[erikkellison]

Okay, so this is getting freaking frustrating. My brakes engage solidly when the they do, but I have to move the lever 1 & 1/2" in order to get that solid feeling of brake engagement. My Hope Mono M4's only move about an inch before engagement. I bled the brakes with the pads in, rotors on, all attached and ready on bike, with the FCS adjuster all the way out. I sucked fluid from opposite sides in order to remove air from the system as well as replace the fluid. After reinstalling the set screws and turning the FCS adjuster all the way in, they still don't engage quickly. Help?
On a related note, this last time when I was bleeding them, there was some air sneaking out of the master cylinder (where it butts up against the bar) when I pushed on the lever or the syringe, but no actual fluid leaked out. Made me suspicious, but I'm quite sure that there's no air in the system.
Also, when I have the bleed syringe installed, and I suck fluid out at the caliper (per the instructions), a lot of air comes out every time. I mean A LOT. I don't understand where this air is coming from. It makes me fear that there is a leak in the system. I did this because the instructions say to do so, but the air never goes away - I repeat and repeat and the air keeps flowing. Yes, I have the system installed snugly, and there are no leaks that I can find.
So, I was thinking that maybe the next time I bleed them, I can do just the lever side - then I can squeeze the lever to move the pads in a little, and then top off the fluid with the lever partway squeezed - maybe this will reset that point to be "zero", sort of like taring the engagement point? I'm not sure if this will work, but I'm running out of ideas.
The only part I'm not following the instructions exactly is where they say to have the lever completely vertical. Mine is MOSTLY vertical, but not perfect (as that would entail some crazy bike position.
So, mine definitely don't have any air in the system, but they don't engage quick enough, which leads to fatigue, and sometimes unpredictable panic stops. Do anyone's One's actually engage quickly?

On yet another side note: anyone know where the replacement disc pads are actually in stock? All the shops, distributors and online retails are all out of stock. Kool Stop also makes them for the One's/Mega's, but they don't respond to my emails. My pads are getting low...

Read on only if you're interested in details.
A stepwise account of the bleeding procedure for the edification of the masses:

• Position bike in stand so that fluid drip from caliper does not contaminate pads/rotors, and so that the bike is nearly vertical (so that the lever is pointing nearly vertical (per the instructions).
• "Unscrew" the FCS adjuster so that the lever has to be pulled farther for engagement to occur. It's worth nothing that the FCS adjusters are basically screws, so that you're rotating the right lever's FCS adjuster to the bottom of the lever for this step (and to the top for quicker engagement), and rotating the left lever's FCS adjuster to the top of the lever for this step (and to the top for quicker engagement).
• Suck up 20mL (full) DOT fluid into one syringe, and about 3mL into the other syringe.
• Remove the tiny set screw in the caliper, place finger over hole, and then quickly insert bleed screw/syringe with 20ml of fluid so that minimal leakage occurs.
• Snug up fitting (quite tight) with 8mm wrench.
• Remove Screw from lever body and screw in bleed syringe with 3mL of fluid.
• Position both syringes vertically so that air is not sucked into the system.
• Pull on the syringe at the lever in order to move fluid from the syringe at the caliper end into the system, effectively replacing the fluid and sucking out air.
• Pull on the syringe at the caliper in order to move fluid back from the syringe at the lever into the system, effectively replacing old fluid, but more importantly, removing more air.
• Repead a couple more times - make sure that the last "pull" is done at the lever side so that new fluid is left in the system.
• At this point I am supposed to squeeze the lever tight and pull on the syringe at the caliper in order to suck more air out of the system, but squeezing my lever (TIGHT) and pulling on the syringe still manages to pull fluid out of the syringe at the lever. The idea is that squeezing the lever is supposed to isolate the caliper/hose from the master cylinder, so that I'm pulling on a closed system when I pull on the caliper syringe, but it doesn't work. Fluid slowly (slower than normal) still leaks by. So I skip this step. Also, when I try it, as I mentioned in the thread, air keeps coming out of the caliper - it's as if the "negative pressure" is creating air. The problem with this step is that the continuously created air bubbles don't stop, so that when I have pulled the syringe all the way out, air bubbles are still coming out rapidly, so that when I need to release the plunger to equalize pressure for syringe removal, air is sucked back in to the caliper. I certainly don't want that...
• So, instead I just use the 8mm to loosen the fitting at the caliper side, having the set screw on the screwdriver ready to go as soon as I remove the bleed syringe. I screw in the set screw quite tightly because I find that it leaks if I don't.
• I then push on the syringe plunger at the lever side (which does very little), then loosen and remove that syringe, replacing it with the screw - do this quickly as well becuase a little fluid always wants to leak out.
• I then screw in the FCS adjuster so that I'm getting maximum engagement.
• After all this, the lever still moves 1.5" before engagement.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG???

