[jonKranked]

So I got an offer. Its a sweet package, but I think I can get more. My base salary is reasonable for a out of college grad, but because of the location (LA) I think I can get more. I also was offered a decent sized signing bonus (taxable, unfortunately). However, I have to relocate from the east coast (Pawtucket, RI) to the west coast, and they are not giving me any relocation, just the signing bonus. And a cross country move ain't cheap. I start with 2 weeks of paid vacation per year, but since I'm starting 1/2 way through the year, I'll only have one week for the remainder of 2k7. But they do give long holidays ( I get the 4th, 5th, and 6th off for the July 4th holiday, from x-mas to new years, etc). They have a good benefits (insurance, 401k, tuition reimbursement, etc) so I don't have any concerns there. I was just wondering what kind of negotiating tactics I should use; I've never negotiated a salary before. The hard copy of the offer is in the mail for me to sign, is it too late to negotiate? Logically I think its not just because I haven't signed anything yet (and signing this contract will terminate me immediately from my current position). Info? Advice? sarcastic comments?

 

[Westy]

When my company was trying to get me to move to LA they would not give me a salary increase due to cost of living. It seems that despite the fact that it costs an arm and a leg out there salaries are not much higher than the rest of the country.

 

[Zark]

In short, just ask. If they are willing to make a job offer, they have to expect to sweeten the pot a little. Sounds like great bennies though, congrats!

 

[LordOpie]

While the contract isn't signed, you did "accept" verbally. It's not binding, but they might take offense. With that and ANY negotiation, do not negotiate if you're not willing to walk away.

As for compensation, what are other jobs in the LA area paying for similar work?

Also, at this point in your career, I recommend being less concerned about money and more about getting a job that will move your career along. I made the mistake of taking the money in a job that didn't help my career, it costs in the long run.

 

[I Are Baboon]

When you say you are an "out of college grad", does this mean it's your first job out of college? If so, I would not get too pushy about the salary unless you're in a high demand, hard to fill niche.

 

[jimmydean]

You need to ask if you feel you are worth more or can get more. But you also need to like it no matter how much they pay.

My last negotiation sucked. I interviewed with a company that was dropped in my lap. I met the guy at a Christmas party for my wifes office, he was the spouse of my wifes sudo-boss.

I told them going in what I made and what I was looking to make and they made it sound like it wasn't an issue. After a full background/credit check, 2 office visits and a working lunch, they made me an offer. It was a full $20k LESS than what I was currently making. I was pissed! I told them I had an offer from another company that was close to $30k above the offer they sent and they wanted PROOF!

So I ended up faxing the offer letter I got from the other company and told them to do some research. You CAN'T find someone with my skills for $50k, it's not going to happen.

After it was all said and done, they said they would love to hire me, but couldn't afford me. Bastards.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

Opie makes a good point. I would make damn sure this job will help move you along to where you want to be 5, 10 + years down the road.

 

[Westy]

I got an offer from a company that asked what was the lowest possible salary I would consider. I told them and they came back $300 less. I turned it down and told them it wasn't enough money, I didn't give them my minimum as a starting point for negotiations. They got very angry and unprofessional. I'm so glad I didn't take that job.

 

[I Are Baboon]

I went through a recruiter for the job I'm at now (been here five years). While many recruiters are slime, it helps that the higher salary they get for you, the more they get paid. I don't think I could have gotten my salary on my own.

 

[Echo]

Companies are not in the charity business. Their goal is to pay you as little as possible while still retaining you. If you don't fight for more money you will get the bottom of the barrel. The last job I had, I pressed them on wanting more salary and more vacation. They wouldn't budge on the vacation but they upped my salary by 7k. If I had not asked, I would not have received. As an added benefit, when I applied for my current job, they asked me what I was making. So basically getting that money now will affect your salary in future jobs as well.

 

[jonKranked]

When you say you are an "out of college grad", does this mean it's your first job out of college? If so, I would not get too pushy about the salary unless you're in a high demand, hard to fill niche.

Its my first full time job. And yes, its a high demand niche field. There are only 5 universities in the country that offer degrees in what I do (packaging engineering/design - and most people in packaging focus on manufacturing, I do primarily design and concept development). There are far fewer new grads each year than there are new positions.

