[Al-F]

I'm on the fence about carbon. Not sure if I'm ready to cross into that realm yet or just keep riding Aluminum. I have a GF Hi-Fi Deluxe 26 in trail bike and considering a 29 inch carbon hardtail to add to the fleet But I'm not entirely sold on carbon yet.

So my question is; what are most current Carbon XC Frames made from? Durable Carbon or non durable.

It seems the idea of carbon in XC is to keep the gram count down. However, The frame needs to be strong enough to handle off road conditions. The problem I hear with durabe carbon is the weight factor, ie its heavy. That said, do they use durable or non durable carbon to make frames

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[w00dy]

I'm on the fence about carbon. Not sure if I'm ready to cross into that realm yet or just keep riding Aluminum. I have a GF Hi-Fi Deluxe 26 in trail bike and considering a 29 inch carbon hardtail to add to the fleet But I'm not entirely sold on carbon yet.

So my question is; what are most current Carbon XC Frames made from? Durable Carbon or non durable.

It seems the idea of carbon in XC is to keep the gram count down. However, The frame needs to be strong enough to handle off road conditions. The problem I hear with durabe carbon is the weight factor, ie its heavy. That said, do they use durable or non durable carbon to make frames

Thanks in advance for any help.

I don't know what you've been reading, but there aren't two different materials named durable and non-durable. Carbon fiber is what it is. It can be laid up using a plethora of techniques, weave styles and epoxy combinations, but the material itself is the same.
Any frame from a major manufacturer will need to pass the same strength tests as the metal frames. Buy away.

 

[sanjuro]

You have to understand that no matter what the intended purpose of your bike, it has to be able to handle more than just smooth trails.

No reputable manufacturer wants to deal with angry customers whose superlight frames have snapped.

Unless you plan on dirt jumping or you weigh 280lbs, a carbon frame from Specialized to Ibis will be plenty stiff and strong.

 

[mdc]

Lopes on his flimsy carbon Ibis Mojo:

Brian Lopes railing it down A-line at Whistler... on Vimeo

looks ok to me

 

[Al-F]

It is the process or the amount of materials that make the difference in weight. and I do know what carbon wrap is but thanks your response is pretty decent

No, not calling carbon too flimsy to ride hard but I appreciate the head cam video of Lopes. As a BMX racer I'm not unfamiliar with carbon being used for jumping, some of the best racing forks are carbon, but they do break on occasion and when they do its an epic fail...FMF did a couple of carbon BMX frames but they didn't make the bike any lighter...FMF doesn't do BMX anymore. Also, I fnd that Carbon handles jumps etc just fine but crashes with direct hits from hard sharp objects, not so good at times.

All I'm trying to figure out is how the frame is constructed for XC duty. I'd like to know what I'm riding is all. Thanks for the help anyway gents,

 

[rockofullr]

It is the process or the amount of materials that make the difference in weight. and I do know what carbon wrap is but thanks your response is pretty decent

If you wanna know more about how carbon bikes are constructed spend some time on Google and YouTube. I know there are some vids of carbon bike fabrication out there, but I'm not gonna find them for you. Most companies are pretty secretive about the details of there fabrication so don't expect to find much detail.

You sound like you are from a BMX background, if you are used to abusing your bikes carbon may not be for you. If you are a smooth rider and don't crash much look into it. Just understand that light bikes always come at the cost of reduced durability.

 

[Al-F]

Thanks, I've been looking on google, bing and haven't really found what I was looking for.

Yeah, I understand the trade secrets attitude. That's why I was hoping someone else may have heard something. Its not that big of a deal really...Like I said, I like to know what I'm riding. Aluminum is explained in great detail and so is steel/chromoly. Ti even gets some explanation but a little rubbery for my taste, so I haven't looked too deep into that one.

I'm a little old now so I'm not too abusive haha. actually for MTB XC I'm pretty decent to my rides...not handling them with kids gloves but not thrashing to no end either.

 

[sanjuro]

You have to flip it around as well:

I'm not a materials engineer. I am a bike mechanic and sales manager. My experience with carbon bikes and installing parts.

You can find lots of explanations about how frames are made, but even to me, it has almost no value. I want to know how it rides and how easily I can service it.

I'm not sure what you're fishing for. There are no frame standards like engine displacement for performance.

P.S. If you are wondering if you can buy some no-name frame from Ebay, then the answer is "Good luck with yourself.".

 

[Al-F]

You have to flip it around as well:

I'm not a materials engineer. I am a bike mechanic and sales manager. My experience with carbon bikes and installing parts.

