I might be a white male living in the midwest of the USA, but I'd rather poke my eyes out with a spoon than watch NASCAR.
California cops want to crush illegal street racing... literally!
- Thread starter Downhiller
- Start date
lol...yeah I try to appreciate all forms of auto racing as well as the cars themselves but I just can't get into Nascar...D
I'm talking the list they have based on track times for stock cars raced on the same track by the same driver. Opinions don't matter.
I guess you can make a Civic perform well, but how much money has been spent on those 2 FWD cars in order to make them compete at that level? How well would those drivers do in something like a stock S2000 or NSX?
I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of money trying to polish a turd only to end up with a brown rag. Maybe I'm just lazy, but I would rather start with a good known base than try to make something out of nothing.
The F1 question was posed simply cos it occurred to me and I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone new (cos I didn't without checking).
I see no correlation between F1 and road cars, and if anything I was trying to highlight the inevitability of this thread descending into pointless and irrelevant argument...
Still, anyone know? (and out of interest not a lot of Japanese or German built cars have won either in the last 50 years).
So.. clearly the Italians and the English build the best cars... :biggrin:
You could buy a couple of rather nice motorcycles for that money.
true comparing stock cars with no mods I can see many FWD cars not doing so well...but I can see why the Civic is such a popular platform.
Step1- Buy a used civic/integra for 3 grand
Step 2- Drop $12,000 in performance mods.
Step 3- Smoke any S2000 or NSX that will cost you a minimum of 20$0,000 just to buy a stock version.
Don't get me wrong I know you can tune a NSX or S2000 to kill any Civic...but money become a huge factor. My Integra was stomping all over S2000's, NSX's, Camro's, Vette's etc....and I spend less than half on my car than the others....but now I'm trying to get ahold of a Skyline
yeah that's to much...I spent about 10,000 on my 93 Integra which I paid 1,500 for...and it's plenty fast...D
I assume you're not referring to engine manufacturers in F1? Honda straight up DOMINATED Formula 1 for a long time, and so did BMW and Mercedes if I remember correctly. Ferrari was mostly a laughing stock until Schumacher arrived.
Nope - chassis manufacturers, mostly they had success with different engines whilst the engines have not always done so well in their own companies cars (Honda being a great example).
Ferrari where in a bad patch before Schumacher but were still one of the most successful outfits over time, champs in '75, '77, '79 for example and close in '90.
Yeah I dunno why Japanese companies haven't really made a solid stab at chassis development. I'd bet a solid number of the employees at McLaren/Sauber/Williams, etc are Japanese though.
And how much does that Civic/Integra sell for after you get bored? I see your point, but this is more of my idea.true comparing stock cars with no mods I can see many FWD cars not doing so well...but I can see why the Civic is such a popular platform.
Step1- Buy a used civic/integra for 3 grand
Step 2- Drop $12,000 in performance mods.
Step 3- Smoke any S2000 or NSX that will cost you a minimum of 20$0,000 just to buy a stock version.
Don't get me wrong I know you can tune a NSX or S2000 to kill any Civic...but money become a huge factor. My Integra was stomping all over S2000's, NSX's, Camro's, Vette's etc....and I spend less than half on my car than the others....but now I'm trying to get ahold of a Skyline
Step 1- Buy a used 300zx twin turbo for $6000
Step 2- Drive it.
Step 3- Get bored after a few years and sell it for $5800
Or this:
Step 1- Buy a used RX7 turbo for $6000
Step 2- Spend $6000 in mods
Step 3- Smoke any civic with 12k in mods.
You end up saving $3k (maybe much more) when you start with a good known base. Rear wheel drive, independent rear suspension, rear disc brakes, factory turbo plumbing.
Again, maybe I'm just lazy, but my '83 Supra cost $300. Had I spent $1000 on a 7mgte engine and another $1000 in supporting upgrades, my guess is it would have done very well against any $12k Civic. I know how well my '72 240z did against just about ANYTHING and it was only $3000 when I was done.
You'd be wrong about all three I think - I have passing acquaintance with employees of both McLaren and Williams and I know that they are predominantly English with some continental Europeans thrown in.
