[Spunger]

Ok, so I got it coated with a lather of grease. I got the drive side cup in and it's sitting flush with the shell. How tight do I tighten the Drive side cup to? I have a torque wrench and looked up specs and it's around 30 ft lbs. (well the average of the 2 numbers given for torque spec). So If I tighten the drive side cup to 30 ft lbs......

What do I tighten the non-driveside to? I know on my other bike I tried to tighten it to 30ft lbs and the bottom bracket didn't move. So I just sorta cinched it down and it's been fine.

Any help would be great! Everything is faced/chased, threads are excellent. Bottom bracket is a FSA plat. 73-113mm length.

 

[binary visions]

My FSA Platinum Pro siezes up if I tighten the non-drive side cup down too much. I turn the BB tool until it's hand-tight, then give it a bit more with the wrench. Seems to hold it in place fine and keeps my spindle turning smoothly.

 

[Spunger]

So I should torque the drive side cup to like 30 ft lbs and the non-drive side cup to hand tight, then like add 1/2 a turn and be done?

 

[binary visions]

So I should torque the drive side cup to like 30 ft lbs and the non-drive side cup to hand tight, then like add 1/2 a turn and be done?

That's what I do for my FSA Plat.

My other bottom brackets could be torqued down heavily on the non-drive side cup, but not this one.

You can add or subtract a little torque as necessary - just go by how smoothly the spindle rotates. If it starts to get tight, stop or back off a little.

 

[biggins]

you will be fine without throwin the torque wrench on it. just torque the drive side and tighten the non-drive until you are comfortable that it is not going to come loose. if you overtighten you will feel it like BV said.

 

[Spunger]

OK.......so if I got this right? When you tighten down the drive side cup and torque it (or get close to what it's torque is suspose to be) when you go to tighten the non-drive side cup it's pulling on the drive side as well right? So the more torque you place on the non-driveside should hold the bottom bracket in anways right?

I got the drive side one in tight. The non-drive side I'm sure is tight enough, the bearings still spin smooth and such. The non-drive side cup doesn't have a flange that sits against the frame (like the driveside does) so I tightened it until it stopped on the bottom bracket and gave it a good 1/2 turn more and left it. I dunno I guess if it loosens up then I'll torque it down again but I definately don't want to strip the threads to anything.

Just out of curiousity is it easy to strip the threads in a BB? I'm talking if everything is chased/faced correctly and stright, are the threads in a BB pretty strong?

So.......got the BB on. Wasn't too bad but with stupid bike parts I'm always worried about stripping something (like tightening something too much) especially in the BB area. I've had a non-drive side cup come loose but I don't think it was tight enough to begin with. Hopefully this doesn't happen on this bike!

 

[binary visions]

No, the non-drive side doesn't "pull it tight" - your drive side torque is holding the drive side in, the non-drive side is just supporting the other side of the BB.

No, it's not easy to strip. I torque mine waay past spec, a practice I wouldn't recommend, but it works well for me.

 

[Wumpus]

Just out of curiousity is it easy to strip the threads in a BB? I'm talking if everything is chased/faced correctly and stright, are the threads in a BB pretty strong?

I've never stripped one, but it is pretty easy to crossthread the cups/BB. Make sure that everything is going in straight by hand. I usually try to go at least half way in before using any sorts of tools. Never use tools to start the cups.

 

[sanjuro]

No, the non-drive side doesn't "pull it tight" - your drive side torque is holding the drive side in, the non-drive side is just supporting the other side of the BB.

No, it's not easy to strip. I torque mine waay past spec, a practice I wouldn't recommend, but it works well for me.

You are never touching my Ti/Carbon bikes!

 

[Spunger]

Everything does go in by hand all the way to the stop. Everything is so greasy though since I put on tons of lube (yeah i know sounds sick) but at about 2/3 of the way in I have to use the ISIS tool to keep it going.

I know the drive side is in there but I'm gonna go torque the non-drive side one down a little bit at a time to make sure it gets to a torque that I like. I dunno how correct FSA is but on all BB's I've seen the instructions to they want you to torque both cups to like 30-35ft lbs. I brought the drive side to that torque but I'm going to go slow on the non-drive side and just see how tight it gets before the bearings start to spin hard (without going over their spec'ed torque) and be done.

If the non-drive side isn't pulling the other side tight why do the bearings feel like crap when you over-tighten the non-drive side? I get what you're saying though how it just supports that side of the BB and gives "preload" after it's tightened down.

Thanks for the help guys! This is the first full bike I'm building myself so the little things help. All I am waiting for now is the chainguide and ring, and then set the shifting up and I'm done If I run into anything else funny I'll post back and see if I can get some more help.

 

[Zookster]

I know not everyone will agree with me on this one, but I would not use grease on your BB threads. I would actually remove all traces of grease, and I mean all. Clean with degreaser and alcohol to make sure threads are totally clean. You might at this point have the threads chased again.

