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Are top of the line bikes going way out of price?

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Chunky Munkey

Herpes!
May 10, 2006
447
0
is ALWAYS key I say...
Okay I was looking into a possible new bike with major travel on it. And after looking at the prices I thought, are bike prices going WAY off the deep end and becoming unreasonable? Like Lee Iacocca buying Lamborghini and redesigning the exterior of the Countach and renaming it a Diablo, with the SAME motor and suspension and raising the price tag from $150,000 to $250,000 a year later just for the exterior change that looks cooler... Corvettes are no different...

So are the bike manufacturers who are getting all the bolt on parts like Shimano, etc overseas from cheap labor, ARE they charging way too much for top of the line bikes on their menu today?

We're talking mass production of frames with some companies, yes some are hand made but aren't ALL frames made by hand in some way or another when cut and welded together via a machine shop?

And to ask for example $3200 for a Trek Session 10 or Randall Scott $4,600 or an Intense M3 for $6,000 dollars or over!? I mean c'mon you got to be kidding me!

A Honda CR 125 runs $5000 and a CR-250 runs $5500 with a motor that does 70mph in a couple seconds, has a TEN times better forks and shocks, with ten times better travel, has a LOT more time put into it in production and has components that would cost a HELL of a lot more than ANY mountainbike, so I ask you, aren't bike manufacturers getting a little bit out of touch with reality when they ask $3200 to $6500 or a mountainbike?

Please, post opinions. It's a dicussion, not a bitch rant post so be constructive. I really want to know, is it all just profit greed or justification of the cost. I mean even shipping a Jap bike to American is included in the cost so why the huge bike price tag over the past few years in hikes to exhorbitant prices that make it a joke to buy a bike when you can buy a motocross bike and have twice as much fun and jump a hell of a lot farther and higher.

Does anyone see my point and agree?
 

robdamanii

OMG! <3 Tom Brady!
May 2, 2005
10,677
0
Out of my mind, back in a moment.
Motorcycles can afford lower prices d/t sales volume. The bike industry doesn't hit that volume, not in anyone's dreams.

Things like the Scott Ransom, M3, etc etc really are more for the "connisseur" of the biking world. Same goes for some of those outrageous road rigs (6Gs for an Onix, $7,500 for an SSLx, ad nauseum) that are on the market nowadays.

They're designed for people to drool over and wish for. They also have a little mystique to them too. "Oh, this one is very similar to XXX, but it's got a few different components on it which lowers the cost quite a bit".

All in my opinion and observation, of course.
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
jonKranked said:
motocross has higher production numbers than high end DH bikes.
a few years back when i was builing up my DH9.
a buddy of mine went down and bought a YZ460.

he spent just a few hundred more for that motorcycle than i did to build my bike.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
If you can't afford the bike, get a better job or STFU. There is no evil conspiracy, and no one in the bike industry is making big money.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
I hear ya man!!!

I bought in the last 12 months;

Speedgoat Asylum Racer-X with top of the line blingage: $5k
Titus Ti/carbon Exo Racer-X with top of th line blingage: $6k
Single Speed with aforementioned blingage valued at over $4k

So yes... top of the line bikes are $pendy indeed!!!
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,101
1,153
NC
No, I don't agree.

You are buying at the absolute bleeding edge of the sport. This is very unlike, say, motocross bikes. With motocross bikes, the bike a pro is riding is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in development and showcases technology that simply cannot be bought for any amount of money.

For $5k, you can ride the exact same bike Sam Hill rode to a world cup championship. For a (relatively) affordable price, you can buy everything that Ned Overend had on his uber light XC bike. For a few hundred dollars you can buy the bleeding edge in crank technology from Shimano. These things are simply not available in many other sports.

The fact is, for $250 you can have an extremely capable, durable hardtail from your LBS. Just because you're looking to spend at the top 10-15% doesn't mean they're overpriced :)
 

lovebunny

can i lick your balls?
Dec 14, 2003
7,310
209
San Diego, California, United States
Chunky Munkey said:
Okay I was looking into a possible new bike with major travel on it. And after looking at the prices I thought, are bike prices going WAY off the deep end and becoming unreasonable? Like Lee Iacocca buying Lamborghini and redesigning the exterior of the Countach and renaming it a Diablo, with the SAME motor and suspension and raising the price tag from $150,000 to $250,000 a year later just for the exterior change that looks cooler... Corvettes are no different...

So are the bike manufacturers who are getting all the bolt on parts like Shimano, etc overseas from cheap labor, ARE they charging way too much for top of the line bikes on their menu today?

We're talking mass production of frames with some companies, yes some are hand made but aren't ALL frames made by hand in some way or another when cut and welded together via a machine shop?

And to ask for example $3200 for a Trek Session 10 or Randall Scott $4,600 or an Intense M3 for $6,000 dollars or over!? I mean c'mon you got to be kidding me!

A Honda CR 125 runs $5000 and a CR-250 runs $5500 with a motor that does 70mph in a couple seconds, has a TEN times better forks and shocks, with ten times better travel, has a LOT more time put into it in production and has components that would cost a HELL of a lot more than ANY mountainbike, so I ask you, aren't bike manufacturers getting a little bit out of touch with reality when they ask $3200 to $6500 or a mountainbike?

