[General Lee]

Got these from Jill Kintner's site:

There was a NORBA round this weekend in the middle of nowhere Utah. Looks like the battle between Sam Hill and Minnaar for the Downhill title continues. From the looks of things, Sam will be a hard one to beat. Aspen next weekend will be the final round.

I am not doing Norba's this year. They don't really support the athletes, and have made a joke out of 4x, so untill they clean up their act there is no point in going for me.

Men DH
1. Sam Hill (AUS)
2. Greg Minnaar (RSA)
3. Matti Lehikoinen (FIN)
4. Cody Warren (USA)
5. Duncan Riffle (USA)

Women DH
1. Melissa Buhl (USA)
2. Sabrina Jonnier (FRA)
3. Tracey Hannah (AUS)
4. April Laywer (USA)
5. Lisa Myklak (USA)

Men Dual Slalom
1. Amiel Cavalier
2. John Kirkaldie
3. Andrew Neethling

Women Dual Slalom
1. Melissa Buhl
2. Joanna Petterson
3. Leanna Gerrard

 

[DHCorky]

Rumor has it that the 4x at Snowmass has been completely rebuilt with the help from the UCI. I have heard that the 4X is for Pro/Semi-pro only and everyone else is running a dual slalom race. I wouldn't doubt this to be happening since I believe this race is being run by BigFoot Productions(Yeti).

 

[Beast]

Rumor has it that the 4x at Snowmass has been completely rebuilt with the help from the UCI. I have heard that the 4X is for Pro/Semi-pro only and everyone else is running a dual slalom race. I wouldn't doubt this to be happening since I believe this race is being run by BigFoot Productions(Yeti).

It's true that mx is pro/semi only, but anyone can race ds (incl pro/semi). You ought to make the short drive up there and check out the 4x

 

[Salty4X]

Has the Snowmass course been rebuilt since the Mountain States Cup race there in July?

 

[Mani_UT]

Brian Head was sweeeet!

The conditions could not have been better on and off the course with perfect tacky dirt that made racing fun and made the surrounding shuttleable trails outstanding! I am not sure if I had more fun hauling ass down blowhard or taking cruiser runs on the course.

For me the weekend highlights were as follow:

Andrew Pierce qualifying in 20th in his first pro race! He unfortunately had a crash that resulted in a mechanical in his final run but he showed he is a threat for the worlds!!

Melissa Buhl beating Jonnier and Hannah! That was impressive.

The winning junior X putting a new twist on "cheater" line by going 60' off the trail. It was not technically cheating in the way putting steroid up your ass and passing a steroid test by staying within the legal limit is not technically doping. Whatever. I call it cheating.

Dit I say the shuttle trails were sick?

Yeah.. Fun week-end for sure.

 

[RATM]

Flipper already has his pics up at his site http://www.flipper.co.uk/

 

[bizutch]

Flipper already has his pics up at his site http://www.flipper.co.uk/

wow...that first shot of Kirkcaldie riding through a sea of grass and flowers would put you to sleep...if you didn't know he was hauling ass...

 

[Msisle Dad]

The winning junior X putting a new twist on "cheater" line by going 60' off the trail. It was not technically cheating in the way putting steroid up your ass and passing a steroid test by staying within the legal limit is not technically doping. Whatever. I call it cheating.

QUOTE]


Somebody won JRX racing 60 ft off line and it was allowed?

 

[spoke80]

Flipper already has his pics up at his site http://www.flipper.co.uk/

I wonder if Hill is wearing his new signature 5-10s.

Link: "New Shoes at the Airport" http://declinemagazine.com/community/community.htm

 

[Beast]

Props to the Buell brothers - Brian taking 1st and Mike 5th in semi pro dh!

 

[Mani_UT]

Somebody won JRX racing 60 ft off line and it was allowed?

Yeah. That's it

 

[biker3]

could you please elaborate?

 

[MrWolf]

There was no tape after the steep technical section. So a couple of guys took advantage of that and completely cut off a corner... going through the grass and yelling at spectators to get out of the way.

It cut off AT LEAST 60 feet of pretty rough track and basically eliminated a corner. Easily took a few seconds off their times.

Pretty much BS... but what can you do? They'll just say 'it wasn't taped off'.

 

[Msisle Dad]

I hate to say it but without some marking or written rider instuction/direction the course is considered open. I agree it is bs, and it's ashame that the racers involved didnt race the intended course.

 

[davetrump]

There was no tape after the steep technical section. So a couple of guys took advantage of that and completely cut off a corner... going through the grass and yelling at spectators to get out of the way.

It cut off AT LEAST 60 feet of pretty rough track and basically eliminated a corner. Easily took a few seconds off their times.

