Changing out the oil and seals on my boxxer wc for the first time. I have heard rockshox seals aren't worth it and was thinking aout going enduro but I have heard some iffy things about them too (the wearing off of stanchion coating), so I am looking for all the information I can get. Whats the best way to go? Anything else I will need to have for this job?
Boxxer pro's
- Thread starter stumpjump
- Start date
Fox "seals" aren't really oil seals at all, not sure why they would work any better.
Pack the Rock Shox seals with Slick Honey or similar when you install, and clean them after rides. Get a zip tie down in the wiper to pry out dirt, lube them with Tri-Flow.
Pack the Rock Shox seals with Slick Honey or similar when you install, and clean them after rides. Get a zip tie down in the wiper to pry out dirt, lube them with Tri-Flow.
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the rockshox seals are fine as long as keep them lubed and clean.
Thats Money right there. Do that with any fork you have, keep them working great.
By the way, If I am not mistaken, Push uses RS seals on there rebuilds. Enduros are cool, but rough on your equipment. Use the regular RS seals, SLick honey them up, keep your wiper lubed, life is good. I Pop my top seal on my fork probably once a month at least and give the foam wiper a shot of tri flow. It keeps everything nice and slick.
I was told don't use tri-flow other than fork oil since there's nothing in the fork other than oil. I don't use no tri-flow at all just regular good stuff!
I've been using Enduro's on my Boxxer and Reba for about a year now and I've got no complaints. I will however be doing another complete tear down and rebuild within the next few weeks and I'll be going back to the stock RS.
-Kevin
-Kevin
Just a quick question. Are the dust seals and oil seals the same in 2008 Boxxers, as they were in old style Boxxers-pre 2006?
Thanx
Thanx
Hmm, are you sure about that? Seems unlikely to me. The oil seal in a boxxer is a pretty good press fit in the casting, on the odd occasion that it isn't, it can get pushed out as pressure in the lowers increase. Basically, at bottom out, there's a LOT of pressure build up in there.
Now, the dust wiper is a much lighter fit in the casting. So that to me would suggest that using a fox seal would result in one of two things: either a) leakage due to not having a pressure seal, or b) if the fox wiper does seal pressure well, then it may get blown off under pressure.
I'm interested in hearing if you've tried it for a period of time on the 06+ boxxers, the only way I could see it working is if the single fox seal is actually a decent pressure seal as well and is somehow a very tight fit in the casting. And maybe it is!
Anyway - my personal suggestion is, just take the old pressure seals to your local seal shop and get them matched and replace them. The dust wipers are fine to re-use. Don't bother with enduro, they are a much harder seal, and therefore add a heap of stiction over the stock parts.
Now, the dust wiper is a much lighter fit in the casting. So that to me would suggest that using a fox seal would result in one of two things: either a) leakage due to not having a pressure seal, or b) if the fox wiper does seal pressure well, then it may get blown off under pressure.
I'm interested in hearing if you've tried it for a period of time on the 06+ boxxers, the only way I could see it working is if the single fox seal is actually a decent pressure seal as well and is somehow a very tight fit in the casting. And maybe it is!
Anyway - my personal suggestion is, just take the old pressure seals to your local seal shop and get them matched and replace them. The dust wipers are fine to re-use. Don't bother with enduro, they are a much harder seal, and therefore add a heap of stiction over the stock parts.
yupp, the fork was worked on by an ex syndicate mechanic in the alps. didn't have any problems with leaking or anything.
maybe like you said the fit is a bit tighter on the boxxer and it just works out perfect, i have no idea. all i know is that they do the job and the do it well.
sure fox seals dont have a dedicated oil seal, but they still seal perfectly fine. had a friend who ended up with about 500ml or so of oil in his lowers, dont ask, he was a bit of retard. anyways, it ended up that he could only use 5 inches of travel due to the ramp up. and this was on the track which had its fair share of big hits, seals stayed put and no oil spewing out of them. we only found out later when we decided to take the forks apart .
maybe like you said the fit is a bit tighter on the boxxer and it just works out perfect, i have no idea. all i know is that they do the job and the do it well.
sure fox seals dont have a dedicated oil seal, but they still seal perfectly fine. had a friend who ended up with about 500ml or so of oil in his lowers, dont ask, he was a bit of retard. anyways, it ended up that he could only use 5 inches of travel due to the ramp up. and this was on the track which had its fair share of big hits, seals stayed put and no oil spewing out of them. we only found out later when we decided to take the forks apart .
