I have a Session on order, but want to hear more about the Socom. I also am a little worried about these sessions that are denting so easily. Just looking for feedback to see if it's worthwhile to back out of the session and go into a socom. I do like the geometry of the session, and would like to hear comments on the socom in terms of geometry. I know I can look on the sites, but it is not the same. Thanks for your help.
Anyone have time on a Session and a Socom???
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If you are looking for something that doesn't dent as easily then don't look at the Socom, the downtube is know to dent when hung over the tailgate of a truck and treated to a rough shuttle ride.....
Would you pay the same for a Corvette (actually more msrp) as you would a Ferrari?
I'm not worried about the price. I just want to know if anyone has experience on both of these bikes.
I've ridden a Socom for a few seasons. It's still going strong. Don't buy into the 'For Racing Only' hype. It's as strong as anything else that is meant for downhilling and not hucks to flat. It's a little flexy in the rear end, but it's not something that I notice while I'm actually riding the bike.
I would definitely recommend getting the Slacker drop-outs and a 150mm rear axle. I use a Truvativ Howitzer 56mm bb and Holzfeller OCT 170mm cranks with a perfect chainline. I've not ridden a bike with 165mm cranks, but I think that I would have bought them if the Holzfellers were available in that length.
With the Slackers, my bike has the same geometry specs as what Competitive Cyclist has listed for their medium M6, except with 1/4-1/2" higher bb depending on tires and where the fork is positioned in the crowns, and also the shorter head tube of the Socom.
What a ridiculous analogy.
There is nothing Ferrari about Intense. Have you had a good look at the tubeset on the 88? It's vastly more advanced than anything Intense has produced. Plus the geometry on the Trek is pretty much perfect and the suspension (with the modded DHX) is infinitely better than the VPP marketing suspension system.
ridiculous eh?
I was looking at the '09 socom with a 150mm rear. Is the '09 spec'd with the slackers? It appears that the HA is 1 degree slacker than the older ones (65.5 vs. 66.5). I hear also that the socom's suspesion feels a bit funny, as if there is no mid range. I hate buying into interweb speculation.
After seeing a couple intense frames come with crooked rear ends, I gave up on intense. If you absolutely have to get an Intense, put a wheel in the frame to make sure its straight.
I haven't properly ridden a Socom but I've had a go on an Uzzi XVP and it felt like it had 5" of badly engineered VPP. The Trek by contrast feels like a very good linkage activated single pivot. Plus the build quality that I've seen on Intense frames is pretty bad (as mentioned above).
sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me. infinitely better? come on.
I just find it annoying that people masturbate their eyes out all day over Intense bikes just because they've got this reputation for amazingly handbuilt and well designed bikes when they are anything but. A Santa Cruz or a Yeti are much more deserving of that reputation IMO.
Hehe... it's still just a Trek... kind of like the Corvette is still just a Chebby.
Now that's not to say that the Trek isn't good. If I was buying a new DH bike and it wasn't an M6 or Socom, I'd get the Session, and if I was buying an all-mountain bike and it wasn't the Slopestyle or new Uzzi VP or Tracer VP, I'd get the Remedy.
Of course I'm a bit biased since I ride Intense, however I'm not the one with a Session in the classifieds.
Now that's not to say that the Trek isn't good. If I was buying a new DH bike and it wasn't an M6 or Socom, I'd get the Session, and if I was buying an all-mountain bike and it wasn't the Slopestyle or new Uzzi VP or Tracer VP, I'd get the Remedy.
Of course I'm a bit biased since I ride Intense, however I'm not the one with a Session in the classifieds.
Wanna do a deal
Wo dude no offense but it seems you need a good reality check.
Trek, as a company and their product as well is way better than Intense.They make some of the finest ROAD bikes money can buy for a starter and the design as well as the craftsmaship of their high end MTB is A-1.A good notch above Intense.
I'll admit their lower, entry level bikes can be pretty crappy just like the old Testarossa was a piece of junk...
By the way you should download the last episode of TopSpeed where they test the new Corvette, according to the test pilot it seriously kicks a Ferrari ass...and that was coming from an European dude who typically hates American muscle cars...Have you driven both cars lately?
Back to Topic,I love my Session, had for 3 months beat the crap out of it tossing it in the back of my truck with other bikes and it is still dent free.Actually it looks better than any of my Specialized Demo I used to have after 3 months of abuse which I thought was one of the most solid bike.
I could on for hours on the bike but there's lots of reviews you can find online.
I rode a Socom once,very briefly and I hated it.The worst parts of it was certainly the geometry.Completly wrong IMO.My Demo at that time ( last summer) felt much better and if you'd ask me today compare to my Session the Demo felt like a turd.. ;-)
How long does Trek have a decent DH bike? How many top performing DH bikes did they build? I don't care about their road bikes, this is the DH board!
Intense has been on top of the DH game for the whole time. Sometimes there were bikes that outperformed Intense, but they always had top level chassis. Heck, many people still rock old M1s competitively.
Not arguing about the fact that the Trek looks like a very good bike, but buying some positive feedback in mags and creating a hype around a bike doesn't make it the ultimate IMO. Lets see how it performs in the hands of people who buy their stuff. The Socom has already proven this.
Trek only started making a decent mountain bike last year with the redesigned remedy and ABP. But, lucky for them, they now make a really nice bike, except the 2008 Remedies are seeing some cracking in the rear seat stays above the disc brake mount. This has been changed for the 2009 version of the Remedy, and I would think that the Session would be okay. We will just have to wait and see if the light weight Session turns out to be as durable as the Socom.
Fuel EX, not the Remedy, is the model that had issues with the crack by the disk brake mount. It was corrected on the later 2008 models.
