[fubuki]

I've been running Saints on my Operator and they had to go in for warranty, shocking right? Anyway, Shimano sent out a new set and now I have the opportunity to go a different route if I want. LBS is willing to swap out the Saints for something else, but I'm not sure which way to go. There new 820 Saints have been a problem for me, whereas the older 810s were bombproof.

I can keep the Saints and hope for the best or go with Hope or SRAM. The Hopes are the top of my list right now, but concerned about support and finding parts. If I'm in Whistler and I have a problem with my Shimano or SRAM brakes I'm pretty sure I can get them fixed no problem. Not sure I can say the same for Hope.

I could go with the new Guide brake or stick with the tried and true Code. Another possibility is to build a set with Guide levers and Code calipers. Thoughts?

 

[tomasis7]

Look at Magura Mt5 and 7. Seems they got good consistent reviews.

Better modulation, about much power of Saint, lighter, cheaper. I dont know re service in Whistler, but it should work with Shimano bleeding kit and mineral oil.

 

[Carraig042]

I stand by my Hope brakes and never really had a problem with them. Easy as heck to bleed and you can get DOT fluid anywhere. Tons of power and modulation. One of my sets is over 3 years old and running strong with nothing more than normal cleaning and just a few bleeds.

-Brett

 

[Jm_]

The only problem I had with my hopes (DH4s Mono M4s) was that they were kind of perpetually weak, but they worked well enough. The US distributor was decent at getting me parts. I don't think this compares in any way to shimano's distribution and dedication to brake design and heat dissipation. They do come in cool anodized colors though, so I really should have gottem them for my fat bike that doesn't need much stopping power and has anno blue everywhere.

 

[kickstand]

I had very good luck with my Code - R's (I had a set, wife had a set). Never a problem, always held a bleed, etc.

My son is running the Code's they have more adjustment, and a bit more power. They are a little tougher to get a good bleed on and occasionally need a re-bleed. Overall they are good. We ran the code levers with some XO trail calipers for a while, they seem to match up better to the correct code calipers.

My wife is now running the new Guide RSC, they are fancy, I like them alot. I wish I had a pair.

I have ran into inconsistent lever feel with my shitmano Zee's, never had saints, I have no problems with my shimano slx or xt brakes, but they don't have the same power that any of my previous elixir/xo trails have had.

Overall, I am against the grain, although I hate dealing with DOT fluid and the bleed process of avid brakes, I feel like when they are right, they are far better performance than shimano's.

 

[yd35]

Cant comment on Hope or SRAM brake performance, but if youre concerned about spare availability, I would try calling or emailing a few of the bigger Whistler shops. Im sure you can get a pretty good feel about how easily you can get Hope issues sorted.

 

[Bikael Molton]

XT

 

[fubuki]

I've been running a brand new set of factory bled Zees while my Saints were away and I'm having the same issue with inconsistent bite point. It's all over the board and it was amplified up in Whistler last week. I hate dealing with DOT fluid as well, but price, availability, and heat management are pluses. I think right now it's either the Hope Tech 3 V4 or the new Guide Ultimate. Both are similarly priced to the Saint.

The shop has a set of Hope Race E4s, which I don't know much about. It's 4 piston, but looks like a light weight trail brake.

 

[schwaaa31]

I'm running Zee front and saint 820 rear (warranty on the zee). I want to be impressed, but I'm really not. They've never really felt as solid as my old Avids. Guys I ride with are running last years Code R's that have a great solid bite and no issues. Both Shimanos have been shit holding a bleed, and fade big time. My Shimano deore on my trail bike have been flawless on the other hand. I'll be going back to Avid for DH.

 

[schwaaa31]

I'm running Zee front and saint 820 rear (warranty on the zee). I want to be impressed, but I'm really not. They've never really felt as solid as my old Avids. Guys I ride with are running last years Code R's that have a great solid bite and no issues. Both Shimanos have been shit holding a bleed, and fade big time. My Shimano deore on my trail bike have been flawless on the other hand. I'll be going back to Avid for DH.

 

[fubuki]

At the shop now. I think I'm pulling the trigger on the Guide Ultimates.

 

[Kanye West]

The recent year Hope brakes are THE best brakes I've ever used. Lever feel and system feel and overall power is incredible.

