same to a coil.

 

[jerseydirt]

well if you give me an air shock, I would be a pro riding an airshock.

YEAH I rreached 1000 posts! woot!

 

[Trekrules]

I think Bryn Atkinson rode the new GT carbon bike with a air shock

 

[iRider]

At the Willingen WC a bunch of the Mojo guys and Kovarik on the Socom proto were running air shocks.
There is a Maxxis ad where Sam has an air shock in his Sunday. Quite a few years old though.
Udi uses a DHX Air. Not Pro, but close

 

[Commencal-guy]

other than at Sea Otter no pro of any real standing has raced with an air shock in years. seemed like there were a bunch being tested in '05-06 but that's about as far as it got. there was a Dirt article last spring about the blockbox program testing air shocks on peaty's v10 and how they were trying to address some of the problems inherent with using them on a dh bike.

Yeah, my friend who attends at Colorado Boulder said he saw a Vivid air shock mounted on a Glory. He said the Air volume on the shock was huggeeee

I guess the guy worked for Sram, in the blackbox department and also had the new Boxxer wc's

 

[marshalolson]

yeah the new vivid air is the size of a beer can and feels nice :rumor mill:

 

[iRider]

Pics?

Hopefully it has MOAR SHIMZ than the DHX Air.

 

[RayB]

When Cody Warren was on Foes, he rode one of these around with the Curnutt Air

as well as their DHS with an air shock:

Not sure how much this helps you in figuring out what shock to use on your bike........................

 

[Bulldog]

And to be honest a dhx coil with ti spring realy is not that much heayer than the air shock in the same length.

You would need a great explanation of "not that much" for me not to call BS.

 

[General Lee]

You would need a great explanation of "not that much" for me not to call BS.

how about not enough to matter or not enough to give up performance. with all the obsession of getting bikes under 40lb it's interesting to note that a good many factory bikes are in the 42 lb range. when peaty was asked what's more important, performance or weight, he said performance without a doubt.

having held both a dhx air and a dhx w/ a ti coil in my hand i'd say the difference is "not that much." from what i've heard the same can't be said for the difference in performance.

a rear air shock that works as well as a boxxer wc would be fantastic if they figure out how to do it. if they do, i wonder if they'll charge $400 more for a schrader valve and a couple of o-rings like they do with the forks. lthumbsdown:

 

[William42]

I see the norco has an air shock on their main dh bike, didn't know if the trend was continuing elsewhere.

Cdale also appears to be doing that maybe? They're picturing a DHX 5 coil, but the frame specs is listed as a DHX 5 Air.

I also noticed several riders in the pro class I saw on freecaster were running air shocks for St. Anne.. (although none of the truly top guys were, these were guys that were pulling top 40-70), and the same for Bromont. It makes me wonder if its a regional thing - "oh look that guy has an airshock, I'm gonna try one" deal.

 

[Bulldog]

how about not enough to matter or not enough to give up performance.

LOL. On this forum every 0.1 degree of head angle, every millimeter of BB height, and every gram of bike weight matters. Not that I agree with it, but you're in the wrong place to argue against it.

 

[no skid marks]

I'd like to see an air sprung shock developed with a coil spring to support mid and end stroke. This way you could run the air pressure soft enough to gain small bump sensativity, but have the coil spring to support the mid stroke where air shocks seem to blast through the travel, possibly a coil spring with tighter windings for 2/3rds of it.
For the time, the old Stratos air/coil shocks were okay.
Or possibly just a two stage air shock with two air chambers, possibly a telescopic design with the chambers overlapping.
Or just design a bike and shock together to address mid sroke issues and possible small chamber over heating issues.
Anyone run a Two Stage(double shock) bike with two air shocks?
Bit tanked, it's X-Mas, go easy on me

 

[Udi]

I've been running one in a sunday for a few years now and it has been pretty good. There's a ~260g saving over a titanium sprung coil shock, and costs less. So you've either got a lighter bike, and/or weight and money to spend on other areas of the bike - eg. better brakes, wider bars, etc.

They are pretty sensitive to a frame's shock curve though, tried one yesterday on a friend's FSR bike and the midstroke springrate falloff is pretty evident. I didn't really like it. Feels fairly linear in the sunday to me though, and I think running the largest size (highest volume) i.e. 9.5x3.0 helps with that too.

The only real loss (at least in my case) is a marginal increase in stiction vs. a coil, thanks to an extra seal and wiper. It's something you can notice in the push test as the shock changes direction. Significant difference in times? Probably not... I'm no pro but I'd like to think I can put together reasonable race runs, and changing from coil to air didn't change much to my knowledge.

 

[no skid marks]

Yeah I've also noticed the stiction is noticable when pushing on it, but once riding it is overcome and not toticable, possibly even becomes a minor damping advantage.

 

[NY_Star]

It is going to be very hard to get rid of the Friction problem just because that is the nature if a air shock. There is a lot more surface area on a air shock then a coil shock. A coil shock you have your 12mm shaft with a piston on it and an IFP in the Reze. On an air shock you have all of the some components and a 1" shaft with bushings and quad rings, all super sized. This has much more surface area and more friction.