To answer some questions, I would be perfectly happy with what I was offered (55K salary, 7500 signing bonus - I don't know how this stacks up against other equivalent positions in the area, but it is well above the average starting salary for the packaging industry). The job is a GREAT move for my career - its designing toy packaging for the #1 toy company worldwide (and I really wanna stay in the toy industry, for now at least). Additionally, they are hiring another grad from my college for the same position as mine. We got the same package (salary, benefits, bonus, etc), however I have relevant industry experience (only 3 months tho) from the internship I'm working now - the only difference between what I'm doing here and what I'll be doing there is the brands I'll be working on (and actual physical location, and the fact that I'll be full time).

 

[I Are Baboon]

Companies are not in the charity business. Their goal is to pay you as little as possible while still retaining you. If you don't fight for more money you will get the bottom of the barrel. The last job I had, I pressed them on wanting more salary and more vacation. They wouldn't budge on the vacation but they upped my salary by 7k. If I had not asked, I would not have received. As an added benefit, when I applied for my current job, they asked me what I was making. So basically getting that money now will affect your salary in future jobs as well.

You had years of practical experience though. A fresh college grad won't have the same kind of pull as you.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

how does 55k compare with the cost of living in L.A.? i have always heard cost of living is rediculous out there.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Dude - Louisiana is NOT on the West Coast. And no amount of money would be worth moving there.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Its my first full time job. And yes, its a high demand niche field. There are only 5 universities in the country that offer degrees in what I do (packaging design). There are far fewer new grads each year than there are new positions.

Cool...that makes a difference.

 

[Old_Dude]

I went through all this for so long - now I'm dealing with living on less but having MUCH more time. When you guys get old, money really isn't the big deal, it's how you spend your time and money that really makes the most difference. I love my job - for the next 8 weeks I'm going to be . . . well, I haven't gotten that far yet.

 

[Echo]

Trying to live on 55k in Los Angeles would be like trying to live on 20k in Rochester. You could do it but it wouldn't be much fun.

 

[LordOpie]

Dude - Louisiana is NOT on the West Coast. And no amount of money would be worth moving there.

Whoa, much n8 hate there.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

Dude - Louisiana is NOT on the West Coast. And no amount of money would be worth moving there.

whoopsoster_oops:

 

[binary visions]

packaging engineering/design

Were YOU the f**ker who invented those bubble packs that are heat sealed around the entire outer edge, require a chainsaw to get into and become razor sharp the moment you open them?

BASTARD

 

[jimmydean]

Are you talking Los Angeles or Louisiana?

You couldn't pay me enough to move near N8 and $55k will get you a box on a corner in LA unless you live WAY outside the city.

My brother-in-law had a 2 bedroom condo in Valencia, CA that sold for a half Mil. The location sucked, but it had a 2 car garage.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Handy little cost of living comparison tool:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp

 

[jonKranked]

Are you talking Los Angeles or Louisiana?

You couldn't pay me enough to move near N8 and $55k will get you a box on a corner in LA unless you live WAY outside the city.

My brother-in-law had a 2 bedroom condo in Valencia, CA that sold for a half Mil. The location sucked, but it had a 2 car garage.

did the part where i said "west coast" manage to slip through that magnificent sieve you call a brain? (just a little fun yo). But yes, Los Angeles. I don't plan on settling down there permanently. I'm looking at an apartments thats around around $2500/mo with another guy starting the same time as me. So half that for rent, +utils, etc. I'll be living in Hermosa beach, which is riding distance to where I'll be working. I'm figuring realistically around $2000 for living expenses. But I won't be racing out there, so thats around $200 off my weekly budget from the get go.



And baboon - thanks for that tool. def came in handy.

 

[LordOpie]

Dude, living in a big city like that at a young age is a great experience. That's something to consider.

Don't get stabbed.

 

[llkoolkeg]

$55K for a fresh-out-of-school babe-in-the-woods on his first real job? Part the fools from their money and get to work, ye slackass!

It took me 10 years of hard labor after graduating college to get a base salary in excess of that figure. Then again, I had a less well-developed sense of entitlement than many grads come equipped with these days. :biggrin:

Haggling a written offer for your first real job is like asking your first date if you can get to third base while on the way to a chaparoned dinner dance...it's just bad form.

For a useful wage comparison by job/zip/exp, though, go here=> www.salary.com

 

[jonKranked]

Dude, living in a big city like that at a young age is a great experience. That's something to consider.

Don't get stabbed.

The part of town where I'll be living / working is El Segundo / Hermosa Beach / Redondo Beach - more of a young professional area from what I've been hearing. And I know what a great opportunity/experience this will be for me. The job is a great place for me to start my career. I'm moving more for the job, not the city. To me thats just a side perk.