 

[The Breaker Man]

Do you still have the tiny little small almost invisible o-ring that goes on the caliper bleed set screw?? I almost lost mine since I am used to bleeding Avids. The set screw looks the same, but uses an o-ring to seal up.
Another thing: Going from juicy 7's and Codes on my other bikes, the Formula The One levers do have to be set out a little farther to accommodate their modulation. I got used to it quickly and have not experienced any fatigue because of it.
RJ

 

[[un]]

you can also twist a metallic wire over the clear tubes in order to prevent residual leakage from the syringe/fittings. Zip ties should work too. Basically creating a secure seal betweem the clear tubes and syringe/fittings.

When are the manufacturers going to make bleeding as easy as replacing batteries! Or no bleeding necessary at all

 

[Eastern States Cup]

I got oem pads at go-ride.com last week

 

[S.K.C.]

erik - I experienced the same issues with my ONE's - the lever throw was too long for my tastes.

Went through all the bleeding procedures using an Avid Bleed Kit - got frustrated, tried it over and over different ways, etc.

...until I found out that I had not addressed the most basic question: What about the rotors?!

I was using my old Hayes V-8 rotors with my ONE's instead of the Formula Oro rotors (which were on my race wheelset, so I hadn't really used them yet that early this season)

What I discovered: My Hayes rotors were much thinner than the Formula Oro rotors - this translated into a horrendous lever feel at the bar. While sighting down the center of the caliper I noticed a huge gap of space on either side of the Hayes rotor between the surface of the rotor and the pads.

When I put on my race wheelset with the Formula rotors - the lever feel was perfect! The pads didn't have that far to travel to engage the rotor surface which in turn meant the lever didn't have to be pulled as far. I've got Formula Oro rotors on all my wheels now and everything seems fine. When the pads wear down, the lever throw will start to increase again, but this seems to happen with most brakes anyway.

*NOTE: As a note to Formula - the Pad Contact Adjuster could be a bit more effective and have more adjustability/tuning range to get the pads closer to the rotor as the pads wear down. I have mine dimed-out all the way "IN" and when the pads wear down, it still doesn't seem like enough to keep the lever throw from being a bit excessive.

I you still have issues - send them to Formula and ask for Chris - he's awesome to deal with and does an amazing bleed job and set-up. Turn around is pretty good too (about 2 - 5 days).

Hope this helps.

 

[Kanye West]

Yeah Formula rotors are WAY thicker and don't warp as easy (sorry weight weenies). A good trick is to remove the caliper from the rotor (or vice versa) and give the lever two pumps. It doesn't move the pads in much at all, but it gets rid of a lot of the lever throw. Makes the Mega's engage similar to the older Saints. Much more positive feel.

 

[al-irl]

have to second the take the wheels out and give the levers a little pump trick.

 

[erikkellison]

Thanks for all the feedback! Indeed, I haven't been experiencing much fatigue as my much-more-seasoned riding buddies have been having more hand-fatigue issues than I have since I got these brakes. But I also got a Socom, so I can't say it's just the brakes. I will definitely give the "remove rotors (which are Formula, BTW) and pump twice" trick. If that doesn't work, I'll definitely send them back to Formula. Brakes this expensive should work like a charm.
As for the pads, Go-Ride does not even have them listed on their website.
And as for that little O-ring? Never saw it, which would explain the ridiculous amout of torque required to prevent leakage.

 

[S.K.C.]

Thanks for all the feedback! Indeed, I haven't been experiencing much fatigue as my much-more-seasoned riding buddies have been having more hand-fatigue issues than I have since I got these brakes. But I also got a Socom, so I can't say it's just the brakes. I will definitely give the "remove rotors (which are Formula, BTW) and pump twice" trick. If that doesn't work, I'll definitely send them back to Formula. Brakes this expensive should work like a charm.
As for the pads, Go-Ride does not even have them listed on their website.

And as for that little O-ring? Never saw it, which would explain the ridiculous amout of torque required to prevent leakage.

OK - that's a serious problem if you want your brakes bled properly. Mine also came without the O-rings on the bleed-port screw at the caliper. I'd send them back to Formula to get them installed along with a proper bleed. Then try the "remove the wheel and pump the lever 2x" trick to get the pads where you want em'.

Hope this helps!

 

[- seb]

I didn't bother reading all of that, but if your pads are wearing low I think that might be the problem, I've noticed the same on my Ones, they don't seem to have enough reservoir/range to accommodate fully for pad wear, making you buy new pads prematurely, which is a bit annoying! Shame, because they're great in all other aspects!

