[4130biker]

Ok, here's what I need to replace on my demo 8:
Shifter
Rear derailleur
Cassette
Chain

If I had lots of money for this, I'd just buy x-9 everthing or Saint... but I'm on a bit of a budget, since I'm buying a new trail bike. I'm looking for suggested combos that you like, but fit the following:

-cheap
-light cassette
-8/9 speed- no care
-decent or good shifting
-somewhat durable
-medium or short cage

I know some have talked about 8 speed setups that are light and very positive shifting, but I have no clue where to start for that. I'm open to Shimano or Sram- thanks for any input!
(on yeah, i have a new 34t guidering to go with whatever I buy)

 

[daisycutter]

Shifters SRAM X7, 9-Speed Trigger

Rear Derailleur SRAM X9 Short Cage or x7 med cage (no short cage for x7)
(I would go with the x9 as it is much better then the x7)

Cassette SRAM PG 970DH MTB 11-26T 9-Speed

Chain SRAM PC-971

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

For Derailleur id also recommend x9. Since x7 is so crappy that it will end up costing you more.

 

[Jim Mac]

For Derailleur id also recommend x9. Since x7 is so crappy that it will end up costing you more.

Dunno, been using an X7 for years now, not as nice as X9 but it has been durable.

 

[PepperJester]

don't be scared to look in the buy and sell. You can often find some pretty good deals on drive train bits that are either new of damn near new.

 

[NorseManiac]

My x7 RD has been great. Buy x9 shifter and get the x7 RD, this is my setup and has been strong fro 2 seasons already.

 

[octanejake]

i would get the x9 rd and x7 shifter, thats what i did, its nice. 951 chains from sram are pretty good too

 

[William42]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned it, but SLX?

 

[Sghost]

Shifter > Rear derailleur

 

[BmxConvert]

Shifter > Rear derailleur

This.

You will get better performance out of a nicer shifter than a nicer derailleur.

 

[buildyourown]

8sp stuff is way cheaper, but you are really limited on shifter options shince Shimano doesn't make anything anymore.

Here's what run:

8sp Attack shifter
shimano chain
SRAM 12-26 PG-850
Any shimano der - an old short cage ultegra or 105 is perfect and cheap on ebay

That is one very cheap and durable drivetrain.

 

[ZoRo]

8sp Attack shifter
shimano chain
SRAM 12-26 PG-850
Any shimano der - an old short cage ultegra or 105 is perfect and cheap on ebay

That is one very cheap and durable drivetrain.

I agree. That's a good and cheap solution right there!

 

[roel_koel]

I gave up using anything higher spec. than X-7 mid cage for rear mechs, the X-9 don't last any better with SRAM and you will probably bend / explode it before it wears out (derailleur hanger mounting pivot goes sloppy)

after ruining an X-0 on a rock and wanting to cry at the replacement cost, I moved to X-7 and never looked back

spend the money on the shifter pod(s) I run X-9 or X-0, this makes a much bigger difference to the "crispness" of the shifting system


if you ride in a drier climate the cheap SRAM PC-951 chain works fine, for wetter climates the PC-971 is worth a little more money

if you run alloy freehub-body hubs then track down a deal on Shimano XT or SRAM PG-990 spider cassettes, if running a steel body then get the cheapest compatible cassette you can find!

 

[4130biker]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I agree with the going with the nicer shifter, BUT the combo I went with doesn't really allow that. I went with almost all of buildyourown's suggestions:

attack shifter $27 (free shipping)
pg 850 cassette, $23 I went 11-28 so I don't lose my top gear with my small front ring
I can't beleive how light that thing is for so cheap!
Used 105 derailleur $25
Shimano 8 speed chain $23

Just picked this all up on ebay, and only payed shipping on the derailleur ($6)!
I'm excited to try it out, I'll let you guys know what I think!
Seems like about 1/3 price of most of the other set ups I was considering!

 

[DhDork]

Honestly, you could have spent a little more time shopping a little more money and had a brand new 9sp drivetrain.

Sram X7 Short Cage

Sram X7 Rear Shifter


Sram PG-950 Cassette


Sram PC-951 Chain

 

[Sandwich]

yeah but that's 9 speed.

FWIW, I bought some NOS XTR 8 speed shifters, 50 bucks
I had an old XTR 8 speed 11-30 or 32 cassette...but it's the ti version
Bought an SRAM or XT level chain, 25 bucks
Saint RD from CRC

The setup is awesome but the big reason I like it so much is that saint RD. It's tucked out of the way and overbuilt, unlike the spindly offerings from SRAM. Nice heavy return spring. Nothing to report after two weak seasons of riding. I needed something with an integrated rollamajig for my bike's design, but wanted to use my XTR shifters...so I had to go with shimano.

I'll be pursuing an ultegra road cassette off fleabay for next year, the ratios aren't right for racing.

 

[4130biker]

Honestly, you could have spent a little more time shopping a little more money and had a brand new 9sp drivetrain.