Pretty much BS... but what can you do? They'll just say 'it wasn't taped off'.

sounds like TBB is getting cheap and ran out of course tape.... maybe they are trying to recycle it from event to event and didn't have enough left over

seriously though... how hard is it to tape a course? and did people take that route in practise? surely if they had someone ould have seen it and the problem could have been fixed before the race... or not since TBB could care less

 

[Mani_UT]

Yeah the race should have been taped top to bottom and only lazyness explains the lack of tape. On the other hand, the lack of ethics from some junior racers is unbelievable. If you see the course is inappropriately taped, mention it and have it changed, don't take advantage of it. It is like these lame ass lawyers always trying to find the loophole in the rules, everybody loses.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah the race should have been taped top to bottom and only lazyness explains the lack of tape. On the other hand, the lack of ethics from some junior racers is unbelievable. If you see the course is inappropriately taped, mention it and have it changed, don't take advantage of it. It is like these lame ass lawyers always trying to find the loophole in the rules, everybody loses.

Same kind of thing happened at DV. But the course marshals fixed it before race day... One of the JRX'ers took a straight line to the left of the tree at the top of Little Niagra...prolly about a 1-2 second savings...but he did it in practice....and it got fixed before anybody's race run....

 

[bizutch]

I'm grinning right now thinking about all the little cheater lines that slowly popped up over the years at Sugar...so finally they just taped them as part of the course to make if fair???

 

[Mani_UT]

I'm grinning right now thinking about all the little cheater lines that slowly popped up over the years at Sugar...so finally they just taped them as part of the course to make if fair???

I am all about cheater lines. Finding that little entrance, widening a turn and such is part of racing and is fair. Going 60' off trail is a little different :redhot: Just my opinion though.

 

[jonnynails]

I'm grinning right now thinking about all the little cheater lines that slowly popped up over the years at Sugar...so finally they just taped them as part of the course to make if fair???

Yeah, did you notice how much wider lizards lane became after every pro practice? Some completely different lines in there now.

As for cutting across the tape 60 feet, it is BS, but if it wasn't taped then that will be their defense. Too bad people are like that, especially for the $1.50 medal that Norba is going to give them.

 

[ViciousDHer]

Yeah the race should have been taped top to bottom and only lazyness explains the lack of tape. On the other hand, the lack of ethics from some junior racers is unbelievable. If you see the course is inappropriately taped, mention it and have it changed, don't take advantage of it. It is like these lame ass lawyers always trying to find the loophole in the rules, everybody loses.

Yea it mat not have been cool, but it was legal, if it was taped as described. Unlike a certain non-norba race at an unnamed east coast mountain where a sport/beginner beat some of the fastest experts in the east/country. But once results are official that'a it. Bottom line is the course was not taped properly and mountains unfortunately need to place course marshal's not only at dangerous spots but in spots where such cuts will occur.

 

[ViciousDHer]

Oh, big congrats to Brian and Mike Buell. Rock on Rotec RL9

 

[Mani_UT]

But once results are official that'a it. Bottom line is the course was not taped properly a.

Yep.. I was mentionning to some friends how the smallest little regional race in France is taped top to bottom non stop. It's unbelievable that here a NATIONAL is so randomly taped.

 

[tmx]

Way to be a rocket Melissa Buhl!!

 

[Heath Sherratt]

It's an interesting debate going on right now, the taping of courses. At nationals Mark Weir got loud and proud about the officials taping the "fast line" in the super d right before the race. Rules say if it isn't taped in practice they can't change it in the race. They did anyhow and I listened closely to the debate. What Mark had to say was interesting and he was using words like "creativity" and "those who don't see it, don't get it". He said that the officials were spoiling the racers that had a creative edge and that they were breaking the rules. Technically he is right. I tend to agree with him. I hear about Sam Hill and Steve Peat and Minaar scoping lines-filming them-and not riding them until the race run. I have had personal difficulties accepting this and knowing that in races like Downieville and the Super D at Mammoth two years ago people were cutting off more than 60ft. even at the pro level. They were cutting off several hundred yards or more. Pro level motogp racers do the same thing. I watched Nicki Hayden and Valention Rossi at Laguna Seca last year and Rossi had never been to Laguns before so he was trying to follow Hayden to learn the fastest lines. Hayden knew this and wouldn't let him follow when it would reveal something about the course...soooo, I began to start conversations about this whenever I could to get a better grasp of what is fair and what is right. The reality is, people who are competitive will always use whatever resources they have to gain an advantage. Ethics don't really come into play because they are technically playing by the rules and thus doing what is expected of them. I found myself upset because it meant I had to step up my game and not just accept the sheep lines or even the acceptable fast race lines but that I will now have to look outside of the box and see race courses as a plain canvas. The fact that we are even having this conversation on a public forum will upset a lot of the "line cheaters" but I believe if everybody's on the same page then it makes the chances of "cheater lines" creeping into races less and less and it makes it so everyone gets to be on the same page. If everyone knows the rules and everyone has the same information then it just makes it harder for people to cheat. Be open with this discussion. Talk about it at all the races. Then be creative about how you ride the course and applaud someone when they spot something you didn't, but you wish you did.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Don't blame the racers for racing smart, blame Spiegel.

Ska Todd '06!

 

[DHCorky]

You ought to make the short drive up there and check out the 4x

The drive is short just expensive as hell with gas around here. I use my weekly trips to Keystone to fill my tank up with the cheaper gas in Summit County.