Sauber I am less familiar with but as they were until recently a midfield Swiss team and are now owned by BMW I would expect few Japanese there.
The prevailing wisdom is that the Japanese corporate ethos does not translate well to the team need (read chassis/aero as opposed to engine/power).
The 05-newer 'Vette is the only decent sports car Detroit has ever produced...Unless you count the Ford GT.
I see your point, the Z and the RX7 are both very solid and quick platforms, but there's a few factors you aren't thinking about when you see the prevalence of compact FWD tuner cars:
A) Availability - If I were to look around Salt Lake today, I'd be willing to bet 50$ I couldn't locate a used TT 300ZX or RX7 (newest gens), but I'd probably be able to find 1000 Civics/Integras/Corollas/etcs around.
B) Insurance costs - My VW costs $400 every six months to insure. I'm too lazy to check, but I'm damn near positive anything fast stock isn't going to fit that bill.
C) Practicality - You can use a tuned compact as a daily driver, drive it in the canyons, in the snow, haul bikes, etc...
yeah insurance on my Teg was 1200 a year for full coverage and they new I raced it...D
Not all rice burners are FWD civics. I have a 240sx, and it handles much better than a stock mustang or camaro. Now a corvette is in a different catagory, a skyline or supra is a better match if you are going to be comparing cars.
My Supra was $82 a month for full coverage (multi car discount and I have renters insurance too, but still).
After driving my friends 350z last week, I need to get myself one. I just sold my Supra to buy a bike, but that 6 speed setup is bad ass! The throw on the shifter is awesome. He got the base model (enthusiast?) and I wouldn't change a thing!
I miss my '72 240z though, I just don't know if I can find another that isn't either a rust bucket, or so overpriced it's a joke. I want to built it out like this:
Datsun Z based kit. It's the hotness.
now that's a sweet ride...DMy Supra was $82 a month for full coverage (multi car discount and I have renters insurance too, but still).
After driving my friends 350z last week, I need to get myself one. I just sold my Supra to buy a bike, but that 6 speed setup is bad ass! The throw on the shifter is awesome. He got the base model (enthusiast?) and I wouldn't change a thing!
I miss my '72 240z though, I just don't know if I can find another that isn't either a rust bucket, or so overpriced it's a joke. I want to built it out like this:
Datsun Z based kit. It's the hotness.
An old supra has an outrageous price/performance ratio. So ridiculously easy to make it fast... and relatively easy to make it handle.
However, for autocross, I think a CRX with the same investment might win by virtue of weight and wheelbase...
yeah I have a buddy who's CRX is below 1900lbs
..with an RSX 225hp motor in it....D
..with an RSX 225hp motor in it....D
Dayum, what are you talking about in the 1/4 mile?yeah I have a buddy who's CRX is below 1900lbs
"Nascar is the special olympics of Auto Racing" - Manimal (circa 2005)
yeah, like fiat and rover
I'm not exactly sure but my car pulls low 13's and he smoked me by at least 2.5 lengths...D
EDIT: well he says mid elevens
Well i know that in 2004 The VW Golf GTI was car of the year. And it is FWD.
It's called humour...yeah, like fiat and rover
It would probably be cheaper to build a 10 second...but now I'm trying to get ahold of a Skyline
well I want 4wd and Skylines go for about 6-10 grand for a project car....D
Dude, 4wd means you'll be rubbish in corners and straight lines. What's wrong with you?
oh yeah I know Full race well...my last teg had a custom turbo kit from them and traction bar....D
rad. love those cars. i'm seeing quite a few around these days (along with swarms of the funny little japanese market micro vans & cars). i imagine the r33's should be coming over here soon (assuming the 15 year import restriction). is servicing / getting parts for these cars an issue?...but now I'm trying to get ahold of a Skyline
I don't think so...I'm looking into that now...but companies like HKS and Blitz offer a good selection not to mention a few others. I went to the local Nissan dealer and they said they can get and fix about 90% of whatever I may need. As soon as I buy a house the Skyline is next...D
Which is odd, because Honda is an English team and Toyota is a German team...
There really aren't any "Japanese" F1 teams. There are Japanese companies that pay through the nose to come in 12-20th place though
