I don't no nothin much,but I do know when I put ceramic bearings in my hubs they were noticeably faster rolling,which equals less pedaling,which equals a happier lung for me.
Canfield Wheelset
- Thread starter demo 9
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Thats what I want to do next or in the near next thing I do...
Ceramic bearings in both wheelsets.. Where did you get em, what are your thoughts on them and how long/maintenance etc...Thanks in advance...
I know ceramic has 30% less drag supposedly to conventional..
No worries, My point wasnt based on that, what I was trying to establish is it wasnt a phone call or a premeditated sales pitch or something off a site rather what he was thinking based on his excitement and talking about a whole lot of stuff off topic. So yeah I appologize for the arrogance of it, that wasnt the intention but rather a bros conversation without a driving sales pitch rather... Either way enjoy a beer for me"i call lance by lance but i have all sorts of stuff i call chris"
"i called him today"
"I think it was a quote Chris liked when he was at the house we were chatting it up over the new stuff coming down the pipe..."
"He has been giving me crap about my expensive wheels..."
Damn Bullcrew, I guess we all know how cool you are!
You're "in" with the "industry folks". In case we didn't know before, we know now. Thanks!!
And no, don't get mad... I just finished this thread and your posts struck me humorously. Maybe its all the brews. I'm just f*&%ing with you in good fun
Nibbles.
Saying 1 of 4 factors matters substantially is unreasonable because air is by an enormous margin the biggest of those 4. Plus, what kind of DH race course really has a section that's perfectly smooth?
Let me put it this way: I've managed a shop that serves primarily roadies for 5 years. One of our regulars, a pretty good Cat 2 guy set his PR on the local TT course one night (this is a weekly event he's been running for a decade) and then comes in to the shop for BB noise, and it turns out we can't turn the spindle of his BB without a crank arm on it for leverage. Is there a difference in freehub drag between hubs? Sure. Is it big difference? Hell no.
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Freehub drag can add a sh!tton of rolling resistance - similar or greater to that of a slow rolling tire.
More importantly, it can cause upper chainline droop if it's bad enough. Trust me, that's all sorts of fun when a drooping chain blows up on you and locks up your rear wheel AND your cranks at the same time.
Freely spinning hubs make me happy in the pants.
I know all their bikes and parts are made in Taiwan now, but for fvcks sake can't they get their website text done domestically?? That's about as bad as seeing "damping" called "dampening" on the website or documentation of a suspension manufacturer or tuner.
More importantly, it can cause upper chainline droop if it's bad enough. Trust me, that's all sorts of fun when a drooping chain blows up on you and locks up your rear wheel AND your cranks at the same time.
Freely spinning hubs make me happy in the pants.
I know all their bikes and parts are made in Taiwan now, but for fvcks sake can't they get their website text done domestically?? That's about as bad as seeing "damping" called "dampening" on the website or documentation of a suspension manufacturer or tuner.
Gotta agree on this one here. Your hub has to be pretty darn sticky for it to make much of a difference. When you have the weight of the bike and the rider pointed downhill, then freehub drag is a pretty small part of the overall equation. Given two hubs- one having less drag than the other and both otherwise being equal...yeah, of course I'd choose the one with less....but things are almost never equal.
I'm not talking about a freehub with seized bearings, I'm talking about one in proper working condition. Does riding a fixie DH suck? No fvcking kidding. Does riding a hub that's got a little drag, but works fine matter much? Hell no. My pudgy, drunk ass has been hitting podiums on Cat 1 XC races on King hubs which have a lot of drag by most standards on a semi regular basis.
The Right One:
http://www.pacific-cycles.com/
The one you think about :
http://www.pacific-cycle.com/
That about sums up my relationship with them as well... Lance and Ummm... I'll be nice here... Chris is a good bro of mine and we give each other our share of $hit from time to time!!!
You can get them through the BTI catalogue .I think cost was around 40 per wheel.Thats what I want to do next or in the near next thing I do...
Ceramic bearings in both wheelsets.. Where did you get em, what are your thoughts on them and how long/maintenance etc...Thanks in advance...
I know ceramic has 30% less drag supposedly to conventional..
My dh bike is my xc bike,so they have maybe 50 hrs on them.No maintenance on them at all.Course, I live in the desert,so no water issues.
The good thing is that .02% of people reading this will buy them anyway.So you can roll faster with less effort and drop them easier.I actually haven't told any of the locals about them,cuz it's that noticeable.
Peat used to,maybe still does replace the grease with lighter fluid for his race runs.It's pretty funny how DHers can downplay rolling resistance in a gravity sport.If your just a guy that rides with sherpas backpack downhill,thats one thing.But if you race seriously take every advantage.I've got ceramic bearings,c xray spokes,and 721 rims and if I can figure a way to fennagle
carbon rims I'll get those too.Screw my mortgage.....it'll be there again next month.