Going to order a set of seals from both rockshox and fox and use both and see what happens. Ill probably try the fox mod just because I am curious, but keep a pair of regulars just in case. Hope rebuilding that fork is as easy as I think it will be. Done a few forks in my life but I have yet to do a boxxer.
I have a feeling there will be a whole bunch of people complaining their new boxxer 'doesn't work' becasue they don't actually understand how the adjustments work. seeing as they already can't figure out how to do a 5 minute lube job (or do it once a year at most) nor take the time to grease under the dust wipers and then complain their seals are crap.
My brother and I have owned a combined 24 boxxers over the years, and zero have ever had issues with seals or leaking. can't imaging why.
some sort of voodoo or witch craft probably
yep, the seals are just fine if you maintain them the way you're supposed to.
changing the oil in the lowers and cleaning the seals takes under 10 minutes and if done on a monthly basis reduces most Boxxer seal problems to a minimum.
that's just my opinion
not maintaining a fork for a year then complaining about the seals is kinda funny. You could get away with it on the older Marz forks, but that's about it.
10 MINUTES? you must also drink a beer while doing the lube job
The Fox seal "mod" works perfect, makes a Boxxer WC run smoother (i.e. slightly less friction) then with the standard RS seals. And I can guarntee you that there is no problems in terms of looking or pressure blow outs. Makes for shorter service intervals but then again a Boxxer WC should be a bi-weekly lube and grease kinda fork anyway. Just as an example my fork worked perfect all through Maribor WC and Schladming as well as countless races adn runs in the Alps etc...Hmm, are you sure about that? Seems unlikely to me. The oil seal in a boxxer is a pretty good press fit in the casting, on the odd occasion that it isn't, it can get pushed out as pressure in the lowers increase. Basically, at bottom out, there's a LOT of pressure build up in there.
Now, the dust wiper is a much lighter fit in the casting. So that to me would suggest that using a fox seal would result in one of two things: either a) leakage due to not having a pressure seal, or b) if the fox wiper does seal pressure well, then it may get blown off under pressure.
I'm interested in hearing if you've tried it for a period of time on the 06+ boxxers, the only way I could see it working is if the single fox seal is actually a decent pressure seal as well and is somehow a very tight fit in the casting. And maybe it is!
Anyway - my personal suggestion is, just take the old pressure seals to your local seal shop and get them matched and replace them. The dust wipers are fine to re-use. Don't bother with enduro, they are a much harder seal, and therefore add a heap of stiction over the stock parts.
That's pretty interesting. So would I be correct in saying the fox wiper acts as a pressure seal as well? I mean from what I can see it must.
Does the fox wiper sit deeper than the stock RS wiper? And do you guys use foam rings / pack with grease under them, or do nothing like that? Because without a pressure seal there, there'd be nothing to stop all the grease getting washed away by the oil anyway, so it'd probably be pointless.
Vaguely interested in trying this out now. Just a seal kit for a fox 32 fork (any?) is what you need I presume.
And when you say shorter service intervals, do you mean the seals start leaking faster? My other worry would be the fact that when you ride in muddy conditions, the mud/dirt tends to get under the stock RS wiper, but at least it's stopped by the pressure seal after that... without it, I could see all that gunk going straight into the lower/bushing area.
Does the fox wiper sit deeper than the stock RS wiper? And do you guys use foam rings / pack with grease under them, or do nothing like that? Because without a pressure seal there, there'd be nothing to stop all the grease getting washed away by the oil anyway, so it'd probably be pointless.
Vaguely interested in trying this out now. Just a seal kit for a fox 32 fork (any?) is what you need I presume.
And when you say shorter service intervals, do you mean the seals start leaking faster? My other worry would be the fact that when you ride in muddy conditions, the mud/dirt tends to get under the stock RS wiper, but at least it's stopped by the pressure seal after that... without it, I could see all that gunk going straight into the lower/bushing area.
I have always used triflow on fork wipers, Its quick, its easy, and unless its a Fox, your only adding it between your two seals and resoaking your foam wiper. Never have I had a Problem with the teflon causing a problem with any fork out there. Just for thought, what does everyone think Marz adds for there "works" package to there oil.
Just because, I will share one of my "tirkcs" to keeping stiction<sp> low on your forks, and I do this on most all forks I rebuild. While you have the fork apart and the lowers are off, Wax your stantions with a nice good quality Carnuba wax. Clean the stantion, dry it, wax it, let it dry just ike you would when waxing a car, usually I put the wax on, then go start cleaning the lowers, buff it off before you pout the lowers back on. An old suspension guru taught me that years ago, been doing it ever since, always works great, never had a negative effect yet, even on my own forks<yes plural>that I get to keep an eye on.