 

[Transcend]

It's only a cheater line if it's outside the tape. Inside the tape, it's a ninja line!

 

[blue]

sounds like TBB is getting cheap and ran out of course tape.... maybe they are trying to recycle it from event to event and didn't have enough left over

No no...the bum****s left a bunch behind (as well as some poles) at DV on the NCS course...

 

[DHCorky]

Coming from a observed trials background I learned if it is in the tape it is legal. Trials really taught me how to look at every option available, and no you do not always share your lines.

I have always found it amusing when someone calls another person a cheater for using the rules to their advantage.

 

[Mani_UT]

The reality is, people who are competitive will always use whatever resources they have to gain an advantage. Ethics don't really come into play because they are technically playing by the rules and thus doing what is expected of them.

I completely see your point about creativity and that is why taping wide is fun. I also agree the course should have been properly taped. What is bothering me in what you said is what you wrote quoted above. I think it is the same state of mind that will make people in some other sports use the very limit of the rules to push their own edge. If the limit for hemoglobine is X, should I use whatever ressource to get within 99% of X? It is technically playing by the rules. Don't you think ethics have to come into play somewhere? I try to keep an open mind about all of this and may be my non-competitive nature shows here but I find this derive very disturbing.

Anyway see you at the Masters! And show me your lines

 

[MrWolf]

No one took that line in practice. They obviously scouted it out by walking it though. I'm sure if they had taken that line in practice more people would have seen it and taken it themselves - or reported it.

 

[dh gangster]

Alright well i was there and know whats up. First off i mean the guy (JD) and his friends were up there a couple days before stomping it out. The line was pretty obvoiusly a little over the top as far as taking a different line. I mean JD had to have his buddies out there moving spectators so he could blow over the top of a berm and ride through the flowers for about 20 yards, i mean it was a huge shortcut. I mean you have to draw the line somewhere. My brother Tyler was racing jr. x 18 &under and saw that line in practice and thought, i seriously hope no one is lame enough to take a line that so obnoxiously out of bounds. And as for reasons it wasn't taped? There definitly wasn't a lack of tape because they taped it off for the pros the next day. Maybe it was originally taped and someone came up a couple days before and fixed a couple sections of tape?
Im not going to make accusations and point fingers but bottom line, you gotta draw the line somewhere, and id have to say if you have to move spectators thats too far.

by the way i was racing in sport 16 and under and got 6th. I mean not too shabby for a class that goes as deep as jr. x 18 and under.

Thats my 2 cents

 

[merrrrjig]

dh gangster, no one was there keeping people out of their line, I was there and the first guy through was just yelling, JD won by 7 seconds, and that line couldnt have taken off more than 3 seconds. quite funny though

 

[Fonzie18]

Blah blah blah... This can be argued both ways:

One says: "oh, I was not cheating, it was in the ribbons"
The other says: "The trail is a mile away from that line"

Bottom line is the course was poorly marked, and a group of JR racers took advantage of the situation...Sure there were no ribbons on the outside of that turn, but then again there were logs that ran perallel to the course. One might assume that those were the markers. However, the fact that the course seemed to be modified (rocks moved and logs gapped perfectly) raises even more brows to the ultimate question...was the move legal/fair?

Fair? Not to the other JR racers who stayed on the obvious trail and had to compete with riders who took a line that was a good 3 seconds faster.

Legal? It was in the ribbons right?

I do think it's funny that TBB decided to immediately rope that course off in that section for the PRO/Semi race...Hmmmm

 

[merrrrjig]

I do think it's funny that TBB decided to immediately rope that course off in that section for the PRO/Semi race...Hmmmm

Not like your slow mexican ass would of won anyway, merrrrrrrrrr

 

[Fonzie18]

Not like your slow mexican ass would of won anyway, merrrrrrrrrr

What are you talking about? Hill would have gone DOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWNNNN if I had not fallen on my race run!!! Sam who??

 

[Fonzie18]

Pssh, he didn't stand a chance!

Pinned!

P-owned!

(sarcasm)

 

[dh gangster]

alright then yea bottom line its a difference of opinion.

but i think we all can agree that norba sucks.

oh by the way fonzie you have a SICK color m3!
i have a java colored one.
nice bike choice

 

[Heath Sherratt]

I completely see your point about creativity and that is why taping wide is fun. I also agree the course should have been properly taped. What is bothering me in what you said is what you wrote quoted above. I think it is the same state of mind that will make people in some other sports use the very limit of the rules to push their own edge. If the limit for hemoglobine is X, should I use whatever ressource to get within 99% of X? It is technically playing by the rules. Don't you think ethics have to come into play somewhere? I try to keep an open mind about all of this and may be my non-competitive nature shows here but I find this derive very disturbing.

Anyway see you at the Masters! And show me your lines

Mani, the debate goes deeper...some people believe drinking Gatorade or Cytomax is a performance enhancing drug. The rules are there for us to use. Where do you draw the line ?