Please, post opinions. It's a dicussion, not a bitch rant post so be constructive. I really want to know, is it all just profit greed or justification of the cost. I mean even shipping a Jap bike to American is included in the cost so why the huge bike price tag over the past few years in hikes to exhorbitant prices that make it a joke to buy a bike when you can buy a motocross bike and have twice as much fun and jump a hell of a lot farther and higher.

Does anyone see my point and agree?
and actually the shock and suspension tech on a dh bike is more advanced than on a moto. this is because dirtbikes weigh 200+ lbs and there motor isnt constantly activating the suspension like on a bike. so on a bike the suspention has to be able to ounter the forces the rider puts on it when there pedaling and still absorb bumbs. so alot of what you are paying for is the R&D going into those designs.
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
Zark said:
no one in the bike industry is making big money.
What the heck does that mean.???..I would bet a couple bucks the CEO of Cannondale,Kona,and a few others are making some $$$$...but either you pay the money for the bike you want or you don't...
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
N8 said:
I hear ya man!!!

I bought in the last 12 months;

Speedgoat Asylum Racer-X with top of the line blingage: $5k
Titus Ti/carbon Exo Racer-X with top of th line blingage: $6k
Single Speed with aforementioned blingage valued at over $4k

So yes... top of the line bikes are $pendy indeed!!!
dam...n8 if you are ever hirring helpers let me know....
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
lovebunny said:
and actually the shock and suspension tech on a dh bike is more advanced than on a moto. this is because dirtbikes weigh 200+ lbs and there motor isnt constantly activating the suspension like on a bike. so on a bike the suspention has to be able to ounter the forces the rider puts on it when there pedaling and still absorb bumbs. so alot of what you are paying for is the R&D going into those designs.
I do not agree with that, the suspension on a dirtbike has to react and work just as fast.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
63
behind the viewfinder
how many sizes do the CR-125 and CR-250 come in?

oh yeah, one size fits all.

and as mentioned above, bikes are WAY more sensitive to the strong/light/cheap triangle, because the motor is far weaker.
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
no matter what they cost.
you get what you pay for.

and i've always gotten my moneys worth.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,254
13,377
Portland, OR
My race rig is far from "top 'o the line" but it also only cost me $1800 ('05 Iron Horse Yakuza with an 888 fork). 8" travel front/rear, very nice parts build, built to handle my huge ass. I race sport class, so I don't feel I need a $4500 Sunday. Would I like a Sunday? Yes I would.

But when the guy who beat me by a full minute did it on a stock '01 Rocky Mountian RM9, spending $4500 seems silly. I don't feel I push my current setup even close to it's max at this point.

If you want a high end bike, or feel your skills require a high end bike, then guess what?

Also, there is a dude who races Expert DH on a late 90's Gary Fisher with v-brakes. Just think what he could do on an M3.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
jimmydean said:
My race rig is far from "top 'o the line" but it also only cost me $1800 ('05 Iron Horse Yakuza with an 888 fork). 8" travel front/rear, very nice parts build, built to handle my huge ass. I race sport class, so I don't feel I need a $4500 Sunday. Would I like a Sunday? Yes I would.

But when the guy who beat me by a full minute did it on a stock '01 Rocky Mountian RM9, spending $4500 seems silly. I don't feel I push my current setup even close to it's max at this point.

If you want a high end bike, or feel your skills require a high end bike, then guess what?

Also, there is a dude who races Expert DH on a late 90's Gary Fisher with v-brakes. Just think what he could do on an M3.

Hey, buy what you can afford and enjoy it is my take on it....
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
ktmsx said:
What the heck does that mean.???..I would bet a couple bucks the CEO of Cannondale,Kona,and a few others are making some $$$$...but either you pay the money for the bike you want or you don't...
compare it to a CEO at Honda motorsports.....friggen peanuts.
I'd be shocked if they made much more than an average lawyer
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,101
1,153
NC
BTW, most MX parts are cast. Bike parts are forged and machined for a significantly higher strength to weight ratio, but it costs a lot more.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
binary visions said:
BTW, most MX parts are cast. Bike parts are forged and machined for a significantly higher strength to weight ratio, but it costs a lot more.
It's all about the price per pound... strong and light weight costs money!!!
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
Chunky Munkey said:
a joke to buy a bike when you can buy a motocross bike and have twice as much fun and jump a hell of a lot farther and higher.

Does anyone see my point and agree?
:nope: you can't say that on a mountainbike forum.....
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,254
13,377
Portland, OR
N8 said:
Hey, buy what you can afford and enjoy it is my take on it....
I can afford a great deal more, but I guess I'm more about "buy what you need". For me I would feel silly racing Sport class on a bike that cost 4x what my skills call for.

Then again, I'm one of those jackasses that uses public transportation to get to work rather than dirve my solo self to work in the morning.
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
N8 said:
A moto is no where near as much fun to me what so ever.
I quoted him not me....up to a year ago you could never tell me anything was as fun....now I flip a coin to see what I will ride that night...;)
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
to say motos arent as fun is just wrong. they are every bit as much fun, just in a different way.

