Best XC HT frame?

jonassterling · Jul 27, 2003

I just posted an answer in the DH forum, but since your run in with partsbara you might not read it so I'll put it here too.

I think you are not looking for an XC frame. XC frames are light and meant to travel fast, not handle 10 footers. Wrong geometry and too light to handle that kind of abuse. I would take another look at those frames at Unreal, even if if you never try any DJ's.

Dropping in on any XC frame from those heights would kill just about any XC frame, even if you spend 2 grand.

jonassterling · Jul 27, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
Maybe 10 feet was over exagerating. Let me rephrase that. Id like my frame to be able to take a rough beating. In the event that a drop came up, I wouldnt want to worry about breaking the bike or me on the land.

I really like this one

Not a bad choice. Maybe look at the new SC Chamelon, too. If you got 2 grand to spend you might as well step it up a bit. You might also find a custom frame bulder to build you up a kinda burly XC frame for that price. And if I were you, I'd go with steel.

Than again I'm an idiot that owns 7 steel bikes right now so you might think I'm kinda biased.

jonassterling · Jul 27, 2003

I think you are on the right track now.

bigpow5 · Jul 27, 2003

http://www.sinisterbikes.com/ridge.htm

Good option. Can take serious abuse.

Babar · Jul 27, 2003

Balfa minuteman doing XC, i say no... my friend rides one and he can ride XC but has so much hard time.

Ok Planet-x compo sounds the best.

Drunken_Ninja · Jul 27, 2003

my rocky mountain elevation frame has done 6-8' but it scares the heck out of me when i go past six so i stopped going big with it.

brodie makes some stupidly strong bikes like that and i know that norco does up here in canada.

dunno about balfa having any.

rocky mountain bikes has some oversized HTs for that and they told me not to go big like that on mine, i think the grind and the flow do the range you are talking about like it's nothing.

.243 and cove bikes make some stupid stuff like that too.

i think that is all of the canadian bike manufacturers that i can think of.

Echo · Jul 28, 2003

Same reply as the other thread - support your LBS!

Someday you will be glad you did.

Low_b · Jul 29, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
I thought about steel. This appeals to me:

I ride that exact frame for XC and I love it!!
It's very durable, I've done a few 4-6 foot drops with it and it's held up fine.

MikeD · Jul 29, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous

Instead of lashing out at the idiotic comment that started this thread, I'll just say that that'd be a really, really good choice for the riding you describe. It's got very traditional geometry and it's strong as hell.

The PlanetX compo geometry wierds me out. Front's too short, rear's too long, and it's too tall, at least for any bike I could ride. Then again, I like a long, low bike with a short rear end.

MD

axlvid23 · Jul 29, 2003

what leads you to believe we are "ingrates" in the DH forum?

Serial Midget · Jul 29, 2003

My only advice is that heavy hardtail XC bikes suck.

You have $2,000.00 but that is no reason to blow it all on one frame. A Giant XTC frame weighs about 3.5 lbs and costs less than $400.00 new - $250.00 used on eBay. That leaves you plenty of cash for a proper hucking frame.

But don't pay any attention to me... I know nothing about botique bike frames.

MikeOK · Jul 30, 2003

I just bought a used '02 Stiffee FR. I'm in the process of gathering parts now but it looks like a sweet frame. Good welds, replaceable der hanger, and a nice slack geometry. I held it next to my Bullit and the angles looked very similar...

Serial Midget · Jul 30, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
Not all of you, just the jackass that calls himself parts.

PartsBara is not to be taken too seriously... lighten up - he has been warned.

MikeD · Jul 30, 2003

I, for one, am most grateful you asked a question about an XC frame that can take 6-10' drops.

MD

wooglin · Jul 30, 2003

Kona's got a new Clydesdale line for XC coming out in September. Might be worth a look.

http://www.konaworld.com/2k4_bikes.cfm

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
I never said I was going to spend ALL the 2 grand on a frame, thats insane! Id never pay more than 700 for it. I have my eye on these:

Both less than 5 pounds.

okay some comments about the cove stiffee since i was looking into one of these myself in the past. First off, cove sells them for $700 canadian at full price, though if they have overstock from the year before they sell for $400 canadian direct from their webpage.