You can find lots of explanations about how frames are made, but even to me, it has almost no value. I want to know how it rides and how easily I can service it.

I'm not sure what you're fishing for. There are no frame standards like engine displacement for performance.

P.S. If you are wondering if you can buy some no-name frame from Ebay, then the answer is "Good luck with yourself.".

No not fishing...just what it says, whats the diff in a MTB and Roadbike as carbon standards go?

As for no name Ebay brands, no thanks! Don't get me wrong, I'm open to giving small boutique companies a try...I've seen some pretty trick stuff come from the little guys over the years. However, I'd like to here a little more about them as a bike co, not just their Ebay store.

 

[sanjuro]

Well, almost all the high end road bikes are carbon, particularly race bikes.

I don't believe aluminum was ever able to reach a weight-to-strength and weight-to-stiffness ratio that was acceptable for racing.

Steel failed this test many years, and Ti is still the best material for the average rider who should be looking for longevity and ride quality (if price is no object).

Carbon's ride is considered to be decently shock absorbing, although not as good as steel or ti.

As for mountain bikes, it is a slower path because of riders' demand for absolute reliability. There is a perception that carbon could snap or puncture from rocks, although there are many carbon all-mountain bikes, and they hold up fine.

Keep in mind that despite the many brands, there are only two or three carbon manufacturers for all the companies. Giant builds many of the brands, and they are considered to be the highest quality.

The boutique brands like Santa Cruz and Ibis, both owned by the same parent company, also have extremely high standards.

 

[Al-F]

Yeah that's how I understand it on road bikes. although there are still a few diehard steel riders out tere...very scant few but they are there.

Litespeed Ti bikes...what can I say? Awesome!

My biggest concer with carbon is not so much the punishment, but that one instant I hit a sharp rock. However I'm getting over that...still not ready to brave carbon bars, and my ride style probably wouldn't mesh with them, and then there's carbon seatposts...I'll use a Thomson..."Homey don't sit on broken sticks"!

Otherwise, I ride my 2008 GF Hi-Fi Deluxe...I waited until I turned 40 to but a full suspension. I love this bike and everything about it, I'm a trail rider, I like picking throug tech stuff and bombing for speed...However, I would to try my hand at XC racing and a carbon hardtail like a Specialized StumpJumper would fit the bill....

But I'm itching to build, I don't mind taking my time to get the parts I really want and maybe build something that is Unique/rare. Not at the purchase stage yet just researching.

Meanwhile preloading dual suspensin in a dog leg or a 90 degree turn and exploding out of it is a blast until I get this hardtail XC hill climbing beast thing figured out.

 

[sanjuro]

I use carbon bars. No biggie.

 

[Al-F]

Cool, babysteps...
Thanks for the answers! I'm not sure if it satisfies the original question but it answered a few others that were on my mind.

 

[sanjuro]

Try building your own carbon bike: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm

 

[MtnbikeMike]

I would classify the build quality of carbon MTBs durable. Looking at carbon road bikes, those things will break in many cases when crashed (I see it nearly every weekend). On the flip side, I own a Fuji carbon hardtail, which has put through its paces and has cartwheeled a few times and it keeps on ticking. So in regards to your original question, yes, you could refer to them as being made of "durable carbon."

 

[Al-F]

Try building your own carbon bike: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm

That's cool, Thanks! It helps understand to some degree what I'll be riding. I don't think I'll be making a carbon frame anytime soon, I'll rephrase and say I wish to "assemble" a carbon hardtail. But that is awesome!

 

[zebrahum]

The road/mtb differences can usually be summed up with a heavier weave of carbon or more plys of carbon. Mountain bikes are of course made for the abuse of riding off road, so they are reliable. Yes, you can puncture a carbon frame, though it is pretty rare. In the past 9 years or so, I've only seen it once where I am. And you can actually "boot" patch carbon to recover some of the strength loss of a puncture. To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about it, I just know it's possible.

Look around, there's no shortage of carbon across the cycling industry, don't let the frame material stop you from getting a bike you might really enjoy. I let price do that!

 

[rockofullr]

Give us an example of what bikes you are looking at and someone around here is sure to have some input.

 

[Lelandjt]

Caron bars, seatposts, and frames are no less durable (even talking about crash impacts) than lightweight alloy versions. Drop a light alloy frame on a rock and you'll get a dent that weakens it as much as the scratch a carbon frame gets. There are several "no name" Taiwanese carbon frames on Ebay that are sold direct from the factories that build frames for name brand companies. They're just as good. Search the weight weenies forum on MTBR.com for lots of info on these.
With carbon bars and posts stick to Easton. Their stuff is proven durable.