[Transcend]

So first the nut jobs in South Dakota sign in a bill to ban ALL abortions, knowing it will tie up the courts for years. They only want to challenge Roe v Wade.

Now NJ wants to pass a bill to make anonymous posts on the internet illegal.

Discuss the current administration, and it's penchant for taking away the personal freedoms of its citizens.

 

[Silver]

Those are crazy states. The administration is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.

 

[Tenchiro]

We get the government we deserve.

 

[valve bouncer]

That's OK, I post under my real name anyway. My middle name is Ernie btw.

 

[DaveW]

I say nuke em and send the survivors to guantanamo bay.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Freedom for unborn children...

 

[Ciaran]

FREEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Freedom for unborn children...

But not for women in general.

 

[BurlyShirley]

But not for women in general.

I dont have the freedom to kill my unborn child, why should a woman?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I dont have the freedom to kill my unborn child, why should a woman?

No, you don't have the freedom to decide what a woman does with her body.

 

[clancy98]

but its not her body shes killing duh....

i think you meant roe.

 

[BurlyShirley]

No, you don't have the freedom to decide what a woman does with her body.

I dont care what she does with HER body, its the one inside of hers.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I dont care what she does with HER body, its the one inside of hers.

Which is connected to and part of hers. You can't terminate the life inside of her without violating her right to control her own body. Similarly, you can not tell her how to control her own body by eliminating her right to terminate a pregnancy.

Burly (and Clancy if you want to join in) have you adopted a kid, or have you made plans to adopt a kid? If not, why not?

 

[DaveW]

I dont care what she does with HER body, its the one inside of hers.

Untill it's able to think or act of it's own accord I'd consider it to just be another clump of cells in her body.
After it aquires that function it's a human with rights IMO.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Im actually not even anti-abortion, I just like stirring the crap. I havent adopted kids because I hate kids and I think more should be aborted.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Im actually not even anti-abortion, I just like stirring the crap. I havent adopted kids because I hate kids and I think more should be aborted.

Well, if you get your kicks from "stirring the crap" so be it. I think you could do a better job of it if you really wanted.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Well, if you get your kicks from "stirring the crap" so be it. I think you could do a better job of it if you really wanted.

You're right, but Im lazy.

I do actually have a problem with how men arent allowed to decide on abortions, yet are forced to pay child support based on the mothers' only decision. Im writing a paper on that right now actually. I may post it for kicks.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

You're right, but Im lazy.

I do actually have a problem with how men arent allowed to decide on abortions, yet are forced to pay child support based on the mothers' only decision. Im writing a paper on that right now actually. I may post it for kicks.

I would read it.

 

[valve bouncer]

You're right, but Im lazy.

I do actually have a problem with how men arent allowed to decide on abortions, yet are forced to pay child support based on the mothers' only decision. Im writing a paper on that right now actually. I may post it for kicks.

Men can absolutely decide. They decide by not f*cking. If they do f*ck once it's over and assuming they aren't in a relationship then it's up to the woman to decide. If a woman in a relationship has an abortion without her partners knowledge and/or consent well then that relationship was obviously in serious trouble.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I hear there's birth control for men now - so now you can do even more to prevent kiddos from spawning....

and btw - back to the original post - the administration is a symptom of the era, it's not the cause of it.

Burley - you always were a speck of reality in this ocean of diarhea...

 

[BurlyShirley]

Men can absolutely decide. They decide by not f*cking. If they do f*ck once it's over and assuming they aren't in a relationship then it's up to the woman to decide. If a woman in a relationship has an abortion without her partners knowledge and/or consent well then that relationship was obviously in serious trouble.

I dont think that's valid because the woman could have made the same choice to simply not **** in the beginning too. But once a woman is pregnant, she has a choice, he does not. Its not fair that she makes the decision whether or not he will be paying her 26% of his income for the next 18 years.

 

[Ciaran]

You're right, but Im lazy.