A shock company we work with at work is getting into the air shock business. (Custom Axis). They make the highest quality shocks in the industry. To make an air shock they take there normal spring shock and add a tube on the outside of it to make it an air spring shock.

 

[mrpercussive]

this thread sparks my curiosity once again... mannnn........

 

[no skid marks]

A shock company we work with at work is getting into the air shock business. (Custom Axis). They make the highest quality shocks in the industry. To make an air shock they take there normal spring shock and add a tube on the outside of it to make it an air spring shock.

That's basicly how they all do it. Ay new player with new ideas is good news though.

 

[Udi]

On an air shock you have all of the some components but instead of a 12 mm Shaft you have a 1" shaft with bushings and quad rings all super sized. This has much more surface area and more friction

Actually you're wrong, an air shock still runs a 1/2" damper shaft and associated seal/bushing, just like a coil shock. There are no extra bushings. There is also no wiper on this damper shaft, as there is no need. Instead, you have a single xring pressure seal for the air can, another xring seal internally to separate neg/pos chambers, and a single wiper.

 

[NY_Star]

Actually you're wrong, an air shock still runs a 1/2" damper shaft and associated seal/bushing, just like a coil shock. There are no extra bushings. There is also no wiper on this damper shaft, as there is no need. Instead, you have a single xring pressure seal for the air can, another xring seal internally to separate neg/pos chambers, and a single wiper.

The air shocks that i have worked on have a busing just behind the dust seat. If there was no busing it would not work for very long. These are Fox Floats. Yes there is not dust wiper on the main shaft but there is still an oil seal, and shaft bushing.

 

[Udi]

Why wouldn't it work very long? Coil shocks use one bushing for the shaft only, and that is adequate support. There's nothing different about the air shock, the air component is just the equivalent of a coil spring, and the 1/2" damper bushing will keep everything lined up. Same story in a boxxer, the air spring cartridge has no bushing, and relies purely on the primary stanchion bushing - and works just fine.

There's no bushing behind dust wiper seat on any mainstream air shock I've seen. I'd say you're mistaken and thinking of the "backup rings" that are used to ensure xrings/orings hold their profile under pressure. They are white on fox shocks.

 

[NY_Star]

The are still forces put on the air canister. An quad-or-x-ring seal will not stand up to being used as a bushing for very long. Oh well

 

[Udi]

It's NOT being used as a bushing. Those loads are taken care of by the damper shaft bushing, there is no need for an extra layer of redundancy. Can you not comprehend that?

 

[NY_Star]

We will stop our argument here.

 

[big cal]

We will stop our argument here.

Awesome, I wish that line was used more often for the ridiculous amount of nonsensical arguments on here...

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Awesome, I wish that line was used more often for the ridiculous amount of nonsensical arguments on here...

Not me, i think you're completely off here jerk!:biggrin:






.

 

[Transcend]

The air can on a Float has a bushing, a wiper and a seal. The shaft then has an oil seal, bushing etc. I'm pretty sure this is clearly outlined even on the consumer air sleeve maintenance card? You can buy all of these parts in a small kit, as I am sure you know.

Why on earth would you say it doesn't have a bushing?

That "backup ring" as you call it, is a bushing. It is labeled "air sleeve bearing" (or was as of 3-4 years ago).

 

[Udi]

No, it doesn't.
The "backup ring" as I called it, is a "backup ring". They mislabeled it in the picture I believe, because they refer to it as a "backup ring" throughout the text. I'd like to see you squeezing a shock bushing "like a potato chip".

 

[Udi]

Just in case anyone else wants to debate my correctness, read up first.

Wikipedia: Backup Ring
Fox Air Sleeve Maintenance Guide

You don't need an engineering degree to figure this one out, if you look at the diagram you can clearly see that the parts [incorrectly labeled] air sleeve bearing sit directly against the surface of the seal. Hint: bushings don't use seals as a seats! All those components do is prevent seal deformation, as I already explained in post #25.

Anyone else want in on the action?
I RM.

 

[William42]

Anyone else want in on the action?
I RM.

You're still wrong

 

[al-irl]

I'm with Udi i would never have thought of those white plastic bits that sandwich the air sleeve seal as bushings. There's no way there big enough or tough enough to act as bushings. I always assumed they help retain the seal.

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Sorry but while your slightly on topic has anyone ever shortened the eye to eye and stroke on a Fox Float shock? I'm actually blue in the face from searching!

 

[General Lee]

Sorry but while your slightly on topic has anyone ever shortened the eye to eye and stroke on a Fox Float shock? I'm actually blue in the face from searching!

no, but it's something i plan on doing to the shock on my trail bike if i can. just haven't gotten around to taking in apart yet. on some shocks it's as simple as using a thicker top-out stop/bumper but i haven't seen the inside of a float yet.

maybe that will be my project this afternoon.

 

[monkeyfcuker]

I'd be very grateful if you could let me know how you get on, currently eyeing up my trail bike with a view messing with the geo on it and reducing travel.

Thanks a ton!

 

[sethimus]

http://www.2stagebikes.com/cs/Services.asp?type=6 <-- these riders should use 2 air shocks...