[jacksonpt]

how much stock do you put in reviews done by bike mags? Seems like the general consensus is that all the major publications suck... but I generally enjoy them. Because bike feel is so personal, I don't put a lot of stock in individual bike reviews... but I do pay attention to bike comparison tests, especially the perceived advantages/disadvantages of one bike compared to another.

The reason I ask is that there are soooo many bikes out there, where do you start? Obviously the LBS is the first stop, but what then? I've been looking to get a road bike for some time now, but I've had a lot of trouble finding a bike I like, that fits my budget, AND that feels good in the saddle.

My list of candidates is pretty short (about 5 bikes total) based on what I can get from my LBS. One of my considerations (Jamis Quest) was rated the "Best Value Enthusiast Road Bike" or something or another by Bicycling Magazine.

Ultimately it's going to come down to which bike feels the best to ME... but it does mean something to me that someone who's spent a whole lot more time in the saddle, and ridden a whole lot more bikes that I have thinks highly of the Quest. Is it stupid to lend any credibility to magazine reviews like this?

 

[=[Stinky]=]

Zero from MBA.... I trust BIKE and Dirt Rag much more... BTW, Specialized has some excellent entry level road bikes... The Allez Series of bikes.

 

[Crazy Sweeper]

I too have been looking at getting a road bike this year, and the two biggest reccomendations I've received is to ask your LBS or another nearby LBS to get a fit kit. I'm told it costs about 50 clams but its the best thing you could ever do before buying a roadbike. What they do is take your measurements and tell you the different dimensions that are important for you. There's so many more important things than the standover height of your roadbike, since you spend much more time in the saddle in the same position.

The other piece of advice is a site www.wrenchscience.com I've never checked them out but apparently they do the same thing, you just give them your measurements.

 

[MMcG]

Jackson - I ride a 2003 Jamis Quest and I LOVE it! Pretty light, Reynolds 631 steel, full 105 group, really nice Mavic Cosmos wheelset, the ability to put racks on the back if I wanted to use it as a dedicated commuter bike.

I'm not a triathlete or road racer, but I do love to ride the road (increasingly so as a matter of fact) and the Quest is a great value in my opinion for someone who plans on spending a good amount of time road riding.

I compared it over several comparatively equipped AL framed road bikes and much preferred the Quest over the others that I tried.

I think the bike - a 55cm - fits me well and I feel very comfortable on it.

All in all I'm super stoked that the Quest is my road bike.

Hope this helps!

Mark

 

[Andyman_1970]

How much does your Quest weight?

 

[LordOpie]

Is it stupid to lend any credibility to magazine reviews like this?

Yes, sorry.

I worked in the software industry for a while as a marketing manager and found that reviews were almost exclusively related to how much money you spend on advertising and schmoozing the editors.

That's not to say that some reviews are unbiased, especially if the writer isn't on staff. And some reviews may very well be fair.

 

[JRB]

I always go to LordOpie for reviews. He is the smartest monkey, so I always ask him first.

 

[LordOpie]

How much does your Quest weight?

Unless you're a skinny racer, I don't understand why weight is so important to people. No offense.

Jamis makes good stuff.

But it's all about fit. A cheap bike that fits is better than an expensive one that doesn't.

 

[LordOpie]

I always go to LordOpie for reviews. He is the smartest monkey, so I always ask him first.

That's cuz I PM Serial Midget and post his replies

 

[JRB]

Unless you're a skinny racer, I don't understand why weight is so important to people. No offense.

Jamis makes good stuff.

But it's all about fit. A cheap bike that fits is better than an expensive one that doesn't.

I was told that Jamis suck, in not so many words, because I made a comment about Titus.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Unless you're a skinny racer, I don't understand why weight is so important to people. No offense.

Jamis makes good stuff.

But it's all about fit. A cheap bike that fits is better than an expensive one that doesn't.

Fit is the most important, but I am sorry on a road bike weight is important as well. Especially if you plan on riding often or in groups and you want to keep up without killing yourself. I borrowed a few bikes before purchasing a used Road Bike about a year ago. You can CERTAINLY feel a BIG difference in a few lbs. Especially if the weight is in the wheelset. Entry level bikes can vary by a lot of weight. So when comparing them you should certainly check to see how much they weigh.

My bike weights right ~ 20lbs with the bike bag and water bottle holders. It is a 54cm (I believe) older Carbon bike, with Shimano 600 (Ultegra's predecessor)

 

[jacksonpt]

As for the weight issue - here's my take on it. comapring a 15lb carbon/ti bike to a 25lb steel bike is one thing, but if I'm riding a 22lb steel bike and I can't keep up with someone on a 20lb alu bike, then I'm going to blame my fitness/strength/conditioning before I blame the bike.

Is weight important? Yes... but unless your a big time racer, I think it's very much a secondary issue.

 

[LordOpie]

Especially if the weight is in the wheelset.

gonna disagree

Rotational weight is only a factor if you're stopping and going a lot. And a wheel that weighs very little will actually have a negative affect if it's a bumpy road cuz the added rotational mass will clear and keep you moving over the bumps better. And who has really smooth roads?