Now put some Loctite on the threads and start again.

I look at it this way, when you buy a new BB the manufacture has already put some Loctite on the threads, it’s usually never enough though. If they wanted you to use grease wouldn’t they put grease on the threads instead of the Loctite? And greasing the threads defeats the purpose of using Loctite.

 

[binary visions]

I know not everyone will agree with me on this one, but I would not use grease on your BB threads. I would actually remove all traces of grease, and I mean all. Clean with degreaser and alcohol to make sure threads are totally clean. You might at this point have the threads chased again.

Now put some Loctite on the threads and start again.

I look at it this way, when you buy a new BB the manufacture has already put some Loctite on the threads, it’s usually never enough though. If they wanted you to use grease wouldn’t they put grease on the threads instead of the Loctite? And greasing the threads defeats the purpose of using Loctite.

I disagree with using loctite on BB threads. I've actually never seen a BB manufacturer put loctite on the threads - they usually put grease or a teflon compound. Are you absolutely sure that you've seen a bottom bracket come with loctite on it, or did you just see the blue coloring and assume it was? I'd be interested to know what manufacturer you're talking about. I've had bottom brackets from Shimano, FSA, Race Face and Truvativ, and none of them have had Loctite on the threads - a couple have had a small amount of blue teflon material in the threads.

The point of loctite is to prevent threaded pieces from backing out. Bottom brackets are torqued heavily enough that they shouldn't back out. The point of grease is to fill in all of the minute gaps and pockets in the threads to prevent water and dirt from getting in and keep the threads from siezing. Considering how much water and dirt the bottom bracket is bombarded with, doesn't it make sense to do that? Why wouldn't you want grease there?

If the non-drive side isn't pulling the other side tight why do the bearings feel like crap when you over-tighten the non-drive side?

I assume because they aren't quite designed properly or the tolerances aren't quite there and the non-drive side cup is actually putting pressure on the bearings.

You are never touching my Ti/Carbon bikes!

Oh, I'd never do that on a super lightweight bike or anything Ti or carbon. But I usually over-torque bottom brackets on freeride or DH bikes. Bad practice, I know, but it's just always been something that has worked for me.

 

[Zookster]

I disagree with using loctite on BB threads. I've actually never seen a BB manufacturer put loctite on the threads - they usually put grease or a teflon compound. Are you absolutely sure that you've seen a bottom bracket come with loctite on it, or did you just see the blue coloring and assume it was? I'd be interested to know what manufacturer you're talking about. I've had bottom brackets from Shimano, FSA, Race Face and Truvativ, and none of them have had Loctite on the threads - a couple have had a small amount of blue teflon material in the threads.

The point of loctite is to prevent threaded pieces from backing out. Bottom brackets are torqued heavily enough that they shouldn't back out. The point of grease is to fill in all of the minute gaps and pockets in the threads to prevent water and dirt from getting in and keep the threads from siezing. Considering how much water and dirt the bottom bracket is bombarded with, doesn't it make sense to do that? Why wouldn't you want grease there?

Well that’s not blue Teflon, that’s Loctite!

If you would like some further info on this I would recommend calling John Barnett at the Barnett’s Bicycle Institute in Colorado Springs. He is the one who got me started on the Loctite.

Why use grease to keep dirt out? All it does is collect dirt! And as far as water goes grease is not water resistant and actually gets contaminated by water and starts breaking down in water.

Also with using grease or oil on bolts it can affect your torque ranges. Being the bolts twist with less friction you can actually over torque a bolt quite easily.

I would rather see an Anti-seize compound used before grease.

 

[binary visions]

Well that’s not blue Teflon, that’s Loctite!

Well. I'm not going to argue this point with you. The stuff I've seen ain't loctite - I've done enough wrenching to know how a part with loctite goes in - you can feel the difference. There is also a visible difference. Regardless...

If you would like some further info on this I would recommend calling John Barnett at the Barnett’s Bicycle Institute in Colorado Springs. He is the one who got me started on the Loctite.

I certainly respect Barnett's reputation. I'll have to do some further research on this - I don't usually leave something like this up to one guy's opinion, though, so I probably won't call Barnett, since you've already told me where he stands

And as far as water goes grease is not water resistant and actually gets contaminated by water and starts breaking down in water.

... I just did a couple quick Google searches but I'm not returning a lot of good results and don't have time to crawl through them at the moement. Got a link or something to back this up? I specifically buy and use high quality grease that is designated as waterproof. I realize this doesn't mean it won't eventually break down (waterproof is a misleading term, it should be labeled as "water resistant" or maybe "water repellant"), but I've always been under the impression that it resists breaking down under water during normal exposure.

I'd be interested to hear proof otherwise.

 

[Zookster]

Upon checking some info on the web, I noticed how anytime Loctite is mentioned with the BB it also mentions grease as another means of installation. So I was unable to find anything specifically telling you to just use Loctite or to just use Grease.