Alright perhaps I misunderstood ????? comment about Trek.
Intense has a long history on the DH scene I'll give you that but so does Trek BTW , maybe not as predominant with their DH bikes but still.
They had a pretty dope bike in the early 90" cant remember the name but it was pretty revolutionary back then with a "Y" shape design I also remember the days of Trek VW which was one of the biggest MTB team at the time.Im sure there's probably other thing I forgot aver the time.
Look at what Specialized done as well.They pretty much only had the Palmer bike in the late 90" , then not much as far as DH racing goes.Would you consider them the Dodge of this industry?
My point is, when you look at both company (left aside the history of them which is a bit irrelevant to PPPPP comment) the latest Intense bikes Ive seen were good product but far from being the ULTIMATE.Im aware Jeff and his bikes have done a lot for this industry but they havent done anything out of the ordinary recently and every new bikes they release always has a little something wrong on them (ei:geo, suspension,PRICE...)
Trek on the other hand over the last few years have came up with well made, clean lines and brilliant design bikes.Personally I wouldn't say Intense is FAR ahead of Trek in terms of an overall company.
Actually IMO, I think Trek is a bit ahead of them and certainly wouldnt compare them to Chevy versus a fancy Italian car manufacturer.
whats wrong with m6 geo? I think its the sweetest geo I've ever ridden. Its full on race. If you want a higher steeper bike because you're riding slow speed, there are plenty of other options out there. The m3 was rad too, and so was the m1.
Anyway, company v company comparisons bore me. Talk about biased from all sides.
Anyway, company v company comparisons bore me. Talk about biased from all sides.
We're talking about the Socom. The M6 is a boat anchor.
This is so funny lets look at this Trek major success is from there super uber marketing its really like fast food not to mention every brand has had its faults but lets also look at it like this im pretty sure its just they way you like the bike to feel. But when I see Intense v.s. Trek of course the average reader is going to probaly pick the trek cause its more eye candy than the intense bikes and thats due to there ability to throw money everywhere to promote the bike and make it look like the sweetest thing to come out, where intense is small company runned by a small crew its obvious this thread is complete doo doo cause just ride what you like.
Holy smokes. Clean up your spelling, learn a few metaphors, and you could put Cormac McCarthy out of business as World's Biggest Hater of Punctuation.
Hahaha for sure my expertise is not grammar by any means always had troubles with it but thanks for the insult.
wtf hahaha.
I think you're right. I must've gotten it confused with this one.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4772353&page=2
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=496941
That's good though. It puts me more back into the market for a 2008 Remedy.
Old Trek DH bikes were never realeased to the public besides the Diesel, which was crazy expensive!
Talking about Specialized: can you remember when Palmer rode a custom Speci DH bike into a pool at the press release just to show he hated it? And his later racebikes were M1 carbon copies. But they have come a long way, I''ll admit that.
What I don't see with both companies is that they produce in Taiwan, have the economy of scale and their frames (not complete bikes) are still not cheaper than a made in the US, pick your color Intense.
I am not saying that Intense is the ultimate, but they have a top contender (like they always do) and a track record to back it up. Also Jeff is helping out a lot of racers (JD, Houseman....) that would be without a ride in 09. A bonus in my eyes. Intense has the racing heritage, Trek's image is mainly moms and pops bikes, Lance, VW XC team and yes, some downhill too. So the comparison with car companies is not that far off IMO. One brand with expensive, high end toys only, other brand that caters to the mass market and has some high end stuff for image purposes.
Back to the Session vs. Socom: all I am trying to point out is that the Socom has proven itself in the hands of privateers, the Session has to pass the test of time yet. I hope it will, because every additional brand into DH makes for more exciting racing and more options to chose from.
I'm just looking to see if anyone has ride time on either one of the bikes. I've owned M1's like 10 years ago. They were 1-2 season bikes then, and probably still are, but the Socom fits the spec i'm looking for (8" design that can take a 150mm hub). If a demo had 150mm spacing, or the session did not have a huge backorder, this would be a non issue.
In reply to the question.
The Socom is a wicked frame, I live on the East Coast of Canada and its pretty much perfect for my average riding. However ive been to a few spots, Like Mont St Anne wher I wish I had something a bit beefier.
Ive never had time on the Trek sorry.
The Socom is a wicked frame, I live on the East Coast of Canada and its pretty much perfect for my average riding. However ive been to a few spots, Like Mont St Anne wher I wish I had something a bit beefier.
Ive never had time on the Trek sorry.
So so far there doesnt seem to be many genuine experiences on a session.
Ive had mine for 6 months, and believe me when i say, it rides AMAZINGLY.
Sadly, they really have made them too thin, mines got some serious denting and im hoping for a replacement from trek this week. they accelerate like a dragster, do exactly what you want them to and corner beautifally, but you are paying a price of less durability, but then, your other option is a socom, so i presume that you dont wreck frames much?
Anyhow, ill be on a Solid mission 9 within 3 weeks hopefully, running new alpine linkages so make it raccerrboi. fact is, these racelight frames are great, if you can afford them breaking.
Ive had mine for 6 months, and believe me when i say, it rides AMAZINGLY.
Sadly, they really have made them too thin, mines got some serious denting and im hoping for a replacement from trek this week. they accelerate like a dragster, do exactly what you want them to and corner beautifally, but you are paying a price of less durability, but then, your other option is a socom, so i presume that you dont wreck frames much?
Anyhow, ill be on a Solid mission 9 within 3 weeks hopefully, running new alpine linkages so make it raccerrboi. fact is, these racelight frames are great, if you can afford them breaking.