[dump]

Here's the story:

I'm on my 3rd battery in as many months - something's wrong with my car. We're not leaving anything on - no lights, etc. Can't figure out what's going on.

Nov 15
Battery died in late Nov - thought it was just a poor battery (my dad put it in about 1 year previously before giving me the car - I thought it was the one that had been sitting in it for the past 3 years as he didn't really drive it, but after speaking with him later, he said he replaced it with a brand new one before I got it). Took it to the shop and the determined it was a bad battery.
-> Resolution: Replaced with a new battery. $165.

Drove cross country, no issues, moved to Canada.

Jan 12 - Left the car in the long term parking lot for 3 weeks while away on holiday.
Got back and it was dead. It had been pretty cold and the AAA/CAA guy at the airport told us that it was likely the battery froze... water got in there & probably froze. Well, he tested that the car would charge and put a new battery in it.
-> Resolution: Replaced with new battery. $180.

Feb 20
Had been driving the car about twice a week with no issues. Hadn't touched it all of last week and went out to shovel. Decided to start the car and the battery gave me a weak feel and wouldn't start. There was a click sound, but it wouldn't start. The clock was still on & the automatic doors opened.

pretty pissed @ this point, clearly something more than a battery problem

Feb 21
Car completely dead - no juice to power the clock or open the auto doors.

Any thoughts/suggestions on wtf might be going on here?

1996 Volvo 850, 130K

Much appreciated.

- m

 

[TrailzHozer]

my guess - your alternator is dying (or is dead)

 

[thom9719]

my guess - your alternator is dying (or is dead)

Yup, pretty simple system. Take your car to a schucks/o'reily/checker etc. most of them do free diagnostic testing on those parts. depending on your car, you might not even have to remove the alternator (although it is usually really simple, just a couple of bolts, a cable and a belt)

the other thing is check your connections. you might have some corrosion, loose wire, or a frayed cable. a little more unlikely, but really easy to check for and fix if it isn't the alternator.

-KT

 

[Toshi]

my guess - your alternator is dying (or is dead)

Seems logical

 

[IH8Rice]

new alternator is in order

 

[dump]

Thanks for the feedback all - what's an alternator typically run?

btw, sorry for posting in the wrong forum (meant to post in the lounge)

 

[ChrisKring]

the other thing is check your connections. you might have some corrosion, loose wire, or a frayed cable. a little more unlikely, but really easy to check for and fix if it isn't the alternator.

-KT

^^^^^^ check that first

 

[Whoops]

the alternator belt..?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

the alternator belt..?

Most everything nowadays runs on one serpentine belt.

 

[LukeD]

I thought it was all about ball bearings these days..

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

check the belt, make sure its tight. usually a 14mm socket and a crowbar is enough to tighten.
do you have a voltmeter at hand?
check the alternator. should be about 12.7-13 at idle, should crank out about 13.5-14v at 3000rpm, should not drop below 11.5v when cranking up the engine.
if these things are ok, then there is probably a current leak somewhere. unplug the - cable and see what current goes thru with the ignition off and the car keys out.
if there is a leak, take the car to a mechanic. could take 10 minutes or 3 days to figure out.

 

[snowaddict91]

Most everything nowadays runs on one serpentine belt.

my mitsubishi is a 99 and has 3 belts, his volvo very well could be that way

 

[davec113]

The alternator needs to be load tested, just measuring voltage isn't good enough, although it gives a strong indication that it's ok.

Check and replace all corroded wiring from battery to ground, bat. to starter, bat. to alternator. Corroded wires need to be replaced, not just cleaned. I've ran into wires that look perfect but do not conduct electricity anymore. If you KNOW they are newer wires you can clean them, but if you're not sure, replace them.

Check for a electrical "leak", by attaching a current clamp to the + bat lead. If there is a leak (sounds very likely), remove fuses one by one until the meter stops reading a leak. Now you know what circuit is causing the leak, go find the bad wire or device by moving the current clamp to individual wires in the circuit or visual inspection.

Sorry to say that there is no fixed price for electrical problems. You will get billed for every minute the technician looks at your car, and there is no gaurantee he will find a problem wihin a given amount of time. For this reason, it's best to try to figure it out yourself unless you have lots of extra cash.

Also, you got screwed before, it's possible to recharge a deal lead acid battery at least a few times before it is dead for good. And, batteries cost $60 average, so you got way overcharged and they didn't even fix the real problem.

 

[greengreer]

You will get billed for every minute the technician looks at your car, and there is no gaurantee he will find a problem wihin a given amount of time.

Actually you will likely get billed for more time than the mechanic actually works on your car. Most places have a guide that tells them how long it "should" take to fix something, they bill you on that. A good (read: smart) mechanic will work much faster than that.

Yea its probably an alternator. If you need to look up how it costs try napa.com or autozone's site or something. I would recommend a Napa gold part if you plan to keep you car for awhile, made in the US (at least they were) and better quality than most others.
Also would be a great time to put in a new belt(s), at the very least check your old one(s)

 

[davec113]

Actually you will likely get billed for more time than the mechanic actually works on your car. Most places have a guide that tells them how long it "should" take to fix something, they bill you on that. A good (read: smart) mechanic will work much faster than that.