Sram X7 Short Cage

Sram X7 Rear Shifter


Sram PG-950 Cassette


Sram PC-951 Chain

...Too late for me!
I'm excited to try 8 speed for the durability and postive shifting that I've heard about, so we'll see. I'm sure your shopping could help someone else. Unfortunately shipping from four different places on that stuff adds up.

I still have a drivetrain for $97, instead of $140 (x7), or over $300!
This was a very helpful thread- my dh bike will work good, and I've saved plenty for the trail bike!

 

[Sandwich]

let us know how it works!

 

[4130biker]

Well, I'm sad to report some bad news...
My attack shifter died before I ever got to ride it. I was stretching the cable before making final adjustments and it stripped some plastic gear so badly that it wouldn't shift. This stretching technique works fine on shifters with metal parts, but I guess the plastic parts inside the attack couldn't hang...Guess I should have known better. So I got lucky and had an awesome backup: my buddy had an xtr 8 speed shifter that he gave to me! I took off the cover and was amazed at how simple and robust it looked inside. What a cool shifter! Anyway, I got everything "fixed" again, and now I have the WORST skipping I have had in my life. NEW cassette, chain, chainring, straight derailleur, slightly bent hanger.
I'm not a hack mechanic, and this is seriously the worst skipping I have ever seen with a new chain/cassette/sprocket.
I am going to replace the hanger, but if that is it, I'm not sure if this setup is for me. I know it was bent, I fixed it, so I know it's not exactly perfect, but so close that you can't tell it's been bent.
What I'm getting at is that my super haggard 4 year old x9 that was bent to sh!t worked night and day better than this.
I'm kinda bummed that this setup is so sensitive.
Any ideas to save this?

I'm starting to wish I'd been a slightly less cheap cheap-ass and sprung for dhdorks x-7 idea. Oh well, live and learn. I did steer clear of wife trouble enough with this set up to score the new trail bike though!

 

[infamous24]

Did you replace your shifter cable housing and inner? Probably did, but just checking.

Also, even a slightly bent hanger will make your set-up skip. Hopefully that new one will fix it.

 

[4130biker]

Did you replace your shifter cable housing and inner? Probably did, but just checking.

Also, even a slightly bent hanger will make your set-up skip. Hopefully that new one will fix it.

Yep, brand new for both.

 

[4130biker]

...stripped some plastic gear so badly that it wouldn't shift.

...I'm not a hack mechanic...

God, maybe I am a hack mechanic!

 

[4130biker]

Ok, to sum up this thread, for people looking for a cheap drivetrain, here is what I found:

8 speed sounds great, but the lack of shifters is what did me in. I think if there was some availability of decent, new 8 speed shifters, I would have stuck with it. Tried the attack shifter, destroyed it, tried a used xtr shifter, it sucked. Replaced hanger, so the only bad part of the drivetrain I was running was the shifter, and the shifting/skipping was worse than a 12 year old mongoose mgx.

My next step was a THIRD 8 speed shifter, but I didn't want to throw more money at a drivetrain that was supposed to be cheap and end up with another bad shifter.

Long story short: I like the idea of 8 speed, but due to lack of availability on good shifters, I think that x7 is the way to go. Just replaced the whole shebang (x7 shifter, x7 der, 12-26 cassette and chain) for $150 from my local shop. Lesson learned, hopefully this will help someone else when searching for a cheap/reliable drivetrain.

Unfortunately, I could have had an "expensive" drivetrain after all of this, but I did get by long enough to score the new trail bike (which was the point of all this in the first place).

Dhdork, you were right, and thanks to everyone for their input.

 

[w00dy]

FWIW, Shimano still sells 8 speed shifters in the acera range. I've been using one of those for a couple of years now. No issues.
When it does crap out I'll buy another and still be under the cost of a "good" shifter.

 

[William42]

Also, shimano just moved their alivo product line to 9spd shadow, and it feels pretty much identical to 9spd xt shadow. That will probably be my next drivetrain (save for springing for a saint der), since it shifts damn well and is cheap.

Probably the best bang for your buck in a drivetrain on the market right now. feels way less plasticy then x7.

 

[4130biker]

Also, shimano just moved their alivo product line to 9spd shadow, and it feels pretty much identical to 9spd xt shadow. That will probably be my next drivetrain (save for springing for a saint der), since it shifts damn well and is cheap.

Probably the best bang for your buck in a drivetrain on the market right now. feels way less plasticy then x7.

Plasticy was old x7/x5. The new stuff has more metal parts rofl and feels quite good IMO. Just got done installing/test riding and I'm stoked. I also like that it's a decent short cage for only $60.

Cool to hear about the alivio, sounds like another good option.
I'm having trouble finding pics/info though...

 

[William42]

Plasticy was old x7/x5. The new stuff has more metal parts rofl and feels quite good IMO. Just got done installing/test riding and I'm stoked. I also like that it's a decent short cage for only $60.

Cool to hear about the alivio, sounds like another good option.
I'm having trouble finding pics/info though...

I couldn't navigate to it on shimano's site, but a google search pulled it up.