That is what I meant by an oversized bike. It can handle 6'+ drops where that particular planet x doesn't even compare.

You do not want skinny xc tubing you want really really fat tubing for your drops. Otherwise you break it and pose the threat of injury to yourself.

So expect your frame weight to be different. a normal xc HT frame is about 4.5 lbs (or less) and a proper FR frame for the 6'-8' range is going to start around 5.5lbs+.

I almost went with a cove frame last year but once you get one, you get clearance for wide tires and everything. It is like you may as well just go bigger, all around. They do sell a variety of parts kits with those.

I know that the RMB grind or flow frames had more xc orientated stuff on them. They were nowhere near as aggressive as the Cove bikes. Cove uses tange aluminum tubing also which is different than the traditional easton tubing that people seem to break easy.

As for the planet x that was showing. That is a trials frame...i seen someone around here build one up and one of the fellas at work was telling me that they break just as easy as the ellsworth HT frames. They are not strong enough for what you suggest.

p.s. Cove does not make sub 5lb FR frames. where did you hear that? that frame is prolly 6lbs easy. That is a heavy bike. or at least, always used to be.

Low_b · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
It can handle 6'+ drops where that particular planet x doesn't even compare.

My guess would be you have no real experience with the PX Compo to base that on.

MikeD · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Low_b
My guess would be you have no real experience with the PX Compo to base that on.

He also said it was a trials frame, dude. Just smile nicely and back away slowly. Then hit your ignore button...(which, for some reason, I've avoided doing until just now...)

MD

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Low_b
My guess would be you have no real experience with the PX Compo to base that on.

I heard shop rumors. That is correct. I heard really bad rumors about the planet x bikes. some people said they are strong and others said that if you know how to go big then you don't want them because they break.

Every frame breaks i am sure. at some point.

yes, planet x has been known to specialize in making ht's that are reinforced for this kind of thing. that specific one doesn't have a really large toptube and I have seen other planet x's that do have frame reinforcement in other areas.

the x's are stronger than the rocky mountain for sure. The cove bike is the strongest i would think of the HTs posted here so far.

though the .243 made of chromo is less likely to crack because chromo is stronger. (it too is a FR)

i worked for a planet x dealer last and i heard the lowdown on x breakage if you don't get one that is reinforced for going over 6'.

average frames will not last with repeated abuse like that.

of course the full reccomendation is to go for a dualie at this point and to stop fooling around with ht's because you are getting into hazardous areas. hip, knees and ankles and back are at risk for serious injury with repeated abuse like that.

On the north shore the locals say HTs are only justified for these types of drops if you are going down the mountain because the fork really does most of the work anyhow in that specific scenario.

The most common HT of choice there has been Brodie for the past few years. Very affordable oversized tubing. It is worth getting them a little smaller in size because the top tubes are so oversized and longer plus they ride differently than most bikes.

the rear stays are almost identical to the planet x though...they are just cheaper i am sure.

what you are riding plays a huge factor.

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

I just found the new team bikes.

they did seem to account for the problem that i was talking about.

it was a well known fact that planet x bicycles does not fool around when it comes to overbuilding their bikes.

i think this one is called a ridgeback

Serial Midget · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
Straight from Jenson. Logically, that would make the 15" around 4 maybe less?

Probably not - my Giant XTC (SL-X) arrived at 3 LBS 4 oz in the 14" size - I think the 19" standard frame weighs 3 LBS 8 oz.

sub6 · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by phoeneous
Straight from Jenson.

that really doesn't mean anything. They just copy what the manuf. gives them and frequently those numbers are very very optimistic, if not outright lies.

Originally posted by phoeneous
Logically, that would make the 15" around 4 maybe less?

Not by a long shot.

That frame sounds pretty much right up your alley, but don't go thinking you've got a 3.9lb frame that will take 10 foot hits. Because there ain't no such thing.

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Probably not - my Giant XTC (SL-X) arrived at 3 LBS 4 oz in the 14" size - I think the 19" standard frame weighs 3 LBS 8 oz.

that bike would fold in half going over 6'...you can't be serious SM?

