[Sandwich]

I run 8 speed cassettes/shifting/chain. Previously, I dug a pretty minty XTR titanium 11-30 cassette out of my box and ran with it for a season. It was great but I found myself looking for tighter spacing as i was only using the top few gears. I'm thinking of going with a smaller chainring and grabbing a smaller cassette in the rear to maximize the amount of gears I have in my pedaling range.

What's a good place to start? I don't want to go crazy tight like a 12-21, so I was originally thinking of 12-26. What about a 12-23? Found a good deal on one on bebay....will that be a good compromise of range and ratio?

 

[EVIL JN]

I have been happy with a 7spd 12-23T with 2T jumps between all but the last two cogs with a 36 and 38T chainring. Easy enough to get around on the flat between trails but still a decent top speed when going down. For me a 2T jump feels perfect since i dont have to shift as many gears as i would have to with a 9spd to get the same cadence.

 

[Sghost]

12-23 will work fine if your going with a smaller chainring

 

[Sandwich]

I have a 36t front and 11-30 rear. I'm not Tony Hawk's Pro Racer 2.0 and my PJs never match, so I'm pretty slow. My last race I found that I could have used more gears in betwixt, but wasn't getting down into the 11...I was considering a 35t and 12-23, but maybe I should go 34 for now.

 

[HAB]

I run a 37t ring with an 11-25 cassette. Works great for me.

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah but you're herc and my namby pamby spaghetti legs can't keep up.

 

[HAB]

If you're using all your high gears except the 11 on your current cassette I'd do something like a 12-25 and leave the chainring alone.

 

[Sandwich]

I guess I misspoke....I'm using like the 30-15, skipping anything below it. Which is why I want a smaller chainring to go with the smaller cassette. If I find that I go fast, I can bump up the chainring.

 

[HAB]

Ooooohhhhhh


OK then. To get a similar range with tighter spacing I'd do a 32t ring with a 12-26 or 12-27. The 32-12 is a hair higher than the 36-15 you're currently using as your high gear, and the 32-26 is a hair higher than your 36-30, whereas the 32-27 is a hair lower. Your call if you really need the lowest gear there or not.

 

[Sghost]

But if your new gears make you faster than you'll need more!

Just go for a 34

 

[miuan]

2t diff between 12 and 14 is not the same 2t diff as 24 and 26. After you choose your range, your quest is to build your gears using as few cogs as you can get away with comfortably. I vary between 5 and 6, but that's only 11-23 range.
Further on, a small chainring and small cogs will sure deliver the gearing you need, but you will find yourself on the 2-3 smallest cogs more often than you'd like. This may or may not be an issue for the chainline, but more importantly, a small cog will clogg with mud much faster than a big one, so be cautious.

 

[no skid marks]

I'm fairly sure the available Sram cassettes(8s)are lighter than shimano.
You can buy two different spederless ones, remove the three bolts, and make your own custom gearing.
That's pretty slow gearing you're using. I'm not much of a pedaler eather, but I like the feel of the chain tension/resistance of a higher gear.

 

[etabs]

i ran a 36 up front with a 11-21 cassette last year and it was perfect for me. sometimes i even wished i had a 38 up front

 

[DirtyMike]

I ran a 36t up front with a 12/26 for years..... I would probably go with a 12/27 in the back, and call it good.... if that isnt good enough.... grab an e13 35t for the front...... So glad E13 realized that was a good idea to offer ideas like that... 35's 37's 39's.... Really nice

 

[BmxConvert]

I've been happiest running a 36t front and grabbing 2 Ultegra cassettes to make a 11-27. I never really go any lower than the lowest 5 gears, but I want to be able to have the 36-11 if I REALLY need it(although I never have).

I find spinning a lighter gear works better for me. Mashing a super hard gear wears me out too quick.

I might try a 34/11-23 sometime just for the hell of it.

 

[Gary]

I've always found road cassettes a complete PITA for DH as you nearly always have to shift more than one gear at a time to get a noticable juimp in gear ratio. if I were you I'd just run another 11-30 but ditch the 2 largest (unused) sprockets, space it out on the freehub and limit the mech.. 6 is more than enough gears for a DH bike. I find a 36T ring with a 11-21/23 cassette is perfect for where I ride.

 

[JRogers]

As a side question- anyone know where to get a good quality 8 speed cassette or is ebay pretty much it? I use 8 speed on my XC bike and don't want to use a cheap one without a spider, which would cut into the alloy freehub body I have. I spend a lot of time in one gear on extended climbs and wore out an old 11-30 XTR, bought a too much used old M900 for it to work smoothly and now am on the last one in the toolbox.

 

[miuan]

I've been using 950 and 970 cassettes for their ease of disassembly, respacing for 8sp or whatever. This cassette is light and bloody cheap:
http://cnc-bike.de/product_info.php?products_id=7253&osCsid=857bbfecccf62346b09600c0690cdfb0

 

[Sandwich]

As a side question- anyone know where to get a good quality 8 speed cassette or is ebay pretty much it? I use 8 speed on my XC bike and don't want to use a cheap one without a spider, which would cut into the alloy freehub body I have. I spend a lot of time in one gear on extended climbs and wore out an old 11-30 XTR, bought a too much used old M900 for it to work smoothly and now am on the last one in the toolbox.