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/sg/index/products/mountain/Alivio_9_speed.html

Its not listed as shadow, but it has the same shape as the deore/slx/xt der's do. There is more stamped metal on them then there are on some of the higher end shimano, and they weigh more I think, but they feel identical. (and yes, you can get alivo shifter pods, not just available as a vbrake set).

I agree that the newer x7 feels alot better then older years, but after spending a couple years with shimano, my feeling is that sram, from x7-xx feels plasticy compared to shimano. I set up both pretty regularly at my shop.

That said, I honestly can't say I've ever had any trouble with my old x9 setup, it was pretty fuggin bombproof regardless of what the internet says. It developed a bit of slop in the bushings pretty quick, so it was a bit loud and rattly, but it took hits like a champ and didn't miss shifts. It was also a little less finicky then my saint when it comes to bent hangers.

 

[4130biker]

I couldn't navigate to it on shimano's site, but a google search pulled it up.

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/sg/index/products/mountain/Alivio_9_speed.html

Its not listed as shadow, but it has the same shape as the deore/slx/xt der's do. There is more stamped metal on them then there are on some of the higher end shimano, and they weigh more I think, but they feel identical. (and yes, you can get alivo shifter pods, not just available as a vbrake set).

I agree that the newer x7 feels alot better then older years, but after spending a couple years with shimano, my feeling is that sram, from x7-xx feels plasticy compared to shimano. I set up both pretty regularly at my shop.

That said, I honestly can't say I've ever had any trouble with my old x9 setup, it was pretty fuggin bombproof regardless of what the internet says. It developed a bit of slop in the bushings pretty quick, so it was a bit loud and rattly, but it took hits like a champ and didn't miss shifts. It was also a little less finicky then my saint when it comes to bent hangers.

Ok, that's the shimano site I pulled up, with the older looking derailleur. I'll keep my eye out for it.

Shimano does have a nice feel to it, and sram has been super durable for me as well, almost exact same experience as you with the x9.

Trade-offs for every choice I guess, funny how the internet tends to make things so black and white.

 

[William42]

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/sg/index/products/mountain/Alivio_9_speed/product.-code-RD-M430-L.-type-..html

you're getting the older looking der for that? I should look pretty much the same as deore/slx/xt 9speed stuff.

 

[Zark]

Alivio is 9spd now, but no shadow der.
Deore now has a shadow der though. The Deore hydros feel pretty damn good too.

 

[William42]

Alivio is 9spd now, but no shadow der.
Deore now has a shadow der though. The Deore hydros feel pretty damn good too.

I'll admit I never really got the "shadow" idea - is that just lower profile? I thought it was in reference to the way the der swung and the cable was routed.

edit: hmm, upon further inspection, I'm a dummy.

But I'll stand by the newest iteration of alivo shifting pretty well and feeling pretty good!

 

[Tomasis]

looked at shop sites. x9 is expensive as saint in europe. uhh.. so it becomes saint for me even if i wanted a budget .

I wish deore/SLX had short cages. well

if i break saint, so I move parts to new slx, lol

 

[Gary]

haven't read the whole thread so a lot of this might have been said already but for cheap and cheerful I'd go for the cheapest SRAM chain, a Tiagra road mech, HG50 8 speed cassette and either an 8 speed XT (if you can find one S/H or Sram Rocket/Attack shifter

SRAM chains seem to be stronger and come with powerlinks
Shimano Cassettes don't bend/snap like mid/low range SRAM (always do for me)
Road mechs are light and stiff and generally cheaper but if you have a frame design that old style mechs like to batter themselves off you need to tape some foam/rubber to the chainstay or mod the mech not to rotate as far (the right sized ziptie will work but needs replaced every so often). All mechs develop play pretty quickly with the abuse DH gives out and a decent shifter is far more important than a pricy mech.
And good routings with new cables can make the world of difference to shifting performance

 

[4130biker]

I wish deore/SLX had short cages.

x7 does now, at a similiar level to deore/slx...

 

[Sandwich]

That's so weird to me- I had my saint deraileur hanging with a half loose bolt and the sucker still shifted. I swear the xtr shifters are the best ever

 

[demo 9]

singlespeed?

 

[Tomasis]

why not!

 

[jason3559]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I agree with the going with the nicer shifter, BUT the combo I went with doesn't really allow that. I went with almost all of buildyourown's suggestions:

attack shifter $27 (free shipping)
pg 850 cassette, $23 I went 11-28 so I don't lose my top gear with my small front ring
I can't beleive how light that thing is for so cheap!
Used 105 derailleur $25
Shimano 8 speed chain $23

Just picked this all up on ebay, and only payed shipping on the derailleur ($6)!
I'm excited to try it out, I'll let you guys know what I think!
Seems like about 1/3 price of most of the other set ups I was considering!

I am not sure what was stated throughtout the rest of the thread, but I think you are the right path with the 105 (road). I ran a used ultegra short cage (all metal, very short cage compared to a mountain mech) and had zero issues (12 races, countless freeride). The only issue, the mech bounces around a lot. Find a good used LX shifter and a road cogset, and you are set.

Shifters do make a difference, but a new cable is as important in my book.