Anyway the same people that were telling me that Planet X's are breaking apart just over 6' were trials bike users. Which is nowhere near the same as xc and is viewed locally as less abusive than xc...

They also reccomended NICOLAI as the very best and toughest new bicycles on the market...for what you are looking for. Definitely try nicolai then.. if you have the money for it they are said to be the best.

Serial Midget · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
that bike would fold in half going over 6'...you can't be serious SM?

Pay attention clueless. I never suggested my frame for hucking - I just used it as an example of how the difference in size and weight are not proportional.

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Pay attention clueless. I never suggested my frame for hucking - I just used it as an example of how the difference in size and weight are not proportional.

I ain't clueless...

am glad you joined the conversation at some point.

Low_b · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by MikeD
He also said it was a trials frame, dude. Just smile nicely and back away slowly. Then hit your ignore button...(which, for some reason, I've avoided doing until just now...)

MD

lol....What a kook this guy is..

Now he's basing his facts from rumor...

:

phoeneous I hope you don't purchase a bike on DN's postings.

Drunken_Ninja · Aug 4, 2003

Originally posted by Low_b
lol....What a kook this guy is..
Now he's basing his facts from rumor...:

phoeneous I hope you don't purchase a bike on DN's postings.

well yeah...these fellas called all of the planet x bikes trials bikes this year for a couple of reasons.

they were all for show

an they declared that they all break too easy like. an for some stupid reason where they do the sport anything called planet x is a trials bike. (except the road one)

they were pretty serious like.

phoneous i seriously only reccomend that you investigate these issues that i mention. they seemed like a really big deal to the people i talked to and neither would i take anything at face value either.

the cove stiffee i have held in my hands though before and that frame wasn't that light as you would suggest.

with those bikes, the weight is not even a factor. if you were to start talking to the dealer in grams and ounces they would throw you out of the store over that bike.

the durability of the bike matters. as for the weight you are expected to just 'deal'.

hopefully that will help you understand what i am getting at. I have enjoyed the conversations that i have had with industry people on my own and every one of these resources were reccomended to me by people 'in the know'.

i tend to take matters of great concern very lightly and matters of small concern i take very seriously.

Li'l Dave · Aug 6, 2003

Get the Sinister Ridge frame!!! Most of the guys at the company ride both XC and freeride type stuff on the same bike. They look awesome, are semi inexpensive, and the guys at the company were super cool.

MikeOK · Aug 6, 2003

Originally posted by Li'l Dave
Get the Sinister Ridge frame!!! Most of the guys at the company ride both XC and freeride type stuff on the same bike. They look awesome, are semi inexpensive, and the guys at the company were super cool.

There's a good point. Get a bike you can freeride and xc both. I always thought the older xc bikes were built too much like road bikes, steep head angles and too much weight on the bars. To me the best thing is a moderately high BB, a slack head angle, and who cares if my seat is higher than my crown or not? Am I the only one who thinks it looks goofy to have a seatpost sticking 16" out of the seat tube? That was a general rule a couple years ago, to have your seat at least a couple inches higher than your steer tube cap. Why??? And a couple extra lb's for a stronger, more comfortable frame? Big deal!! The stingray I rode as a kid probably weighed over 30 lb's and I rode the snot out of it, and loved every minute of it...

phoneous - I'm buying a few things at a time for the Stiffee. It's fun to look for stuff on sale, and I've even bought a few components from people here on RM. I'll post a pic when it's finished.

MikeD · Aug 6, 2003

As much as I think the Ridge is a BAD-ass frame, I still don't see how a 13.5" seattube is gonna give this guy what he wants. I'm pretty damned sure he wants to be able to sit and pedal...and I think a bike like the Cove or a Kona HT is going to give him that.

Now, if I was trialsy-teching-hardcore-charging thru Lynn Woods, I think I might choose the Sinister...but if I was climbing mountains then bombing down, I'd get something a bit more traditional-XC.

MD

MikeD · Aug 6, 2003

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja

the cove stiffee i have held in my hands though before and that frame wasn't that light as you would suggest.

Maybe they weighed it without the shock when they posted the stats. Some companies do that.

MD

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