As for overall weight, you're talking about saving maybe a second per mile, ceterus paribus.


As Jackson pointed out, we're talking about 2-3# differences for the low 20# bikes, not that 30# monster.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

gonna disagree

Rotational weight is only a factor if you're stopping and going a lot. And a wheel that weighs very little will actually have a negative affect if it's a bumpy road cuz the added rotational mass will clear and keep you moving over the bumps better. And who has really smooth roads?

On an entry level bike you are not going to get into a wheel that is TOO light.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I don't think magazine reviews are very useful. The flaws as I see them are:

1. You are reading the opinion of one self appointed expert.
2. The review is short term so the things you really need to learn about, like flaws in the design or construction, probably won't be discovered during the review.

I like to see many long term impressions like you will find at MTBR. There is a lot of garbage on their but if I read through all the reviews and disregard the idiot comments, I feel I have learned something useful about the product.

Message boards can be useful too but I think it would help if reviews were organized in a format that was a little more structured than just a standard thread format.

 

[LordOpie]

On an entry level bike you are not going to get into a wheel that is TOO light.

agreed, but you're suggesting that a light weight wheel is always better, that light weight is always better. I'm suggesting that that's not correct.

More importantly, I'm suggesting that weight is a non-factor for almost every non-racer... again, not talking about those 30#+ beasts, just typical production bikes.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Unless you're a skinny racer, I don't understand why weight is so important to people. No offense.

Jamis makes good stuff.

But it's all about fit. A cheap bike that fits is better than an expensive one that doesn't.

I am skinny, but I'm not a racer, and yes weight is important to me. Why would I drop $ on a 21 pound road bike (which is why I asked about the weight) when I can slap some slicks on my 22 pound Ti Hardtail and weight not much more than a heavy road bike.

I asked about weight, because in my search for a road bike 18 pounds is my "magic" number as far as weight weight is concerned.

I don't disagree that Jamis makes good stuff, it was just a general info question.

 

[JRB]

Message boards can be useful too but I think it would help if reviews were organized in a format that was a little more structured than just a standard thread format.

Get to work, then, bum. What are we paying you for???

 

[BMXman]

Message boards can be useful too but I think it would help if reviews were organized in a format that was a little more structured than just a standard thread format.

I can't wait until you get this going.....D

 

[LordOpie]

I am skinny, but I'm not a racer, and yes weight is important to me. Why would I drop $ on a 21 pound road bike (which is why I asked about the weight) when I can slap some slicks on my 22 pound Ti Hardtail and weight not much more than a heavy road bike.

Because your HT isn't a roadbike?

 

[Andyman_1970]

Because your HT isn't a roadbike?

?

 

[Tashi]

i don't know about you guys, but I actuallly enjoy riding light bike more than heavy ones, espically roadies. I don't race (against other people), so I'm not going to go crazy on buying lightweight stuff, but it is a factor in any road bike purchace. (of course there are other factors, espically on entry level bikes, blah, blah, blah)

Lighter bikes are faster. Faster is more fun. This isn't obvious?

 

[JRB]

Lighter bikes are faster. Faster is more fun. This isn't obvious?

but I like my steel bike. Everything else is fairly light. Light wheels are most important to me.

 

[LordOpie]

?

What size tires would you run on your HT? 1.25" slicks? That's a lot wider than the typical 23-25s most people run on a road bike. The geometries are different between a roadie and HT. And yeah, you can put drop bars on a HT, but most people don't and lose the extra hand positions. There are many differences between a mtb and roadie other than weight and weight is the least important factor in those differences.

Just saying that a HT isn't a road bike, tho it can certainly provide you what you want.

Lighter bikes are faster. Faster is more fun. This isn't obvious?

Get yourself a heavier bike, 22-23#? Alternate riding your typicaly ride between it and your light bike. Bet ya $5 after 30 rides on each, that your time isn't significantly different.

Fun is important and if the psychological advantage makes it more fun, than more power to you.

But most people don't need to spend the extra $500-2000 on a bike to save that 2-4# to have fun.

 

[Tashi]

I hear 'ya, steel roadies are nice. And lugged ones are nice to look at.
I'm a big fan of a strong chassis (frame and fork) and nice light parts, especially wheels.

Holy cow, I just realized that all my bikes are steel now! I must be retro!

 

[Tashi]

Get yourself a heavier bike, 22-23#? Alternate riding your typicaly ride between it and your light bike. Bet ya $5 after 30 rides on each, that your time isn't significantly different.

Fun is important and if the psychological advantage makes it more fun, than more power to you.

But most people don't need to spend the extra $500-2000 on a bike to save that 2-4# to have fun.

I'm pretty sure that you know it's not only a psycological advantage. Lighter wheels espically feel faster, and carry speed better on grinding climbs.

I think that we're bothe hitting the same points here actually: weight is important, but most recreational riders shouldn't blow tons of cash to get the lightest stuff, agreed?

