Anyone know how about how much a large frame would weigh or could point me in the right direction to find out? I checked cannondale's web site, but there's no weight listed.
The boss at the shop and I discussed this yesterday. I would get a Prophet MX over a Heckler.This thread has some build weights, which is pretty much what I've been able to satisfy myself with at the moment.
I'm currently torn between a heckler or a prophet or a mkIII for a trail bike, but the prophet is winning out because you can adjust the geo for more dh oriented fun.
The mkIII frame is at 6lbs, the heckler at 6.4... what would be really rad would be to find out the weights for the prophet and the prophet MX.
My current build would put everything but the frame at ~22 lbs, and I don't want to go too much over 30. Would over 8 lbs be impossible for a prohphet? Where are the e-speculators when I need them?
I saw one a year before they were available and I have ridden both. I don't dislike the Heckler, especially since I work for a SC/Cannondale dealer. And being in Norkal, I will probably sell 5 SC to 1 C/Dale.So you haven't see the new Heckler then The Prophet is now the one that is old in the tooth.
Its has hydroforming, lifetime warranty on bearings, 6069, comes in anodized finish, more travel, and it has a lower leverage ratio than the Prophet. A 10mm thru-axle works just fine and you can run a DT-swiss RWS for a psuedo maxlish rear end
Weight 6 lbs 9 oz. size large anodized frame with RP23
Thanks for the info. I thought you might have been talking about the shock placement.Heckler v5 - 2.5" stroke to get 6"
Prophet MX - 2" stroke to get 5.5"
Heckler has lower leverage ratio - in theory - easier on the shock, more controllable, lower pressures, and it will work better for Clydesdales. HT is warrantied with up to a 170mm fork too. Pricing and wider range of spec is available on the Heckler IMHO.
Ah, NO...heh. Didn't you notice the Prophet has the dual shock mount position for 69 and 67.5 - its angles aren't that different than the Heckler (v4 and v5) have the same geometry. Maybe they should raise the BB slightly though, its pretty low in the slack position...I have to ask the C/Dale rep if they will change the geo for the MX next year. Basically, it is a stock Prophet with a thru12 rear triangle. They should beef up and slacken it to compete with the Heckler.
Yeah thats probably a petite, their weights and geometry are pretty similar.edit: C/Dale lists the regular Prophet at 5.25 lbs. Assuming that is without shock, add 1lb for a DHX Air and you get 6.25lbs, if you believe C/Dale.
Ah, NO...heh. Didn't you notice the Prophet has the dual shock mount position for 69 and 67.5 - its angles aren't that different than the Heckler (v4 and v5) have the same geometry. Maybe they should raise the BB slightly though, its pretty low in the slack position...
Here is the v5 Heckler geometry:
http://www.santacruzmtb.com/heckler.5/index.php?geometry=1&x=-5
I don't put too much stock in Cannondale's sanded welds. I don't go so far as to call them Crack'n Fail like some people do though. Taiwan can make whatever quality you want to spec - that doesn't make any difference.
You are saying manufacturers lie about frame weight?!?!?!?!? Next thing you will tell me is that my President lies too!!!!!Yeah thats probably a petite, their weights and geometry are pretty similar.
Lifetime even on the DH bikes, as the C/Dale rep reminded me yesterday.Cannondale does not sand their welds, they go over them a second time without adding filler material. This is supposed to ensure proper penetration and smooths out the welds. Cannondale does have a kick ass warranty.
I've always been impressed with the fit and finish of C'dale frames too. Santa Cruz, not so much. Of course that matters little when riding.Lifetime even on the DH bikes, as the C/Dale rep reminded me yesterday.
Cannondale does not agree with you:Cannondale does not sand their welds, they go over them a second time without adding filler material. This is supposed to ensure proper penetration and smooths out the welds. Cannondale does have a kick ass warranty.
From this page: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/03/cusa/model-3RS6Y.htmlHand-Finished Welds. The beautiful welds on every Cannondale frame are hand-sanded to eliminate stress risers. The elimination of stress risers allows us to use lighter, thinner tubes without compromising the strength of our frames.
Only matters when breaking....I've always been impressed with the fit and finish of C'dale frames too. Santa Cruz, not so much. Of course that matters little when riding.
Yes function is the only critical thing especially with a MTB.Of course that matters little when riding.
Cannondale does not agree with you:
From this page: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/03/cusa/model-3RS6Y.html
I chatted with boss just now, who has been selling Cannondales since the early 90's. He said Cannondale only does one weld pass, with a lot of filler material, and then sand it down.Cannondale does not agree with you:
Hand-Finished Welds. The beautiful welds on every Cannondale frame are hand-sanded to eliminate stress risers. The elimination of stress risers allows us to use lighter, thinner tubes without compromising the strength of our frames.
Dirt Rag said:The smooth finish is created by a two-pass, puddle welding technique that Cannondale employs. Cannondale points out that their welding technique produces better penetration than welds that exhibit the typical "stack of dimes" appearance.
Yeah - I was told the same as your boss. If was so great a technique how come its use isn't that widespread by others?I chatted with boss just now, who has been selling Cannondales since the early 90's. He said Cannondale only does one weld pass, with a lot of filler material, and then sand it down.
Especially with thin oversized big tubes...I thought about the second pass, and considering that aluminum and steel weakens from heat, double welds seems like a bad idea.
You know that is a bad argument to question why does only one company perform this welding method. Could be from it costs more to that it requires higher trained workers.Yeah - I was told the same as your boss. If was so great a technique how come its use isn't that widespread by others?
No doubt. To suggest that Cannondale sands over their welds so as to cover up shoddy workmanship is a little sill to me. Plenty of capable welders out there.All I can absolutely say is that there is an engineering reason for this, not a cost-cutting rationale.
I have a Prophet 4x if you want to take a look/ride...The boss at the shop and I discussed this yesterday. I would get a Prophet MX over a Heckler.
While the Heckler is a hot bike, Cannondale welds are far superior to any other aluminum frame from a large manufacturer. They also hydroformed the rear triangle way before any other single pivot manufacturer.
I rather get the 12mm thru axle for the improved stiffness. I would prefer going with a Pike or 36 for travel adjustment and wheel compatibility, but the Lefty Max is a lighter fork than both of those.