 

[erikkellison]

Just got off the phone with Formula. They're pretty easy to deal with. They just got the pads in stock again, and though my LBS' distributor doesn't have them yet, Formula was able to sell them to me direct. They also are sending me the O-rings that I need. And they seconded the tip of removing the rotor and squeezing the lever (though they said to only squeeze the lever once). Perfect timing too, as the weekend at Whistler pretty much obliterated my pads.

 

[The Breaker Man]

Yeah, I almost missed those dumb little o-rings. I noticed when I bled the caliper air would just keep coming, and then I went back to the caliper and it was full of air. Looked around and found the o-ring on the shop floor.

 

[yumseyo]

Hello,

When you found the o rings, how many were there? One on each side of the banjo fitting? Thanks..Don

 

[erikkellison]

The O-ring we speak of is in between the banjo fitting and the bleed port set screw. It is the same as on Avids, and Hayes actually use the same O-Ring on some of their brakes on a tiny bolt. I never actually took the banjo fitting off to find out what's inside, but if you're curious, you should look at the exploded view of the brake in the technical documents on Formula's website.

 

[Udi]

The O-ring we speak of is in between the banjo fitting and the bleed port set screw. It is the same as on Avids

Pretty sure that's not true, the avids use a tapered grub screw to provide the seal for the bleed port at the caliper (banjo) end. At the lever end the bleed screws have o-rings (but these screws go into the lever body, not the hose fittings).

 

[erikkellison]

Pretty sure that's not true, the avids use a tapered grub screw to provide the seal for the bleed port at the caliper (banjo) end. At the lever end the bleed screws have o-rings (but these screws go into the lever body, not the hose fittings).

I'm not sure if what I said is true with all Avid's, but I just happened to have an Avid Juicy Ultimate right next to me. I unscrewed the "tapered grub screw" that is identical to the "tapered grub screw" on my Formula The One's, and just like my One's, there's the same O-ring behind the "tapered grub screw" providing a seal. Yes, I'm talking about the caliper end. At the lever end, the One's have a cap screw with the same size torx head that screws in flush and uses an O-ring seated on the cap screw right below the head. The Avid has the exact same setup, but it looks like the Avid has a slightly larger screw than the One's. But to be clear, on the caliper end, everything looks identical.
It's worth nothing that while I have a Formula bleed kit for my One's, I've been told that I could use an Avid bleed kit just the same.

 

[Udi]

You must be right then, I've never seen an o-ring in my ultimates, I guess it's just never come out.

I'm presuming this is separate to the two o-rings that seal the bolt to the banjo and the banjo to the caliper, so this little o-ring must reside inside the banjo bolt.

 

[cableguy]

My Carbon Juicys have no o-rings on the bleed screw at the caliper end. But 2 o-rings with the banjo bolt. And the bleed screw on the lever has o-rings.

My Ones have o-rings on both lever and calipers I believe.

 

[ROTFLMAO]

Very little pressure is needed to properly bleed these brakes. When pulling to remove air you just need to create a very slight vacuum. Too much and you'll start pulling air from between the bleed fitting's threads or the seal to the hose. You can also deform the bladder in the reservoir. Think slow and light when bleeding, finesse not force.

Removing the wheel and giving a pump or two firms them right up. I personally like the long throw and excellent modulation.

 

[Biffff]

Very little pressure is needed to properly bleed these brakes. When pulling to remove air you just need to create a very slight vacuum. Too much and you'll start pulling air from between the bleed fitting's threads or the seal to the hose. You can also deform the bladder in the reservoir. Think slow and light when bleeding, finesse not force.

Removing the wheel and giving a pump or two firms them right up. I personally like the long throw and excellent modulation.

I tried this technique with my Ones and had no success. Its not just the long throw. With that technique air was getting in the system when I disconnected the syring. This always resulted in a hydro brake with air in the lines...inconsistent lever....soft one minute and hard the next.
After bleeding the caliper and line I experimented with pulling on the syringe at the lever to suck the air out like the instructions say, and then I pushed some fluid in, then disconnected the syringe filling the bleed port at the same time and put the bleed port screw back in. My brakes are awesome now. Nice firm lever with the right amount of throw. I can flip the bike upside down, sideways or what ever and I don't loose the lever. Pure joy for over a month now.
Another tip is to full on that damn syring for a long time. Just when you think you all the air out guess what........there's more.

