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bored and solidworks =

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
Just killing time. It's designed to use a jack shaft or dual sprocket set up.
seat mast, BB and HA are all adjustable. The main pivot uses BB cups, blah, blah, blah..........
65 HA
13.8" BB
17" CS

7" on a 8.75 shock

 
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offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
It's 2007 SP4

The pivot and this frame are a 3rd vesion of the frame below. I was looking for a certain ratio and still have all the same appointments of a rearward axle path, good shock clearance, 26" stand over and most important, the ease of manufacturing. I was just trying to not design the same system I already have 10x's over.

I have about got what I believe to be a close to buildable version done that does away with the jack shaft and uber high pivot. I realized I had way too much weight up high and too much CNC work needed.

 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,083
24,611
media blackout
I only asked about the version because that animation looks like a rendering from a dated piece of software. Or maybe I've just gotten to used to SW2k8.

That being said, I am VERY intrigued by that design. Why did you choose a 2.75" stroke? With some tweaking, I'm sure you could get more travel out of it with the use of a longer stroke shock, or are there serious clearance issues by using a floating shock?

Also, since you have a floating shock you'd be able to build a lighter front end since it doesn't have to handle the suspension loads (take a look at the new C'Dale designs - the moto is the one I'm thinking of).
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
Yeah, I compressed the hell out of that avi so I could mail it. 2007 will do a better render than that....sort of.

The floating shock version (v2) uses a 9.5" shock and could get almost 9" of travel. There where clearance issues though, and I would have had to use a remote reservoir or raise the stand over. It just had too much mass and movement at crotch level..

Here is the most plausible version I think. I'll just use a pulley system at the pivot
83 - 150
9x3" shock
8" travel
no CNC work needed, but will have to have it for the weight reliefs.


 

Total Heckler

Beer and Bike Enthusiast
Apr 28, 2005
8,171
189
Santa Cruz, CA
I don't know anything about suspension and frame design, but wouldn't the tire be hitting the frame and/or seat when the suspension is compressed?
 
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FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
I have been playing around with a design much like that. The only difference is I am using a simple pulley to keep chain growth down and pedal feedback at 0. Something you might want to think about that I have done with my design is use a Split Pivot at the axle and have the rear brake mount on the lower linkage to get rid of brake jack. This way you can get rid of the floater and save weight. Good luck with it. I have to save up some more before I try to build mine.

Here:

 
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dirtdigger

Monkey
Mar 18, 2007
126
0
N.zud
Yeah, I compressed the hell out of that avi so I could mail it. 2007 will do a better render than that....sort of.

The floating shock version (v2) uses a 9.5" shock and could get almost 9" of travel. There where clearance issues though, and I would have had to use a remote reservoir or raise the stand over. It just had too much mass and movement at crotch level..

Here is the most plausible version I think. I'll just use a pulley system at the pivot
83 - 150
9x3" shock
8" travel
no CNC work needed, but will have to have it for the weight reliefs.


Well that the same suspension platform that i use on my bikes and it works bloody awesome aye!
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,742
475
good luck finding a damper/spring combo for that 53% rising rate
You mean approximately the same rate/curve that is used on a DHR/R9/El Cuervo/Giant DH/F5/anything else with a linkage? That's a much more organized curve than something like a V10 or a Sunday...
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,787
4,733
Champery, Switzerland
Hey FCLinder

It looks like your shock will not clear the main pivot. I like the design but there are some clearance issues it seems to me.


I have been playing around with a design much like that. The only difference is I am using a simple pulley to keep chain growth down and pedal feedback at 0. Something you might want to think about that I have done with my design is use a Split Pivot at the axle and have the rear brake mount on the lower linkage to get rid of brake jack. This way you can get rid of the floater and save weight. Good luck with it. I have to save up some more before I try to build mine.

Here:

 

theOtherMrT

Chimp
Nov 30, 2004
44
0
socal
You mean approximately the same rate/curve that is used on a DHR/R9/El Cuervo/Giant DH/F5/anything else with a linkage? That's a much more organized curve than something like a V10 or a Sunday...
if by approximate you mean ~20% to 30% for those mentioned bikes is about the same as 50% then yes
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,742
475
What % are you referring to? Percent grade of the slope? That graph has a lot of vertical exaggeration you know and overall/instant rate of change wouldn't mean much here as the values are arbitrary against one another....