Also, on my Endurbro bike, I run M800 Saints. That's right, 1st generation. Roughly same weight as anything current, vastly superior lever ergos, hard solid engagement (none of this cam stuff), and cheap as hell. I honestly don't think Shimano has improved upon these in the last two generations, with the exception of the 4-piston calipers. The levers I thought were a big step back, then a mild step forward with the new ones.

 

[ianjenn]

The Hopes are great way better lever feel about the same price. The Magura MT7 are much lighter than either. The lever feel isn't as adjustable as Hope but still feel better than Shimano....

 

[jonKranked]

i'm still DH'ing on M800 saints.

 

[dylan s]

At the shop now. I think I'm pulling the trigger on the Guide Ultimates.

Let us know how you get on with the guide ultimates. I'm considering a set to replace my 3 + year old codes but hesitant to move on from them as they have been solid performers. Been through a few lever blades from crashes and a calliper but otherwise they have been flawless. Really holding out for some updated codes to hit the market but no news or prototypes to been seen as yet.

 

[toodles]

My M810s finally died after 6 years and many trips to Whistler and Queenstown. I've heard too many worrying stories about the M820s to go that option - mainly a personal preference thing as I run my brakes very close to the handlebar (hobbit fingers) and any inconsistency in bite point can leave me with no brakes at all. I've just gotten a set of Guide RSCs so once I've had some time on them I'll update on power and consitency.

On one of my trips to Queenstown, I blew up the master cylinder seal on the M810s and without access to spares ended up running a set of Code Rs that I got cheaply. I wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised by their power and awesome lever feel. Only downside was the pads lasted much, much shorter than the Saint pads I'm used to, partly because they wouldn't wear evenly. One end of the pad would wear to the backing quickly while the other had heaps of material left on it. I tried rotating the pads mid-life to prolong their lifespan but they sounded like hell. In the end I repaired the M810 lever and went back to them.

 

[maxyedor]

The Hopes are great way better lever feel about the same price. The Magura MT7 are much lighter than either. The lever feel isn't as adjustable as Hope but still feel better than Shimano....

How much time do you have on the Maguras? Thinking about ditching my shimanos for a set, want a bit more power than my XTs, and they feel like poop compared to me old Magura Louis FRs.

 

[ianjenn]

I had the MT7's for almost 5 month on the Megatrail. They modulate pretty well. I would probably suggest getting the ones that require a tool to adjust. We had the ones with the knobs they don't offer as much in the way of adjustment...

 

[fubuki]

Update on the brakes. I got the Guide Ultimates mounted up last night and went for a ride today. I must say this was the first time in a very long time that I didn't think about my brakes when I was riding. That's a very good thing. With the Saints I never knew what I'd get when I grabbed a fist full of brake. It's only one day, but so far so good. I have no idea how they'll hold up, but I'm very happy so far. I race next weekend so we'll see how they hold up.

 

[marshalolson]

I got off a pair of Zees (trail) and saint (big bike) last year for guide RS and RSC's. In my experience over about 1000mi on each pair, the guides have equivent power for me, better modulation/feel, and much more predictable. Have had to bleed each one once.

One point I would add is I found the stock organic pads to glaze a bit if you are riding steeper trails. Sintered pads are a little louder, but have lasted better for me.

Good luck!

 

[fubuki]

I got off a pair of Zees (trail) and saint (big bike) last year for guide RS and RSC's. In my experience over about 1000mi on each pair, the guides have equivent power for me, better modulation/feel, and much more predictable. Have had to bleed each one once.

One point I would add is I found the stock organic pads to glaze a bit if you are riding steeper trails. Sintered pads are a little louder, but have lasted better for me.

Good luck!

Thanks for info on the pads. I seem to recall that from the last time on Avids. I have high hopes for these brakes.

 

[djjohnr]

I've had problems getting used to the short levers on my Guides. The additional lateral movement as they go through their travel seems to be resulting in getting arm pump much faster. The fixed bite point of the RSs is a lot further into the travel then my Elixrs were which seems to exacerbate the problem. Should've bought the RSCs. I'm tempted to trade them in for Hopes.