 

[erikkellison]

Just an update.
I got a second set of One's for my trail bike to replace my M4's, and oh, I got to experience this thread all over again! But after pulling on the syringe at the caliper end for freaking ever until no air came out, sealing it off with the grub screw, pulling on the lever end until no air came out, pushing fluid in to really pressurize the system, quickly installing the lever cap screw, and pumping the lever with the bleed block removed, I am not happy with my <1" lever throw! I had to get it to the point where I had pumped the lever so much that it was difficult to squeeze the pads in, but once I got them in there and squeezed the lever a few times, the rotor spins freely and the brakes grab immediately. Now I can have my lever reach adjustment screwed all the way in and my levers simply cannot be pulled to the bar. Good times!

 

[Eastern States Cup]

After several tries I got the perfect bleed by following the directions on the website and the suggestions on this forum. Patience was the key.

Thank You

 

[OBB]

Here's a bleed tip that works for anyone trying to shorten the throw on any brakeset.

Take 3-4 business cards and put them in between the pads. Squeeze the brake lever until the caliper pistons work their way out and clamp onto the business cards. Release brake lever, and voila, you've set the proper piston positioning. Now bleed the brakes to remove any air and you're set!

Mechanically, you're limited to a certain amount of throw to ensure the pads reset themselves properly to avoid disc rubbing. The above trick will keep the pads closer to the rotor, maybe even rubbing a little, but not so much as to be noticeable. It creates a nice short lever throw that sometimes can't be achieved with just turning the adjuster.

 

[ridingsupreme]

Call formula, its not rocket science. (seems to be the trendy smart as$ remarkl lol)

I've called them concerning this issue because I like my brakes to engage in the first inch of pull as well. They told me the brakes aren't designed for that however you can use a trick (without bleeding) to make them do so. (works for me every time they pull in too far.)

its easy to do;

ethier pull the wheel off or unbolt the caliper from the mount. Pull the lever all the way to the bar. (trust me sounds stupid but it works!)

repeat step one 2-10 times depending on pad wear and desired feel. I would check the engagement every couple pulls just by placing the caliper on the rotor by hand (no need to bolt on again at this point.)

once desired pull is reached simply bolt on and your done!

its really quite simple and has always worked for me.

I wouldn't bleed my own brakes if you paid me. I only trust the guys at Formula to do my brakes. (I don't even let the local shop touch my brakes.) They're service department is great and fast and from the time I ship out and get them back is about 5 days and I use ground shipping. it helps that i'm in cali tho.

anyway my point is that they're super awesome guys so just give um a call if you have a question. but don't act like a smart ass and they will explain it in detail. just ask the right questions and stuff.

like I said. Its not rocket science. The ONE's are just as simple if not more so than the other brakes on the market. The only difference is they work better than all the other bull out there.

 

[gixme]

http://www.ride-this.com/index.php/kool-stop-disc-pads-formula-megaoner1-sintered.html

The Kool-Stop pads work great and are cheaper then OEM by a fair amount.

 

[OB1]

Thread sounds dead...so I guess it's ok to derail a little. Anyone else use those "cheap" ONE pads in bulk from ebay? I took the bait, and had a heck of a time. Caliper can't seem to go in enough to clear the rotor. I know the rotor is thicker with the ONE's. So I can only guess that wasn't accounted for. After getting frustraded...I bought some stock forumula pads. They dropped right in. I've had Hayes generic pads in past systems that worked better than stock. That is..."stickier." Any non-stock ONE pads out there like that???

 

[Eastern States Cup]

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/International-Bike-Disc-Brake-Pads__W0QQ_armrsZ1

 

[OB1]

Come on now. No need for that. No need to post a link to point the finger at the company who sold me the pads. I'm not here to bash anyone. So, has anyone had personal experience with alternatives like the Kool Stops? I'd rather talk about pads that people like, than go on about pads that didn't work for me.

 

[gixme]

I like the Kool Stops a lot and others have reported positive experience with Goodridge. In the States I think Kool Stops are easier to get and like I said the price is good. I have resigned myself to the fact that my Megas are the worst "parking-lot test" brakes ever, you can't appreciate them unless you are going down a mountain. They squeal and feel weak just putting around at low speeds.

 

[OB1]

Thats a bummer. I've had great luck with my ONE's. They have been strong since I got them (10 months). I've contaminated bads and rotors at times. But thats human error. When I don't screw them up...they are extremely strong, and no piggy sounds. I might give those Kool Stops a shot. I go through pads way too quick. Mostly because of contamination. But I just love how shinny Pam makes my rotors.

 

[profro]

Just to update this based on my experience with some new ones. With brand new pads and a fresh bleed the lever throw was too much. So I tried taking the wheel out and pumping the lever and wha - la the lever throw was shortened and firm. Great trick!

 

[- seb]

My update is that I've now been rocking these brakes for 2 years, and other than an initial bleed when I shortened my hoses, I've NEVER needed to bleed them. Easily the most reliable/consistent brake I've ever owned!