I do actually have a problem with how men arent allowed to decide on abortions, yet are forced to pay child support based on the mothers' only decision. Im writing a paper on that right now actually. I may post it for kicks.

I'd read that too.

On the one hand I can see what VB is saying , but if having sex is a 50/50 thing, and BC is a 50/50 thing, shouldn't the decision of whether or not to bring the accidantal child into the world a 50/50 thing also?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I'd read that too.

On the one hand I can see what VB is saying , but if having sex is a 50/50 thing, and BC is a 50/50 thing, shouldn't the decision of whether or not to bring the accidantal child into the world a 50/50 thing also?

I'd say yes - if you're in a committed relationship with the woman. But I say no if you really just wanted a one-night-stand of playing pin the tail... Basically, if a guy's already planning on being a part of the woman's life, then ya, for sure he should be part of the decision-making about kids. But if he's only there for a little tail, then no - because who's going to be raising the kid?
Ya - I know that guys can get slapped with the child-support thing, and that sucks if you're not going be involved in the kids life at all - but Dad's that don't want to be a part of a kids life are probably a lot more likely to be dead beats and not pay until court-ordered to.

A girlfriend of mine had an abortion when she got knocked up. The dude was around for all of two weeks and then was gone. She knew where he lived, how to find him, etc etc. When she found out she was pregnant, she took a week and visited her mom to think things through away from the area where she was influenced. When she returned, she went to her support group of girlfriends, and went and took care of the abortion. The dude never knew about the kid, and never will - because he was just a fling, not something long term or permanent.

 

[Velocity Girl]

I'd read that too.

On the one hand I can see what VB is saying , but if having sex is a 50/50 thing, and BC is a 50/50 thing, shouldn't the decision of whether or not to bring the accidantal child into the world a 50/50 thing also?

But in making the 50/50 choice to have sex in the first place, both parties are agreeing to the potential consequences that come with it....and yes for men, that means with the first agreement you're agreeing to the fact that you don't have a 50/50 say in weather or not a women has an abortion.

 

[jimmydean]

I dont think that's valid because the woman could have made the same choice to simply not **** in the beginning too. But once a woman is pregnant, she has a choice, he does not. Its not fair that she makes the decision whether or not he will be paying her 26% of his income for the next 18 years.

Mine was 42%, but that's only because my ex is a bitch and sued me from California (where you will get more of a shaft).

 

[Changleen]

Mine was 42%, but that's only because my ex is a bitch and sued me from California (where you will get more of a shaft).

Ouch! You should move abroad and pay what you feel like paying.

 

[biggins]

yeah i am gonna have to agree with BS on this one. another way to look at it is this. if a woman gets pregnant and wants to get an abortion but the man wants to have the child then the woman still gets to make the choice. It is not all about the abortion ya know. It just so happens that the only side you hear is where the woman wants the child and the man doesnt.

 

[biggins]

as for the government, they are only this paranoid (eavesdropping, intercepting e-mails and whatnot)because they know they are doing bad things. if they were not they would have nothing to worry about.

 

[Transcend]

as for the government, they are only this paranoid (eavesdropping, intercepting e-mails and whatnot)because they know they are doing bad things. if they were not they would have nothing to worry about.

Sorry, complete BS. They could potentially intercept any communication between someone in the US and myself, and in the process get confidential information that has nothing to do with a case, and which I didn't give anyone permission to have.

It isn't a case of "i'm not doing anytyhing wrong", it's a case of "it's none of their bloody business".

I don't want to be eavesdropped on, or have my email intercepted. Putting up with it because "you are doing nothing wrong" is absolute bull****.

 

[Transcend]

yeah i am gonna have to agree with BS on this one. another way to look at it is this. if a woman gets pregnant and wants to get an abortion but the man wants to have the child then the woman still gets to make the choice. It is not all about the abortion ya know. It just so happens that the only side you hear is where the woman wants the child and the man doesnt.

Sure, it's a 50/50 decision. Only you made both of your choices when you stuck your dick in her.