Why does the Canfield list only 2 frames now(the one is on close out)? Are they changing into a bike part company?
Thats the spirit! LOL
Thanks I appreciate the info and mini review, Im going to order monday for the I9s and Hadleys what the hell the I9s are a solid nasty year on the same bearings so they probably need to be replaced they have seen snow, rivers, mud, dust etc and Im sure are starting to hit there life expectancy...
Thanks!
Right onNo worries, My point wasnt based on that, what I was trying to establish is it wasnt a phone call or a premeditated sales pitch or something off a site rather what he was thinking based on his excitement and talking about a whole lot of stuff off topic. So yeah I appologize for the arrogance of it, that wasnt the intention but rather a bros conversation without a driving sales pitch rather... Either way enjoy a beer for me
...oh, and I will!
Well from the sounds of things they will have a 29er hardtail, a DJ hardtail, and 2 DH bikes....
Nibbles.
Bwahahahahaha!!!
Bwahahahahaha!!!
Actualy the other fully is more like their fr rig.
Hey everyone-
Thanks for the spelling help. English was never my strong point.
We'll get those mistakes fixed on the site when we can.
The rolling speed is really noticeable.
And Yes, this is the only non-custom product we do. But the hubs rule and we are proud to bring out a really low cost wheelset that is light and perfect for the racers.
We do have a custom rim we are working on. 30mm wide at about 550 grams.
Which should come out on the next round of wheels.
cheers
C2
Thanks for the spelling help. English was never my strong point.
We'll get those mistakes fixed on the site when we can.
The rolling speed is really noticeable.
And Yes, this is the only non-custom product we do. But the hubs rule and we are proud to bring out a really low cost wheelset that is light and perfect for the racers.
We do have a custom rim we are working on. 30mm wide at about 550 grams.
Which should come out on the next round of wheels.
cheers
C2
nibbles was a spelling mistake.
****.
****.
So....you're saying that wasn't an classic English/Chinese language fox pass?
wow..
Can they still say "Cranflield" on the decals?It's soo fun to say.
Jeez guys relax.
I was chatting with Chris at the beginning of the year and somehow we ended up talking about hubs. I asked him which one he thought was the best and he gave me his opinion on popular hubs (Pro II, Hadley, Chris King). I asked about service intervals and sealing quality of the bearings of Hadley hubs and he told me he was using a Formula hub that had polished bearing races and could spin forever. Apparently he ran that hub for quite some time without maintenance over muddy courses without issues with seals and bearings.
He told me one time he was riding down a fire road and he saw one of his friends on a similar Jedi pedaling while he was just coasting. He swapped bikes and his bike still rolled downhill faster than his friend's Jedi, so after going though the setup he figured it was the hub.
Then he told me he was thinking in bringing out a wheelset with that hub because he thought it was so much better than other hub offerings today, and I told him it would be a good idea.
10 months later we have a Canfield Wheelset. Chris ain't rebadging hubs and rims just to bring out "another" product, he initially thought he could sell light and strong wheelsets with that amazing hub that is quite difficult to get a hold of.
I was chatting with Chris at the beginning of the year and somehow we ended up talking about hubs. I asked him which one he thought was the best and he gave me his opinion on popular hubs (Pro II, Hadley, Chris King). I asked about service intervals and sealing quality of the bearings of Hadley hubs and he told me he was using a Formula hub that had polished bearing races and could spin forever. Apparently he ran that hub for quite some time without maintenance over muddy courses without issues with seals and bearings.
He told me one time he was riding down a fire road and he saw one of his friends on a similar Jedi pedaling while he was just coasting. He swapped bikes and his bike still rolled downhill faster than his friend's Jedi, so after going though the setup he figured it was the hub.
Then he told me he was thinking in bringing out a wheelset with that hub because he thought it was so much better than other hub offerings today, and I told him it would be a good idea.
10 months later we have a Canfield Wheelset. Chris ain't rebadging hubs and rims just to bring out "another" product, he initially thought he could sell light and strong wheelsets with that amazing hub that is quite difficult to get a hold of.
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was he avoiding the question?
If the races are polished, wouldn't that mean open bearings? So wouldn't they be susceptible to the same problems that happen with Shimano hubs? That means more maintenance, possibility of pitted races, etc....
And sorry, but I still call bull**** marketing at its best. 2 reasons.
The guys at Canfield are going to claim that they've discovered a magic hub with technology that nobody else has, particularly the HUB COMPANIES? Hadley? King? I9? Somehow Canfield has found the holy grail to hub bearings over everyone else?