2.4 x 2 /= 3.6
 

theOtherMrT

Chimp
Nov 30, 2004
44
0
socal
3.6/2.3 = 1.565
56.5% rising rate based on the starting and ending points of the supplied graph of the instantaneous leverage ratio
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,742
475
Gotcha. Don't normally look at it that way. I think the DHR's are still more similar to that one than you're thinking. Why would it be hard to find a damper that would handle that?
 

djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
Something you might want to think about that I have done with my design is use a Split Pivot at the axle and have the rear brake mount on the lower linkage to get rid of brake jack. This way you can get rid of the floater and save weight.
I do not understand this. As long as the brake is attached to a part that is also attached to the linkage then it influences the suspension while under braking forces would be my guess.

With a real floater you have a rod that directs al the braking forces into the frame, and it will only work when it makes a parallelogram.
 

theOtherMrT

Chimp
Nov 30, 2004
44
0
socal
Gotcha. Don't normally look at it that way. I think the DHR's are still more similar to that one than you're thinking. Why would it be hard to find a damper that would handle that?
most manufacturers of rear damper units for mtb's suggest a rate change of no more than ~30% or else it's outside the effective damping range. just some extra cocktail party info: when designing around a fox dhx air the lev rate can't go under ~2.4, and also +/- 4% in the rate progressivity is considered constant
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
Yeah, I compressed the hell out of that avi so I could mail it. 2007 will do a better render than that....sort of.

The floating shock version (v2) uses a 9.5" shock and could get almost 9" of travel. There where clearance issues though, and I would have had to use a remote reservoir or raise the stand over. It just had too much mass and movement at crotch level..

Here is the most plausible version I think. I'll just use a pulley system at the pivot
83 - 150
9x3" shock
8" travel
no CNC work needed, but will have to have it for the weight reliefs.




Hey you just designed a Sunn Radical, with a higher pivot. It should work pretty well i know my Sunn rocks. You might be able to get the pivot a bit lower though
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
well since my whole idea was to try something a little different and i have obviously just modified some existing designs, i decided to go back and simplify the floater idea. Not that that hasn't been done, but i have designed with "buildable" as my #1 priority.
No jack shaft, just a pulley and all the other typical DH measurements.

8.2" travel

The model is using 2.5mm wall tubing and 12.5mm plate everywhere else. i have the shock body spec'd as chrome and as is, the mass calculates to just at 9lbs.
I would guess that with reliefs and the added weight of bearings and bolts I could get around 11lbs.....or so.


 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
2.5mm is very thick! even 2mm is very thick..

you could check the easton site for drawings of butted tubes for DH bikes to get an idea of what will be strong enough. then you can order similar tubes from a huge range at www.fairing.com . Easton will not deal with small orders, these guys will.
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
LMC - Thanks for the link. I was just designing around materials I already have, but if and when i get serious about building the frame I will look into the Easton tubes. I have over built everything for now. I just want to get a feel for the process and how the suspension will perform, then I'll get in deep. Once I find a CNC connection i'll go back and run FEA on all the parts and thin them down.

jK - That is the one area of design I just couldn't get around. I have shortened the lower link as much as this design would allow while still using a 9.5" shock. I've already started working on protection for that area though...taco's anyone?

Kona - With 3406 post on an internet forum i guess we both have a lot of time on our hands. You know what they say about idle hands.

Keep the comments coming.
 

dirtdigger

Monkey
Mar 18, 2007
126
0
N.zud
I can see a few issues and things that will need some more work with your design and layout, now i could teel you but part of the fun is finding things that make you go "OH F%$K" then try and design your way out :banghead:

have fun!!
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
blong: Thanks, I'm at work.

FS: Yeah, the idea was concentric chain line, but I haven't worked out the top pulley situation. I could either use a dual sprocket and get no chain growth, or an Idler pulley/single chain system. The idler pulley system would be a little lighter and easier to implement, but I have about 3" of chain growth to deal with....good times.
 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
blong: Thanks, I'm at work.

FS: Yeah, the idea was concentric chain line, but I haven't worked out the top pulley situation. I could either use a dual sprocket and get no chain growth, or an Idler pulley/single chain system. The idler pulley system would be a little lighter and easier to implement, but I have about 3" of chain growth to deal with....good times.
i think i would go with the dual sprocket if i was in your shoes, you will then need an eccentric bb to tighten the primary chain, but these can be purchased from phil wood online. you will then be able to adjust the BB height by adding/removing links in the chain.

youd need to fashion a chain device to keep the secondary chain on but that wont be too hard.


as regards the cnc contact, you could try engineering students, or cnc operators at a local college/university. slip a brown envelope with green notes inside in his direction and you could have alot of work done on the cheap. ;)