Being pregnant isn't exactly pleasant, neither is poppping out something the size of a watermelon. Many complications can also take place rendering the pregnancy downright dangerous.

The man SHOULDN'T have any choice, as he doesn't have to do any of the work.

 

[Changleen]

It isn't a case of "i'm not doing anytyhing wrong", it's a case of "it's none of their bloody business".

I don't want to be eavesdropped on, or have my email intercepted. Putting up with it because "you are doing nothing wrong" is absolute bull****.

 

[lux]

as for the government, they are only this paranoid (eavesdropping, intercepting e-mails and whatnot)because they know they are doing bad things. if they were not they would have nothing to worry about.

Transcend and Changleen. Maybe I missed something, but I read that he's saying our gubmint is acting they way the currently do because they are doing something wrong. Not us.

I tend to agree.

 

[Transcend]

Transcend and Changleen. Maybe I missed something, but I read that he's saying our gubmint is acting they way the currently do because they are doing something wrong. Not us.

I tend to agree.

Maybe, but it doesn't matter WHY they are doing it. Either way you are still giving up personal freedoms. This was the entire point of the thread.

 

[lux]

Maybe, but it doesn't matter WHY they are doing it. Either way you are still giving up personal freedoms. This was the entire point of the thread.

Nah. I really need my government to tell me what to do. Wish it was law to come inside when it's raining. I just keep getting wet.

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

.... unborn children...

No such thing. That's like calling a hub an unbuilt wheel or an egg an unhatched chicken. Nice word trickery though.

 

[Silver]

A man shouldn't have any say over whether a woman has an abortion.

He should have the option of a paper abortion, however. Want to bet that women wouldn't forget birth control pills as often?

 

[noname]

Untill it's able to think or act of it's own accord I'd consider it to just be another clump of cells in her body.
After it aquires that function it's a human with rights IMO.

the question for you is, if you're in an accident that leaves you in a coma, you are technically unable to think or act of your own accord, are you dead? Are you just a clump of cells? My biggest problem with the situation is allowing someone to arbitrarily decide the parameters of life, could get tricky really quick. .......guess that's why it's such a hotly contested issue......

 

[noname]

Sorry, complete BS. They could potentially intercept any communication between someone in the US and myself, and in the process get confidential information that has nothing to do with a case, and which I didn't give anyone permission to have.

It isn't a case of "i'm not doing anytyhing wrong", it's a case of "it's none of their bloody business".

I don't want to be eavesdropped on, or have my email intercepted. Putting up with it because "you are doing nothing wrong" is absolute bull****.

don't know what's worse, that it happens or that the supreme court allows these things to happen (was allowed under Carter, wasn't tested during Clinton's Eschelon project, Bush to be determined......):mumble:

 

[Changleen]

No such thing. That's like calling... ...an egg an unhatched chicken. Nice word trickery though.

That is an excellent comparison. I wonder how many of these pro-lifers had a nice hearty American breakfast to keep their strenght up before going out to protest?

Mmm, fried unborn chicken tastes good.

How do you like your unborn chicken? Over easy?

 

[Ciaran]

But in making the 50/50 choice to have sex in the first place, both parties are agreeing to the potential consequences that come with it....and yes for men, that means with the first agreement you're agreeing to the fact that you don't have a 50/50 say in weather or not a women has an abortion.

That decision that the man is not allowed to participate in will affect him the rest of his life. And what about those women who say they are on the pill but aren't? I happen to have a friend who had that happen. Now he is responsible for a special needs child that he had not planned on.

It's fine and dandy to say that the man shouldn't have any decision because it's not his body and he doesn't have to carry the child or give birth, but if you are going to take that road, you MUST give the man an opportunity to have the burden of responsibility removed. If a woman gets preggo on purpose in a deceptive way the man should not be held responsible.

The man SHOULDN'T have any choice, as he doesn't have to do any of the work.

Bull****. The man will have to work to support that child looong after the woman is done giving birth.

Just my opinion, your milage may vary...