I do believe however that with a Ti frame you would want to use grease to prevent galvanic corrosion (I believe that’s the term). This is the corrosion bond that occurs between different metal types; it will latterly bond in the BB and make it all but impossible to remove.

I know a lot of people use grease on the BB to stop it from creaking. Well this creaking is caused by parts moving around and rubbing. Grease only lubricates the moving parts so you don’t hear the creaks. With Loctite you are actually stopping the parts from moving. I guess either is an appropriate means to install BB’s I just find Loctite to be my personal preference.

Side Note: You would not want to use Loctite on a plastic cup as it can deteriorate the plastic, here grease is recommended.

 

[Natedogg]

I know this thread is a few months old, but Im searching for BB info and happened to be running across the answer to some of these questions...

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/2002_bb-e.pdf

Although I agree that I do not understand why someone would say "put loctite on it, and then grease it" that is exactly what Truvativ is saying in this manual (Step 1: grease threads of frame; Step 3: apply loctite to cups)...

So... Binary, I would say that the loctite looking stuff on the threads of Truvativ bbs *is* loctite...

 

[binary visions]

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/2002_bb-e.pdf

Although I agree that I do not understand why someone would say "put loctite on it, and then grease it" that is exactly what Truvativ is saying in this manual (Step 1: grease threads of frame; Step 3: apply loctite to cups)...

So... Binary, I would say that the loctite looking stuff on the threads of Truvativ bbs *is* loctite...

There's nothing in that manual that indicates the BBs come pre-prepped with loctite, and I don't think it was Truvativ BBs that I've seen come pre-prepped anyway. I can't remember if it was my RaceFace or Shimano BBs that came with some teflon tape on it. It may also have been an OEM part (I buy a lot of those) which means that it may be prepped differently from a retail part.

Thanks for the link, though. I'm not sure it actually wraps this thread up, as nothing in there indicates that the threads are pre-prepped with loctite - actually it indicates that the threads are not pre-prepped, otherwise it would not tell you to add more.

Anyhow, good information to add and a good bump - maybe someone else can add more?

 

[Natedogg]

I guess I may as well post my BB question in here, as I cant find anything by searching that is quite right...

I usually install my own BBs and never have too much of a problem. Today I ripped it apart because there was some sqeaking in the BB. I pulled the BB and although I could tell there was some grit in the bearings, it seemed to spin fairly well. I lubed everything up and popped it back in. When I torqued the cups down, the BB got REAL rough--much worse then when it was out. In one of these posts I think someone (Binary maybe?) said that they thought rough running bearings when the BB is in and torqued against the cups may just be due to poor tolerances on the machined parts. But this BB has run smooth before, but now that there is some grit in the bearings, it wont let me adjust it so that the axle runs smooth.

Its a Truvativ Gigapipe, and my methods of installation are install the drive side until the cup bottoms out on the frame, and then install the non drive. Ive also done it the opposite way (non drive, then drive) and it doesnt seem to matter.

Is it time for a new BB?

 

[Natedogg]

There's nothing in that manual that indicates the BBs come pre-prepped with loctite,

No, youre absolutely right. I guess I just meant that there is an increased chance that it is loctite since they tell you to use it...

 

[binary visions]

My current bottom bracket does exactly what you're describing. My solution is probably not a good one - I torque down the drive side hard, and hand-tighten the non-drive side, give it an extra slight tweak with the wrench, and run it like that.

I don't know why it does it now and did not do it before. Mine has always done it, but I just don't ever have a problem with it so I leave it alone.

 

[Natedogg]

My current bottom bracket does exactly what you're describing. My solution is probably not a good one - I torque down the drive side hard, and hand-tighten the non-drive side, give it an extra slight tweak with the wrench, and run it like that.

Hmmm, bummer. Since Im wayyy outta shape, I need all the frictionless help I can get! ink: Plus I have mechanics OCD and gritty bearings drive me crazy--I would spend 10 hours buffing bearings under a microscope to get that crap under control.

Thanks for the input man.

 

[binary visions]

Plus I have mechanics OCD and gritty bearings drive me crazy--I would spend 10 hours buffing bearings under a microscope to get that crap under control.

I do, too.

Which is why I do what I described - I get no gritty feel at all when I do that. It makes me a little crazy to know that half my BB isn't tightened down right but I can get over that before I can get over my bearings being gritty.

I'm also the type who likes my bike silent. The minute I get a creak in anything, I'll tear my bike apart to find it and stop it.

 

[Natedogg]

I do, too.

I'm also the type who likes my bike silent. The minute I get a creak in anything, I'll tear my bike apart to find it and stop it.

Nice.

Hmm, that fix didnt work for me. I dont get it. Last time I pulled it apart it was butter...

I like silent, too. I cant stand creaks, sqeaks, chain/derailluer bouncing, etc... Its like nails on a chalkboard... :redhot: