[dump]

Reminiscing with friends and reading some of the threads this week gave me one of those, "wouldn't it be cool if..." moments.

In the early days of mountain bike racing, races were often more like festivals with folks coming out for the whole weekend, camping and just happy to be there participating. It was a mix of young and old... fun for the whole family. At least, this is how I remember it.

These were the events:
XC, Hill Climb, Downhill, Dual Slalom, Observed Trials.

The individual events were awarded, but significant weight was given to the Overall title. In the regional races, everyone just raced on the same bike. Drop the seat, change the tires perhaps, but otherwise you were riding the same bike.

Today, racing is so fragmented. We don't have to go too far back to remember when people used to race the DH and the DS/4x. People were out there riding and racing for the fun of it - they were in shape and they were pretty well rounded riders. Nobody was great at Observed Trials but we competed just for the fun of it.

If one rider could sum up the spirit of what I'm getting at, it would be John Tomac.

So...

Wouldn't it be cool if we could revive some of this? A race weekend where you go to compete in a bunch of events and have fun doing it all? Prizes awarded for the overall?

Thoughts?

 

[kidwoo]

Wouldn't it be cool if we could revive some of this?

Okay but not the pants.

 

[jonKranked]

I would love to see this and would definitely participate.

 

[Mr Ridiculous]

Okay but not the pants.

Fine, but I'm bringing back Spinergy Rev X wheels then. And 120mm stems.

Edit: Re the actual thread topic: Sounds like good times. It would be killer if the MTB scene wasn't so fragmented.

 

[Inclag]

Reminiscing with friends and reading some of the threads this week gave me one of those, "wouldn't it be cool if..." moments.

In the early days of mountain bike racing, races were often more like festivals with folks coming out for the whole weekend, camping and just happy to be there participating. It was a mix of young and old... fun for the whole family. At least, this is how I remember it.

These were the events:
XC, Hill Climb, Downhill, Dual Slalom, Observed Trials.

The individual events were awarded, but significant weight was given to the Overall title. In the regional races, everyone just raced on the same bike. Drop the seat, change the tires perhaps, but otherwise you were riding the same bike.

Today, racing is so fragmented. We don't have to go too far back to remember when people used to race the DH and the DS/4x. People were out there riding and racing for the fun of it - they were in shape and they were pretty well rounded riders. Nobody was great at Observed Trials but we competed just for the fun of it.

If one rider could sum up the spirit of what I'm getting at, it would be John Tomac.

So...

Wouldn't it be cool if we could revive some of this? A race weekend where you go to compete in a bunch of events and have fun doing it all? Prizes awarded for the overall?

Thoughts?

I kind of got the impression that these mega/maxi-avalanches are popular because they're the evolution of what you're essentially talking about.

Unfortunately these type of races hardly ever happen in the US. It's too bad, because it would be super fun to try.

As for a weekend exactly like the old format? Thanks, but no thanks. Guess I'm not at that stage yet where I get all nostalgic about the good ol' days

 

[OGRipper]

Okay but not the pants.

Or the shoes. Ugh. Hard to believe but those things were worse in person.

Cool idea though. "Happy to be participating" is the approach I've always tried to take in the few races I do. And I've always been fairly good at lots of different riding styles but not really exceptional at anything, so it's perfect for me.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I'm promoting a classic stage race next fall at the site of the 1986 national championship. Talk about a throwback.

Also working on the course for a rally-style enduro race. It's hard to find places that have sufficient parking.
Badass trails are pretty easy to come by in Western MA/VT/Upstate NY.

 

[NoUseForAName]

4 Jacks Whistler
4 Queens Whistler.

Both of these filled what you are talking about.

How about Downieville overall?

 

[dump]

Good thoughts.

I love the mega avalanche idea... but isn't this pretty much a mass start DH race? Isn't there some kind of a timed point-to-point race done in Europe that's xc + dh and they use all mountain style bikes? Times are something like 40 minutes?

The downieville race sounds great. I hear it always sells out (500 spots or something) but I've never been - what's the format like?

@SuspectDevice, what's the location of the 86 national champs? If I recall correctly, 87 was in Colorado or California somewhere. The stuff you're working on sounds cool.

@NoUseForAName
What are those trails like?

Anyone remember the The Roostmaster or other crits at the dirt races? (naked, etc)

 

[roel_koel]

I started riding MTBs in 1986 after having started in BMX in 1981

my first MTB race was in 1991, and in the early 90s it was common to attend an event here in the UK where we did XC, DH and Trials riding on the same bike, as part of the same event, with the overall win taken from the result in each event

a great test of "all round" bike skills

this was my first competition overall win in expert class against stiff competition including National Cyclocross rider Kevin Duckworth

the event itself was a huge festival of bike fun, with all kinds of riders throwing down their stuff against each other, and a party vibe!

those early days were so radical because it was all new, and every ride was so crazy!

 

[djjohnr]

That's basically what the Sea Otter Omnium is isn't it?

 

[FlipFantasia]

@NoUseForAName
What are those trails like?

not for the faint of heart....

this years 4 queens http://www.worca.com/?page_id=2182
last years 4 jacks http://www.worca.com/?page_id=765

be sure to check the day 3 elevation profile from the jacks, vicious doesn't even begin to describe it...

 

[epic]

I support this idea - http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217926

As for 1986 Nationals, was it at Wendell where the Ross Stage Race used to be?

 

[gastro]

Include a huffy toss and I'm in

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I would especially like to see trials gain more popularity in the North America, and bolt it onto more events like big venue DH's and what not...Always had a healthy respect for trials and loved having those guys around...

Seems if you schedule it during the down time of the over events it would go over well.

 

[sethimus]

Isn't there some kind of a timed point-to-point race done in Europe that's xc + dh and they use all mountain style bikes? Times are something like 40 minutes?

http://www.avalanchetrophy.com/enduro-avalanche.html

 

[SuspectDevice]

I support this idea - http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217926

As for 1986 Nationals, was it at Wendell where the Ross Stage Race used to be?

That's right. We're still in the planning stages. We've got a sweet area around a pond that's recently been logged. That's a blank canvas. There is already awesome technical singletrack, Norba-Style singletrack and a place where I could build a half-decent slalom track. Tons of elevation to work with too...

 

[TheTruth]

This is what I want to ride.

 

[Hesh To Steel]

I've seen two of that exact setup, bighit + shiver at diablo on the same day this season.

 

[bizutch]

I think a hot lap XC race is the key, not an endurance one where pro is 3 laps, sport is 2, beginner is 1. Just a single lap.

1 bike limit is kind of cool, but at the same time it could be a hindrance. I think 1 bike is the right idea though. You're somewhat limited all around, but swapping tires/wheels and running a 24/36 on your bike would be ideal. And most people have that setup these days. Hardtails wouldn't be punished too much on the DH b/c they could kill the XC loop.

We have a winter race in NC EVERYBODY should attend once. In a wooded cabin resort with a daytime XC that has a BIG BIKE class and a night time DH race. It's still the most fun event I ever attend year in and out.

 

[ZoRo]

That's right. We're still in the planning stages. We've got a sweet area around a pond that's recently been logged. That's a blank canvas. There is already awesome technical singletrack, Norba-Style singletrack and a place where I could build a half-decent slalom track. Tons of elevation to work with too...

Slalom! I'll be there fo'sho!

 

[dump]

What's the difference between MegaAvalanche and MaxiAvalance?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Slalom! I'll be there fo'sho!

We just got permission to build a permanent Slalom track, dual track and Roost-Master style track in a recent logged area of the park.

SO STOKED. I'm trying to dig up some money to buy some FreeLap transponders to anchor in the ground.

 

[dump]

Sounds cool. Is it a ski resort?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Sounds cool. Is it a ski resort?

Heck no.
It's a WPA built state park in the mountains of Western MA. 7500+ acres of awesome land with great land managers who love bikes. The park has about a thousand feet of vertical to work with with great dirt that's loam intermixed with big interesting rocks. It's only 15 minutes from our facility, 40 minutes from the Mass Pike, on Rt2 and right off of I-91. It's but one of 4 giant underutilized state parks that NEMBA is developing an awesome trail network in here in Franklin County.
Here in Western MA we have the best under-the-radar trails in the world and we're only half an hour south of Mt. Snow and less than 2 hours from Boston.
People have been driving by here for 20 years to go to bike races without realizing that our hills are rich with ~ 250 miles of badass hand-built singletrack that rivals anything I've ridden anywhere in the US and Canada.

God blessed us with a nasty tornado that leveled all the trees around a glacial pond last year. We can simply drive diggers directly from the road onto the hillside and make anything we want with the full support of the state. That's the way you get a sweet trail center built.

I don't believe that gated racing or XC racing belong at ski resorts except in the few instances where it is actually appropriate to run a 3 discipline event. There is a different between and EVENT and a race. I just want to hold races, and that's way easier without ski mtn bureaucracy, profit incentive and terrain that has limited uses at limited times of the year.

Americans are too lazy and self conscious to race DS if they can sit their butts on a lift and ride in the woods where no-one can see them. The season is also too short at ski mountains. You can ride on dirt around here from April to late November- Mountains open in June and close a few weeks from now. You could have an entire slalom series before the DH season even starts- and you can hold mini-dh races, multi-lap endurance races with jumps and berms and general shredding without corporate douchebags sticking their wicks all up in yer bizzness.

Every other country in the world holds their DH races in places where pushing and/or cattle trucks are the norm and riders and trail building groups put hundreds of hours into course building so that they can be a permanent, free feature in the forest.
When we can take 14 year old kids and drive them half an hour any day of the week to ride gravity-oriented tracks and race their friends for free we might start catching up with Brits and Aussies when it comes to turning out racers. Highland and Diablo can only do so much. DH is expensive as hell, but riding hell-bent for leather on tracks designed to go as fast as possible on is free!

 

[stiksandstones]

I built all those carbon bikes for Johnny! ya, party.

Doesnt the sea otter have a 'omnium' for an overall winner…doesnt crankworx reward an overall winner? Its great and all, but the media doesnt give a sh1t about overalls, they should.

Emmeline Ragot and Gee won crankworx overall, I did not see it covered anywhere except more than a one line summary…when the reality is, whoever wins is the baddest mofo alive.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I built all those carbon bikes for Johnny! ya, party.

Doesnt the sea otter have a 'omnium' for an overall winner…doesnt crankworx reward an overall winner? Its great and all, but the media doesnt give a sh1t about overalls, they should.

Emmeline Ragot and Gee won crankworx overall, I did not see it covered anywhere except more than a one line summary…when the reality is, whoever wins is the baddest mofo alive.

We're talking about an overall that includes gravity and endurance disciplines. I haven't raced an event like that in 15 years, and it's a shame!
It's not going to attract the most elite riders, but that's ok. We are all just angling to bring back the stoke.
Here in the Northeast the riders who are winning our pro XC races were winning pretty legit DH races 10 years ago when the prize money made it worthwhile to show up...
It ain't Cali, our XC racers are BADASS and they never really get to showcase their full abilities as bike riders.

 

[dump]

Heck no.

This sounds great. Some of the most fun bike races I did were not at ski resorts. It definitely changes the flavor.

 

[dump]

I built all those carbon bikes for Johnny! ya, party.

Nice! Who knew!

I did not see it covered anywhere except more than a one line summary…when the reality is, whoever wins is the baddest mofo alive.

True.

 

[Author Unknown]

I'm in. Bust out the skinwall Tiogas!

 

[dump]

I'm in. Bust out the skinwall Tiogas!

I got my Dart and Smoke right here

 

[Sandwich]

I'd love to see an "old school" DH category. Bust out your Super 8s and maggie hydro's, no bikes newer than 2000.

Or a cantilever DH category. No hydraulics, no disks...v's or worse only!

 

[dump]

Cantilever only!

 

[Pslide]

You ever come across anything... like time travel?

 

[MDJ]

Fine, but I'm bringing back Spinergy Rev X wheels then. And 120mm stems.

120mm stems? That's not old school, that's neo-new school. 135mm minimum for old school with bonus points for 150mm.

 

[olddogbmxer]

Mickey is spot on with his comments about ski resorts as with very few exceptions they don't bring anything to the table except bureaucracy and owners that don't give a damn about the sport but just their profit. They are in business to make money so that is their emphasis(and what they are in business for) but we have become too dependent on them in this country for the majority of our gravity racing and in particular any type of gated racing.We need to come up with permanent free or low cost facilities instead of spending most of our efforts/resources in building and dealing with a ski resort for something that is available for only a short period of time and all the hassles that come with it.
Good luck hope your successful with this!