 

[marshalolson]

try to: open the cap/bladder window, fill the master cylinder with brake fluid, and slowly tighten the cap/bladder back on. this will maximize fluid in the system and reduce lever throw before pad bite.

you could also hook up a bleeder to the lever only and bleed the lever only and see if that helps

 

[Mo(n)arch]

I am running '13 X0 Trails on my DH-bike and was wondering if it would be worth it to swap the brake levers out to the Guide RSC ones?
I am searching for just that little more power for the really steep trails.
I read somewhere, that the added power and the better modulation comes only from the levers. Is that the case or are the calipers also a new design on the Guides?

 

[marshalolson]

Same calipers

 

[toodles]

Wonder if they have plans to revamp the Codes anytime soon. I didn't have any power problems with the RSCs at last weekends race, but the track conditions were so slippery that any brake would have locked a wheel effortlessly.

 

[daisycutter]

I find it funny that you guys are talking about how great Avid brakes are. My three sets of saints have been close to flawless. While the Guides I tried lacked power and modulation.

 

[toodles]

I like the Avid levers better, certainly wish they had the power of the Saints. Can't comment on their durability/consistency yet, but they've got a long way to go to match my 6 year old M810 Saints. If the Guides let me down, I'll go looking for a set of the M820s to try.

 

[Electric_City]

Try the Hope Tech 3 V4 brakes. I was an Avid guy on the old school Code's. You know, the ones that worked and didn't need 4 re-bleeds a year? The levers were slow on the rebound and I considered Saints, but the inconsistent bite and McGarys crash just made me hesitant.

I like that Hope still makes things in the UK. I looked at their Tech 3 V4 brakes and rotors and figured I'd give them a go. I like that they're machined and not cast, but that's not the biggie. They're easy to cut and bleed. If you cut the hose, you don't even need to bleed them since they're sealed tightly at both ends, you don't lose a drop of oil. That said, I bled mine anyway so I knew how to do it. An 8mm wrench, brake fluid, hose and catch bottle are all you need. No syringes needed. Simple! You can do this in the parking lot with no issues in 5-10 minutes. Also, when you cut the hose, you don't need new olives and barbs(just don't lose the tiny copper washer). Hope says that you can reuse them. I did and it works.

People make a big deal about the weight of the rotors, but I thought they were lighter than the Avid G3's. They were! The Hope 2 piece was 166g and the Avid was 244g. The levers are longer than Saints- comparable to Code's I'd say. The levers also have dimples in them for a lot better traction than the Code's. There's definitely modulation too. No on-off feel at all. There's no fade either.

These brakes are often overlooked but shouldn't be. I'd rather sell these and service them every now and then, rather than selling Avids and rebleeding frustrated customers brakes.

Ttyl, EC

 

[kickstand]

I had nothing but problems again last weekend with my Zee's, took them to the shimano tent and they gave them a good once over, they felt better for a bit, but towards the end of the weekend started to feel like shit again. I'm ordering some Guide's as soon as I am rich again.

 

[fubuki]

First race this past weekend on the Guides and I got a podium. Was it the brakes that made the difference? Yes, yes it was. Not really, but they performed perfectly. So glad to be done with Saint/Zee.

 

[mykel]

I'm sitting on the fence here regarding new brakes for the dh bike.

I'm 220-230 fully kitted up.

I do not want Shimano in any way, so please don't...

Currently have XO Trail with a dodgy caliper. 203F/180R
Thinking about getting the Trails fixed and moving them to the trail bike.

Thinking
Guide RSC or MT7

I like the XO Trail, so more of the same but better would be cool. (but without the bloody bleeding issues)

I have two pairs of Magura Louise BAT's that won't die. I have always been impressed by them. (Easy to bleed)
I do like the Avid lever feel better that the Louise. The MT7 has had a lever revisement from 4 to 2 finger, and now there is supposedly a new lever coming out later this year that is quite a bit shorter and available as parts. They have the power I want, but am concerned about feel.

I like to run my brakes so that they are close to the bar. I get far less hand / arm pump having my fingers in close as opposed to one hanging out in free space - I can holdz on bettereer too.

(Hope Tech3 v4 have been a bit of a dream, but quite pricey and have heard great modulation but down on ultimate power in comparison...)