Second, if its an open bearing, the rolling differences between a good sealed bearing (especially ceramic) and a tuned open bearing will still be minimal really, especially considering all the other factors (mud, terrain, hell let throw in wind resistance for fun).
Its funny, but had they have just come out and said they're good strong wheels at a decent price, nobody would have said anything. I think people are getting more tuned into marketing rubbish much better these days.
And sorry, but I still call bull**** marketing at its best. 2 reasons.
The guys at Canfield are going to claim that they've discovered a magic hub with technology that nobody else has, particularly the HUB COMPANIES? Hadley? King? I9? Somehow Canfield has found the holy grail to hub bearings over everyone else?
Second, if its an open bearing, the rolling differences between a good sealed bearing (especially ceramic) and a tuned open bearing will still be minimal really, especially considering all the other factors (mud, terrain, hell let throw in wind resistance for fun).
Its funny, but had they have just come out and said they're good strong wheels at a decent price, nobody would have said anything. I think people are getting more tuned into marketing rubbish much better these days.
Nope, he answered it and then told me about his hub.
they did say they have nibbles. I9, Hadley and CK cant top that
Nibbles are key.
Did he mention how many shimz per nibble?
Did he mention how many shimz per nibble?
quoting 1 : editing 0
Price for the wheelset is ok if the build quality is good.
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They are not open bearings. A bearing company can polish the surfaces before assembly and still get sealed.
I don't think it is marketing bull**** at all. Canfield Brothers are cool guys that are in this business just to bring out great products. Why so much hate against Canfield dude? Chill out.
This wheelset is now a great option compared to Azonic's Outlaw wheelset with crappy hubs and crappy Azonic customer service. And if you are willing to spend 100 more bucks, this wheelset is probably much much better than Transition's.
Anyway, I just wanted to share the story.
Every bearing company does this. What I'm saying is that I doubt that a $400 MSRP wheelset is going to somehow magically have better bearings than companies whose sole business is making hubs.
No hate against Canfield. Actually I gotta give them credit for keeping the Jedi at such a good price ($2600 according to the site) when other companies are raising prices for no apparent reason, or charging big money to start. More companies should do that.
That said, the C boys are very guilty of the marketing fluff BS for sure. Look at the description for the Jedi. "Fastest Bike in the world and still pushing it."? Yeah, I think that might be a stretch. Can't blame them for playing the game, but you can definitely tease them for being so blatant and obvious about it.
See? THATS what they should put. I dunno that they can claim a better wheel than the Transition stuff, but its still a good option at a good price. They say that, and I can't tease them about over the top marketing rhetoric horse****.
I'll leave it at this. I met Lance Canfield at Crankworx Colorado when he finished right behind me in downhill. Nice guy and his time is indicative of a rider who knows what he's doing. It's cool that he's selling a wheelset that's pretty light and costs about what I pay for a rear wheel. If he says that the components were carefully chosen and work well I trust him.
I felt the differance in hub drag but only in XC riding. I agree with you that on dh the minimal differance (on xc I have all the time to think about crap like hub drag) wont be noticable.
no moar nibbles...
Were they rolling too fast and flew away?
Read the book "Bicycling Science". Bearing friction of decent steel bearings on bikes is so small that it is not only imperceptible to riders, but basically irrelevant to their power output as well. Ceramic bearings might be slightly lighter, and very high-zoot, but they're basically pointless.
Go to rec.bicycles.tech and search for "ceramic bearings" to find out what some real experts like Jobst Brandt think of them.
Go to rec.bicycles.tech and search for "ceramic bearings" to find out what some real experts like Jobst Brandt think of them.
I ran some numbers on a local (SoCal) forum for some guy who was claiming a huge difference out of a ceramic BB, and estimated that it would save someone an absurdly small amount of time over the entire TDF, much less one of his rides. He called me a liar.
The bearings will make less of a difference than the friction and drag forces induced by the seal type, and lubricant viscosity.
These guys have been able to attack the Shimano stock bearing setup for BBs because Shimano happened to use a contact seal setup designed for high speed, high temp, water service motor applications. This was because they were common, easy to find bearings that will stand up and keep water and grime out.
The ceramic bearings the other guys are marketing make their biggest difference in seal configurations, opting for labryinth seals instead of contact - greatly reducing the drag on the bearings....regardless of actual bearing composition and performance.
These guys have been able to attack the Shimano stock bearing setup for BBs because Shimano happened to use a contact seal setup designed for high speed, high temp, water service motor applications. This was because they were common, easy to find bearings that will stand up and keep water and grime out.
The ceramic bearings the other guys are marketing make their biggest difference in seal configurations, opting for labryinth seals instead of contact - greatly reducing the drag on the bearings....regardless of actual bearing composition and performance.
Yeah, seal drag and ratchet drag are way bigger than bearing drag.