Just because, I will share one of my "tirkcs" to keeping stiction<sp> low on your forks, and I do this on most all forks I rebuild. While you have the fork apart and the lowers are off, Wax your stantions with a nice good quality Carnuba wax. Clean the stantion, dry it, wax it, let it dry just ike you would when waxing a car, usually I put the wax on, then go start cleaning the lowers, buff it off before you pout the lowers back on. An old suspension guru taught me that years ago, been doing it ever since, always works great, never had a negative effect yet, even on my own forks<yes plural>that I get to keep an eye on.
Oiling the wipers is pointless, because oil alone won't last / work very long. Also the fork in question here (boxxer) does not run foam rings. Seals are best greased because the grease will allow lubrication for a much longer period. Grease is just a base oil that is held in suspension by a thickener, which allows the oil to lubricate the part when moving, and keep it in suspension when still. Oil alone will just get pushed out very quickly and stop doing its job over the course of something as short as a single run - as there is nothing to hold it there.
I wouldn't pry them on a boxxer, because the whole wiper is recessed. Even when it's not though, prying them up is usually a good way to risk scratching the stanchion with your flatblade, although at least it'd be possible if that were the case.
I just do what you do, pack them at service. I think it'd be really cool if they had a little grease port on the back of the leg that entered the area between seal and wiper, maybe one day... because that seems to make the biggest difference in stiction as you ride the fork for a while after a service.
I rub a bit of grease on the stanchions every now and then which helps a little but I doubt it's nearly as good as getting it in that gap.
I just do what you do, pack them at service. I think it'd be really cool if they had a little grease port on the back of the leg that entered the area between seal and wiper, maybe one day... because that seems to make the biggest difference in stiction as you ride the fork for a while after a service.
I rub a bit of grease on the stanchions every now and then which helps a little but I doubt it's nearly as good as getting it in that gap.
Cool, that's what I figured.
When I said pry the wiper, I meant with a zip tie or something else that wouldn't scratch the stanchion, but that's a good point for anyone reading!
I need to do a tear-down on a Boxxer I just bought used and this is good motivation for it!
When I said pry the wiper, I meant with a zip tie or something else that wouldn't scratch the stanchion, but that's a good point for anyone reading!
I need to do a tear-down on a Boxxer I just bought used and this is good motivation for it!
I use one of my plastic door panel tools, basically tis a plastic screwdriver, nice and easy, take your time.
I know oiling between the seals doesnt last super long, but its easy, and stays slick while its there. Even without the foam rings a little bit of fluid oil, Like triflow, helps keep the dust seal nice and smooth.
I do recall reading up before on the Boxxer not to pry up the dust seal, Not to mention its a pain in the Ass to do on the pre 2010 boxxers without doing damage. I have used the squeeze type bottle's before and just lift the lip of the dust seal away from the Stantion just a touch with a ziptie and drop some oil in as well.
I know oiling between the seals doesnt last super long, but its easy, and stays slick while its there. Even without the foam rings a little bit of fluid oil, Like triflow, helps keep the dust seal nice and smooth.
I do recall reading up before on the Boxxer not to pry up the dust seal, Not to mention its a pain in the Ass to do on the pre 2010 boxxers without doing damage. I have used the squeeze type bottle's before and just lift the lip of the dust seal away from the Stantion just a touch with a ziptie and drop some oil in as well.
Thanks, this is a great idea! Wax is generally a petroleum byproduct anyways, so it only goes to explain why it works as well as it does.
High Five!
so when you have the stanctions out of the lowers, just stuff a bunch of nice grease (philwood?) under the top wiper? sounda pretty close to what i did last time. do you guys take both stanctions out at the same time or just one? i took both out last time because i was lazy and didnt want to undo my lower crown and fork bumpers and had a tough time lining up both stanctions at the same time when putting it back together
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Not fond of Philwood for forks. I prefer either SLick honey or RS Fork Butter.so when you have the stanctions out of the lowers, just stuff a bunch of nice grease (philwood?) under the top wiper? sounda pretty close to what i did last time. do you guys take both stanctions out at the same time or just one? i took both out last time because i was lazy and didnt want to undo my lower crown and fork bumpers and had a tough time lining up both stanctions at the same time