Anybody have anymore time on the MT7 or Guide RSC and care to comment, or throw a non Shimano idea at me?

 

[StiHacka]

Get the Maguras!



(just kidding)

 

[slimshady]

My little notebook says "when in doubt, grab a set of Formulas". But if that's not your koolaid flavor, the Guides with a Code calliper (we're talking DH brakes, right?) will surely do the trick.

 

[maxyedor]

FWIW I ditched my XTRs and got some mt5s, great brakes. Consistent bite point, lots of power and great modulation. 1 finger braking through everything, which I assume I could do with saints, but definitely couldn't with XTR or XTs. Grabbed them over the 7s because I don't really care about the bite point adjustment, as long as it's consistent, it's fine.

Still want to try some current gen Hopes, but wont be going back to shimano, at least not until they get their shit squared away.

 

[toodles]

(Hope Tech3 v4 have been a bit of a dream, but quite pricey and have heard great modulation but down on ultimate power in comparison...)

Anybody have anymore time on the MT7 or Guide RSC and care to comment, or throw a non Shimano idea at me?

Just my experience, but I switched from Guide RSCs to Hope V4s and the Hopes definitely felt more powerful. More consistent as well which helps my confidence in them. The Avids do have super nice levers though. If you're after power maybe just grab the Codes? Or try to built a Guide lever/Code caliper hybrid?

 

[csermonet]

I'm sitting on the fence here regarding new brakes for the dh bike.

I'm 220-230 fully kitted up.

I do not want Shimano in any way, so please don't...

Currently have XO Trail with a dodgy caliper. 203F/180R
Thinking about getting the Trails fixed and moving them to the trail bike.

Thinking
Guide RSC or MT7

I like the XO Trail, so more of the same but better would be cool. (but without the bloody bleeding issues)

I have two pairs of Magura Louise BAT's that won't die. I have always been impressed by them. (Easy to bleed)
I do like the Avid lever feel better that the Louise. The MT7 has had a lever revisement from 4 to 2 finger, and now there is supposedly a new lever coming out later this year that is quite a bit shorter and available as parts. They have the power I want, but am concerned about feel.

I like to run my brakes so that they are close to the bar. I get far less hand / arm pump having my fingers in close as opposed to one hanging out in free space - I can holdz on bettereer too.

(Hope Tech3 v4 have been a bit of a dream, but quite pricey and have heard great modulation but down on ultimate power in comparison...)

Anybody have anymore time on the MT7 or Guide RSC and care to comment, or throw a non Shimano idea at me?

Not into Formula's at all? I love mine, and I know Udi loves his too. R0's with their new "race" lever are a pretty sick set-up for DH. Pretty sure that's what Udi run's, R0's with the new pull style "race" lever.

 

[Sandwich]

I just put mt5s on my big bike and think they're ok. I don't have enough time to comment about reliability, and power on my brakes was limited by a bad bleed on the rear.

I can say that setting them up was normal/painless, however in typical German fashion, the design is a bit stupid. A) torx is everywhere, and b) the threads are very coarse like a wood screw instead of a bolt. Makes adjusting a bit scary.

Power was similar to my formula t1ses, modulation was similar as well. One note on this, the mt5 uses organic pads rather than metallic, I expect more power when I get metal pads. Fade was limited to the steepest parts of the hill, but I don't want to make an issue of this until I get back out there with a good bleed.

Last comment, the mt7 comes with tool free BPA and reach adjust and metal pads, which may be worth the upgrade if you can afford it. Didn't think I'd miss tool free reach, but I did. Metal pads are like 30 bucks a side. I have heard the mt7s don't come in as close as the mt5s though.

I've had 810s, t1ses, and xts, modulation is better than shimanos but overall power is less, at least until I get good pads.

 

[djjohnr]

I had Guide RSs last year and switched to Magura MT5s this year. I had some fade issues with the guides and never loved the lever feel (short levers compared to older Avids). The MT5s have been really good for me. Lots of power and excellent modulation. They do take significantly longer to bed in. I went with the MT5s instead of the 7s because reviews said you could run the levers closer to the bars.

 

[Sandwich]

Oh the maguras also have very flat levers, like a square. Not a nice curve like modern shimanos. Not a deal breaker, but a nit pick