On my dirtbike, I dont get the sense of exploration or solitude, I just get speed, air and make a big ass mess. Its great!
 

ktmsx

Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
527
0
CT.
everything is opinion no..I know people that think it is stupid to pay for hitting a little ball and then go hit it again and again....oh well.....
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
ktmsx said:
everything is opinion no..I know people that think it is stupid to pay for hitting a little ball and then go hit it again and again....oh well.....

It all boils down to which wing of the Asylum you occupy... some people dump thousands in bass boats, others buy Harleys, I just love MTB's and martinis!
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
To properly debate this one must:

a: have some sort of education in manufacturing processes
b: understanding or education of basic economics
c: know that you can still buy $200 bikes, and that pro level MX bikes top over $10,000.


BV is hitting the nail on the head guys, you realy need to listen to him. The bike industry isn't ripping off anyone (side for a few companys of course) and believe me, its expensive to produce the high end bikes with the methods and volume that they do.

Be happy you can buy the same pro-level bikes that WC racers are using, because its much more expensive to do so with anything motorized. You want a custom built motor for your MX bike? Might want to sell all your bikes......
 

cadmus

Monkey
May 24, 2006
755
0
PNW
I think bike prices would come down considerably if they took some pointers from the auto industry. Auto manufacturers don't come out with a new model every year, they change body styles etc about every 4th year. There is little different between my 2005 Jeep and the 2006 model. I'm not sure if this it true in the moto world or not, likely it is.

If bike manufacturers weren't so concerned about having a new line each year, they could save tons of money in many areas - R&D, Marketing, Manufacturing, etc. By selling the same/similar model for more than one year, they would have longer to recoup the costs sunk into developing said model, thus lowering the required margin per unit. Unfortunately, all manufacturers (or at least many) would need to subscribe to this business plan or they would be viewed as non-innovative and behind the curve (I can see the MBA articles now). Too bad, expecially for the consumer.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
N8 said:
Hey, buy what you can afford and enjoy it is my take on it....
Damn N8! That may be the most intelligent thing you have ever said! :p

Seriously though, I agree... just buy what you can afford and enjoy it. I think there's too much competition in the bike industry for a whole industry to be "ripping us off".

No matter what the arena... bikes, MX, race cars, skiing, computers, etc.... if you want the bleeding edge technology you are going to pay for it. No one is forcing you to buy high end, you can buy mid grade stuff and still have fun.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,369
7,766
cadmus said:
I think bike prices would come down considerably if they took some pointers from the auto industry. Auto manufacturers don't come out with a new model every year, they change body styles etc about every 4th year. There is little different between my 2005 Jeep and the 2006 model. I'm not sure if this it true in the moto world or not, likely it is.

If bike manufacturers weren't so concerned about having a new line each year, they could save tons of money in many areas - R&D, Marketing, Manufacturing, etc. By selling the same/similar model for more than one year, they would have longer to recoup the costs sunk into developing said model, thus lowering the required margin per unit. Unfortunately, all manufacturers (or at least many) would need to subscribe to this business plan or they would be viewed as non-innovative and behind the curve (I can see the MBA articles now). Too bad, expecially for the consumer.
kona hasn't changed their lineup in over a decade... :agree:
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
^ to add to that, most companys keep the same line for a season or two, with only minor tweeks. If anything, the cycling industry should look nowhere near the automotive industry seeing how bad reliability is as a whole there.
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
Yes... and thats why I ride around on an 02 Giant AC Air and only buy things when they break. Also because I am poor but still... I figure the bike industry makes enough without my coin. Especially when a friggin rear der can go for $200 :eek:... WTF is that!
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
I place a large part of the blame on us the consumers. How many of you have upgraded a component just because something new was available. We love to bitch about the price of bike parts, but when it comes right down to it, if the big companies didn't keep coming out with major improvements we would be just as pissed. Look at a compay like Kona, when they anounce their new lineup for a new year, tons of people bash them for only making "minor" changes to the old model. If they were to redesign their entire lineup the bike would cost considerably more, but we'd be happy to have something "new" to ride. Then we would just complain about how expensive it was.

N8 is my hero in this debate. If you can't afford the top of the line product from '06, buy something used from '05. It will cost you half the price and be 99% as good. I can't afford a new BMW M3, but a 3-4 year old one is well within my reach, andstill a great car. If you can't afford a 2006 Sunday WC, look at the 2004/5s they should be very affordable, and still great bikes.
 

cadmus

Monkey
May 24, 2006
755
0
PNW
So - you're saying these are the same bike and didn't require any additional design, testing, or changes to manufacturing specs?

2006 Stinky Deluxe:
http://www.konaworld.com/Prod/000000312/2K6_STINKYDLX_1300.jpg

2005 Stinky Dee-luxe:
http://www.konaworld.com/Prod/000000110/2K5_StinkyDlx_Side-xl.jpg

Jeep has made the Grand Cherokee for years, but the 2006 model is significantly different from the 1996 model - but its the same line. Kona might offer the same models every year, which builds familiarity, but they are different every year....
 
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