 

[Andyman_1970]

What size tires would you run on your HT? 1.25" slicks? That's a lot wider than the typical 23-25s most people run on a road bike. The geometries are different between a roadie and HT. And yeah, you can put drop bars on a HT, but most people don't and lose the extra hand positions. There are many differences between a mtb and roadie other than weight and weight is the least important factor in those differences.

Just saying that a HT isn't a road bike, tho it can certainly provide you what you want.

I think we’re talking in circles here……………anyway.

I run 1.0” Hutchinson Top Slick Airlights on my HT, at 110 psi – so their not much wider than a roadie tire. Yes the geometries are different, and with bar ends (*gasp*) I get about as many hand positions as I used on my road bike.

While there are gearing and tire diameter differences which are probably more important factors than weight – currently on my locked out HT I can catch and drop roadies on the local roads. This leads me back to my current position, with a Ti HT I can stay with a good portion of local roadies (not the big time racers mind you) with all the gearing / wheel size advantages they have, to me it doesn’t make sense to buy a road bike that is not at least 4 pounds lighter than my HT to make the cash outlay worth my while.

 

[LordOpie]

I'm pretty sure that you know it's not only a psycological advantage. Lighter wheels espically feel faster, and carry speed better on grinding climbs.

I think that we're bothe hitting the same points here actually: weight is important, but most recreational riders shouldn't blow tons of cash to get the lightest stuff, agreed?

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I'll agree with "feel faster" and if that psychological advantage helps, awesome!

Stiff wheels would be better than lighter wheels. Flexing steals a lot of power.

And once you get over that rotational moment, than the wheels are spinning. I've even suggested that heavier* is better when you hit a bump as the weight will help carry you thru the obstacle.

* within reason.

Check this...

The September 2003 Bicycling Magazine has a chart that makes it easy to quantify the performance gains from light weight. James C. Martin, Ph.D., assistant professor in the department of exercise and sport science at the University of Utah provided some interesting calculations that make the cost of weight very clear.

He posited a 5 kilometer, 7% grade. That's a good, stiff climb. The legendary Stelvio climb averages 7.5%. He further assumed a rider who can kick out 250 watts. A 160 pound rider will take 19 minutes and 21 seconds to get up the hill. Every 5 pounds added make the trip up the hill take 30 seconds longer.

That means each added pound adds 6 seconds to the time it takes to get up this hill. That is only 6 seconds on a stiff, 20 minute climb.

So, given our roughly 4-pound range from a full steel bike to a super-light carbon or aluminum bike, the time difference up this hill would be 24 seconds from best to worst.
link

And that's a serious climb. The differences on flat are irrelevant.

 

[Tashi]

Flexy wheels do suck, I'm running the ones that came stock on last years Allez Elite and they bug the hell out of me. I think that they're even creaking now. Damn it!Why can't bikes come with Shimano hubs (with a normal spoke count), DB DT spokes, and Open Pros? Why do they always have to look so cool but be so lame?

 

[Tashi]

Oh yeah, original topic:

Mag reviews by the MTB mags are lame. Borderline worthless at best. I'd trust almost anything that VeloNews has to say though.

 

[LordOpie]

Flexy wheels do suck, I'm running the ones that came stock on last years Allez Elite and they bug the hell out of me. I think that they're even creaking now. Damn it!Why can't bikes come with Shimano hubs (with a normal spoke count), DB DT spokes, and Open Pros? Why do they always have to look so cool but be so lame?

haha, those are the exact wheels I bought a year ago... OP w/ ult hubs. Solid and treated me well. I did notice going from my crappy Alex rims/hubs to them that I climbed better.

Looks like the cheapest bike to come with good wheels starts ~$1500, eg. Lemond Sarthe.

 

[sanjuro]

I too have been looking at getting a road bike this year, and the two biggest reccomendations I've received is to ask your LBS or another nearby LBS to get a fit kit. I'm told it costs about 50 clams but its the best thing you could ever do before buying a roadbike. What they do is take your measurements and tell you the different dimensions that are important for you. There's so many more important things than the standover height of your roadbike, since you spend much more time in the saddle in the same position.

The other piece of advice is a site www.wrenchscience.com I've never checked them out but apparently they do the same thing, you just give them your measurements.

I should point out one thing: I have seen measurement vary widely depending on the competency of the person. Take the your arm length. Typically it is measured from your shoulder bone to the center of your fist at a 45 degree angle. But I have seen different measurements of the same arm because of the angle or where the measurer locates the shoulder bone.

Even the inseam is difficult because of the tool you use. For examle, the dictionary method is going to give you a different number than just using a measuring tape.

 

[MMcG]

Andyman - I can't remember the exact weight of my Jamis Quest but I guess it's somewhere around 19 or 20 pounds - maybe 21.

I suspect you could find a nice used road bike that is around 18 pounds if you are looking for something that is lighter than your Ti mountain bike.

What's your budget for a road bike??