I'm not worried about getting stabbed. I lived in Rochester NY for 4 years.

 

[Echo]

I'm not worried about getting stabbed. I lived in Rochester NY for 4 years.

Dude. That's like saying you're not worried about getting blown up in Iraq because you ate dinner at a middle eastern restaurant once

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

so it is L.A....i take back my whoops

 

[bluebug32]

At this point, take a job where you'll get lots of experience and connections. Good money comes later.

If you wanted to ask for anything couldn't you ask for partial moving reimbursement? That seems more logical than tacking on extra cash to your salary.

 

[jonKranked]

Dude. That's like saying you're not worried about getting blown up in Iraq because you ate dinner at a middle eastern restaurant once

Last I was aware Rochester had the highest murder rate per capita in NEw York State. Also:

http://rochesterny.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Rochester&s1=NY&c2=Los+Angeles&s2=CA

 

[I Are Baboon]

$55K for a fresh-out-of-school babe-in-the-woods on his first real job? Part the fools from their money and get to work, ye slackass!

I'm more impressed by the $7500 signing bonus. We don't give our new doctors that much.

<---- payroll manager

 

[jimmydean]

Wow, an apartment for $2500? Where do I sign!?!?

Man, it makes my .25 acre house for $800 look like a real sh!thole

No offense, but I miss Southern Cal like Paris misses her jail cell.

Good luck on the new routine.

 

[Echo]

Last I was aware Rochester had the highest murder rate per capita in NEw York State. Also:

http://rochesterny.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Rochester&s1=NY&c2=Los+Angeles&s2=CA

Rochester Population: 211,091

Los Angeles Population: 9,758,886

And that's before you even start considering the surrounding municipalities. For instance, in Rochester you have suburbs like Webster, population 41,010. In L.A. you have suburbs like Anahiem, population 331,804.

 

[jonKranked]

Rochester Population: 211,091

Los Angeles Population: 9,758,886

And that's before you even start considering the surrounding municipalities. For instance, in Rochester you have suburbs like Webster, population 41,010. In L.A. you have suburbs like Anahiem, population 331,804.

Echo, 'per capita' means if the 2 cities were the same in terms of population, Rochester would have a higher crime rate (twice as high as a matter of fact). Just because you like living in white bread suburbia doesn't mean that everyone does

 

[jonKranked]

Wow, an apartment for $2500? Where do I sign!?!?

Its all the location. 3 blocks from the beach, a block from the bars, with a yard and off street parking.

 

[llkoolkeg]

I'm more impressed by the $7500 signing bonus. We don't give our new doctors that much.

<---- payroll manager

The very thought of a "signing bonus" is comical. We're not talking about a 6'6" 260# All-American who can run a 4.2 40 are we?

The signing bonus IS the relocation payment...or does the fresh meat believe it should be in addition to the signing bonus. Hell, while you're busy asking, why not shoot for a company car, an extra two weeks of vacation, stock options, every other Friday off, a personal assistant, the corner office and a posh contract rider, too? Who knows...a business expense account and Monday aftenoon rimmies compliments of the boss's daughter may be right there for the asking! :biggrin:

 

[RimJobbed]

Rochester Population: 211,091

Los Angeles Population: 9,758,886

And that's before you even start considering the surrounding municipalities. For instance, in Rochester you have suburbs like Webster, population 41,010. In L.A. you have suburbs like Anahiem, population 331,804.

And that's without considering the illegals. Add another quarter or more to that number.

 

[zedro]

$55K for a fresh-out-of-school babe-in-the-woods on his first real job? Part the fools from their money and get to work, ye slackass!

well looking at that cost of living index, 55k is equivalent to an upper tier entry-level pay for a new specialized engineer

 

[jonKranked]

The very thought of a "signing bonus" is comical. We're not talking about a 6'6" 260# All-American who can run a 4.2 40 are we?

The signing bonus IS the relocation payment...or does the fresh meat believe it should be in addition to the signing bonus. Hell, while you're busy asking, why not shoot for a company car, an extra two weeks of vacation, stock options, every other Friday off, a personal assistant, the corner office and a posh contract rider, too? Who knows...a business expense account and Monday aftenoon rimmies compliments of the boss's daughter may be right there for the asking! :biggrin:

Just because you hate your job as a gay porn fluffer doesn't mean everyone hates their jobs.


and actually, we only work half day fridays. Its a Fortune 500 company and jeans and t-shirts is normal business attire.

 

[jonKranked]

And that's without considering the illegals. Add another quarter or more to that number.