No, not for electric work. There is no standard, you get billed for however long it takes. When I did electric jobs I'd give the customer my best guess, but there are no guarantees or firm estimates.

And yes, I loved doing shocks and brakes, you make a freakin' fortune. I could do those jobs in 1/2 book time in a lot of cases, and you make good money on parts too.

 

[DirtyMike]

Slow down just a touch...... dont replace the alternator just yet... while it is a likely cause, there are a few more quickie steps to check to either show you another problem, or ensure its the alternator

This is the run down if I had this in my shop,
1, I would check voltage, Yeah I know silly, but serious at the same time, check it at the battery, and the alternator, note any difference... more than a volt... fix the connection
2, flip the DVOM to AC volts.... Yes thats right, AC volts..... if your getting much more than a volt and a half of AC at the battery, your alternator is bad<diodes to be exact. Problem there is that your alt can load check ok, and be putting out decent voltage/amperage...but what your not seeing is, that everytime it hits the bad diode, its reversing polarity, which kills the abttery.
3, Full load test with the VAT... usually by then its apparent

4, if not apparent by then, move to next step.

5, switch your DVOM over to amperage, make sure everything is off, then remove the ground cable on the battery, hook up your DVOM like a fuze between the terminal and the battery..... take note of the amperage draw.... some cars it will be normal to see up to 5 amp draw for 30 to 45 seconds..... then it should drop to near nothing, I personally dont like to see over an amp.... if you have more than an amp, I like to start by pulling one fuse and reinstall till you see the amperage drop.... If that is happening, then chase the circuit and repair......

My bet youll find a bad diode in the alternator, and be in need of replacement. I see this alot when batteries keep dieing every month or two.


I do have one question for you though.... what brand of battery are you using????

 

[DirtyMike]

Actually you will likely get billed for more time than the mechanic actually works on your car. Most places have a guide that tells them how long it "should" take to fix something, they bill you on that. A good (read: smart) mechanic will work much faster than that.

Yea its probably an alternator. If you need to look up how it costs try napa.com or autozone's site or something. I would recommend a Napa gold part if you plan to keep you car for awhile, made in the US (at least they were) and better quality than most others.
Also would be a great time to put in a new belt(s), at the very least check your old one(s)

It doesnt exactly work like that. Yeah most of us all have the Mitchell labor guide which we price everything out with, and any advanced Tech will beat the labor times listed.... Its not because we are scamming or anything like that, its that we have done the jobs over and over, have alot of cool specialty tool, and just get good at what we do. Youll also find on the other end of the spectrum when we have something we havent done before, we end up losing our shirts when it takes us twice as long as the labor guide shows.....

Alot of it comes down to that yournot just paying for our time, but our knowledge and tools as well.

Sometimes your the windsheild, sometimes your the bug... its just life

 

[greengreer]

I didn't mean to imply that you guys were scamming anyone. The labor guide is pretty fair in my opinion and allows people to get quoted on labor.
Plus it seems like alot of you guys are getting screwed with by the manufacturers withholding the computer codes.
I used to work in a restoration shop so I know the other way, theres pros and cons to each.

 

[DirtyMike]

Eh, they cant withhold that info, the real trick is knowing what codes are pretty direct, and which are a symptom. Its a Huge perception that if you know the code, you know the problem, Out of hundreds and hundreds of global, and Manf specific codes..... Maybe ten are directly leading to the true problem. Decifering is the real trick.

Oh, and I didnt take it as you were saying we scam, but alot of people do take it that way.

 

[5150dhbiker]

Check your bumper fluid.
Could also be the flux capacitor.

 

[Sandwich]

My guess is the alt. with a possible bad connection.

I had a conquest that kept blowing alternators and losing charge. When I bought it, it was fine, but then the thing died on me. Did some internet, and what I found was something called a "fusable link" which basically acts as a fuse in the form of a wire. Anyways, I replaced that, and was good to go.

I would suggest a new alternator and a double check of the connections. You can take the alternator to a shop to have them test it, though they may be able to check it for you.

www.thepartsbin.com has been very good to me in the past for mail order replacement parts.

 

[Haywoodublowme]

Also check and make sure the glove box or ash tray light aren't staying on.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

If the alternator is dead and not charging then you would notice it most when driving, since thats when the most load is on the electrical system (ignition, DRL, stereo etc), the battery would die pretty quickly, esp driving at night.

If the battery dies when the car is not running there is something draining it, like someone said, leaky electronics, salt build up (if you're near either the ocean or lots of snow), faulty interior light switches etc can all lead to dead batteries when the car is not moving.

If you have a multi meter, check the volts on the battery, check it with the engine off (should be about 12ish volts), check with the engine running and spinning a bit above idle, say 3k rpm, you should see 14.4 or 13.8V depending on the regulator. The high voltage is the alternator charging the battery.

Now, simple load test, rev the engine, turn off all loads (lights etc), measure the battery voltage, keep rpm the same, switch on everything (rear defroster, HVAC fan, lights etc anything you can think of) if voltage remains at around 13.8V then the alternator is providing current, if it quickly collapses to 12ish volts then the battery is supplying the bulk of the current and the alternator is faulty.

If the charging system is ok, then you have to do what someone else suggested, get a clamp meter, see if there is a "leak" and disconnect fuses till it goes away.

 

[dump]

Appreciate the feedback all - I'm unfortunately not equipped to do the tests you describe - no garage & no real tools anymore, so I'll have to take it to the shop. Hopefully the shop gets this sorted - thanks!

If I had to guess at this point, it would probably be a current leak somewhere or bad connections.

Will let you know how it goes.

 

[IH8Rice]

autozone or pepboys can usually do load testing on the alternator for free.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I test my load every day.

 

[DirtyMike]

autozone or pepboys can usually do load testing on the alternator for free.

Yeah..... if you value your vehicle, dont go there. There is a reason they are working at autozone and pepboys and not for a place that pays real money<IE more than ten an hour>

 

[IH8Rice]

Yeah..... if you value your vehicle, dont go there. There is a reason they are working at autozone and pepboys and not for a place that pays real money<IE more than ten an hour>

ive had no problems when ive been there, but i guess since i know what im doing and watching them work over their shoulder i didnt have a problem.
its not really that hard to hook up a load tester and press a button, but you are right....they are working at pepboys for a reason

 

[DirtyMike]

Yeah I fix alot of stuff that the AZ and Pep boys touch first..... or see alot of parts that have been sold to the customer for no reason from pep and AZ all the time. They both do a free scan, then sell you a part... No Diag inolved, just a code, and they say its this part... sometimes they get it, for the most part, I get the car a week later when the problem still exists.

It really isnt that hard to hook up a load tester, but with the wrong info involved.... it could be the end of the part being tested!!! Gotta love when you see them Vat a 500CCA battery at 1200.

 

[dump]

So I took it to the shop (new in town, never been to this shop, but got a recommendation), explained it the guy the situation. He calls me back a couple hours later & says the alternator is fine & the battery is fine.

Gah!

I explain to him again... he does understand and is going to keep it over the weekend to check for electrical problems/current leak, etc.

Anyone else hate cars as much as I do? Fcuk!

 

[DirtyMike]

I just did a Diag today on an Escalade for very much the same symtoms, third battery in a month, any time it sat for more than three days the battery was totaly dead, three other shops kept telling the customer that everything was ok.... Well I check it out, first thing I do is an Amp draw test. find 1.7 amp draw with everything off.... start pulling fuses till I see the draw go away, find it in the blower motor circuit. Funny it would be there because its a pretty simple circuit, find it is using a module system for the blower speeds, using a pulse instead of actual resistors for the speeds, and find a small burn spot in it.... 285 dollars later.... .015 amp draw with eerything off....... All is good.

Ill bet thats going to be along the lines of what will be found, some stupid little short pulling a bit of power.

You have kids by chance? If so, maybe check to see if any coins have been stuck in places they shouldnt be... seen that one more than a few times.

 

[Sonic Reducer]

Appreciate the feedback all - I'm unfortunately not equipped to do the tests you describe - no garage & no real tools anymore, so I'll have to take it to the shop. Hopefully the shop gets this sorted - thanks!

If I had to guess at this point, it would probably be a current leak somewhere or bad connections.

Will let you know how it goes.

"if you find yourself in need of a tool and instead pay someone else who has that tool, you have neither the tool nor your money, or something like that" henry ford

 

[5150dhbiker]

So I took it to the shop (new in town, never been to this shop, but got a recommendation), explained it the guy the situation. He calls me back a couple hours later & says the alternator is fine & the battery is fine.

Gah!

I explain to him again... he does understand and is going to keep it over the weekend to check for electrical problems/current leak, etc.

Anyone else hate cars as much as I do? Fcuk!

I love cars! Work on them 5 days a week and can't complain Then again, I just do stereo work, haha.
Man...I really should have taken my ASE test a few years ago (finished all the courses, just not the test), would be making way more then I am now :~

 

[DirtyMike]

I love cars! Work on them 5 days a week and can't complain Then again, I just do stereo work, haha.
Man...I really should have taken my ASE test a few years ago (finished all the courses, just not the test), would be making way more then I am now :~

Get signed up, they are coming up fast, Speaking of which, I have to renew four this round myself.

 

[5150dhbiker]

Get signed up, they are coming up fast, Speaking of which, I have to renew four this round myself.

I might just do that!

 

[Lelandjt]

I had the same symptoms and figured it was the alternator. Turned out it was the belt tensioner that was dying. It wasn't putting enough tension on the belt to prevent it from slipping so the alternator wasn't being spun enough.

 

[dump]

Well, after the weekend, he calls me up & says the car starts fine, nothing appears to be wrong. We discussed a bit more and he said he would do another AVR test.

Called me back 2 hours later & said the alternator is bad. After leaving it on the AVR machine for 30-45 minutes, the voltage dropped to 12.8V... suggesting a bad alternator.

Alternator + battery recharge + oil change + labor + tax (quebec) = $740

Happy it's working again (at least until the battery dies again ), but still hate the facking thing