I just bought an SRP 8 speed cassette of ebay. Once it comes in and gets an inspection, I may be selling my XTR ti cassette (11-30 8speed) if you're interested. I don't know offhand how worn it is, but I'm not selling it because it's worn, just want tighter spacing.

Went with 11-23, we'll see how it goes. Should shave 80 more grams off the rear wheel...not bad!

 

[Jim Mac]

11-23 seems good. FWIW, I run a 38 in the front and SRAM 'dh' cassette 12-27 (or is it 11-26?). Anyway, never use the low gear, maybe should have gone your option.

 

[Sandwich]

11-23 seems good. FWIW, I run a 38 in the front and SRAM 'dh' cassette 12-27 (or is it 11-26?). Anyway, never use the low gear, maybe should have gone your option.

I figure I'll go with either the 36t front or maybe pick up a 34, then see how it goes. To be honest, I can't really remember what gears i spend most of my time in, but I know I was not typically using the full range, so whether it's the highs or lows, I'll find out pretty quick. My 30t is nice for climbing, but that's about it. I'd rather push up the (very few) hills and use those gears down low. I guess my ideal might be like an 11-21+30t, just to have one granny gear for getting back up.

I don't really see the point of locking out gears. I could, but then I'm not gaining anything spacing wise, but I am losing gears...I'd rather have a few options in between. Plus, using the wild powers of 8 speed, my drivetrain (saint der and XTR shifter) usually shifts when I want it to....so dumping gears isn't a big deal.

 

[Gary]

I don't really see the point of locking out gears.

other than the simplicity and weight savings one other advantage removing a couple of the larger sprockets, spacing out your cassette and setting the limits on the mech to suit is that when you smack the mech/hanger during a run it'd need to be bent quite a bit more for the cage to reach the spokes and take out your rear wheel. and running a smaller range (whether it be 6, 7 ,8, 9 or 10 speed) allows you to run a proper short cage mech with reduced chain slap in the smaller sprockets.

 

[IH8Rice]

i went from a 11-34 to a 12-26 PG970 w/ a 34t ring in the front.
i saved a bunch of weight and the range is still pretty good

 

[no skid marks]

I guess my ideal might be like an 11-21+30t, just to have one granny gear for getting back up.

You won't be able to shift that big a jump, maybe off the bike, but I doubt that also. I think 6 tooth jump is as big as you can do and still have it shift relatively easily.

 

[Sandwich]

ah I thought they had "megarange" or whatever in the cheapos....just need one bailout gear for short top of the hill climbs, then 7 speeds for down... oh well.

maybe i'll order up a derple 34t up front. I really wanted an odd number of teeth for some reason....can't remember why. I use a saint derailleur so the possibility of it bending in is pretty reduced. I only run outlaws too, so blowing up a wheel would be an excuse to buy new ones, lol.

 

[Zark]

I'm running a 38 tooth ring with an 11-28 9spd SLX cassette. It's been treating me great. Yes I don't need the lowest gears for racing, but they are handy for certain local trails. The 11-28 spread makes for a nice difference in gearing and not so much need to double shift.

 

[DirtyMike]

I've always found road cassettes a complete PITA for DH as you nearly always have to shift more than one gear at a time to get a noticable juimp in gear ratio. if I were you I'd just run another 11-30 but ditch the 2 largest (unused) sprockets, space it out on the freehub and limit the mech.. 6 is more than enough gears for a DH bike. I find a 36T ring with a 11-21/23 cassette is perfect for where I ride.

This post confuses me a bit.... you dnt see the point in a road cassette for DH, and that the difference between the gears are too close to notice a shift and you are hitting more than one at a time to see that difference......... Yet you list you are running something in the range of 11-21/23?????

Thats the gearing we look for in a road cassette for DH.....

The idea of the clsoe range cassette comes from racing, Yeah you find yourself shifting acouple gears at a time for a burst of power, or a sudden drop were you are accelerating ALOT quickly......

But what about races like Fontana were we have a wonderfull wall sprint..... Those subtle changes can and doo make all the difference in a win or a loss...... One click may not be a noticable change, but it may be the difference in your stamina level as to if you can still push or not...................

 

[Gary]

This post confuses me a bit.... you dnt see the point in a road cassette for DH, and that the difference between the gears are too close to notice a shift and you are hitting more than one at a time to see that difference......... Yet you list you are running something in the range of 11-21/23?????

Thats the gearing we look for in a road cassette for DH.....

The idea of the clsoe range cassette comes from racing, Yeah you find yourself shifting acouple gears at a time for a burst of power, or a sudden drop were you are accelerating ALOT quickly......

But what about races like Fontana were we have a wonderfull wall sprint..... Those subtle changes can and doo make all the difference in a win or a loss...... One click may not be a noticable change, but it may be the difference in your stamina level as to if you can still push or not...................

what don't you get?

I only want the gears I actually use and am obviously lucky enough to be able to pedal at more than one cadence. pointless double shifting sucks IMO!

with a 6speed 11-21 cassette say.. 11 12 14 16 18 21 sprockets and a 36T ring I won't even need the 21T sprocket in the start hut but I might need it if I stalled out at the bottom of a slight rise in the track. 18T is pretty spinny even on the flat and the rest of the range is fairly evenly spaced with decent noticable change in ratio with only the two highest gears being closer for those "fontana wall sprints" what ever that is but I'd doubt it's any worse than the horrible pedal fest of fort william motorway over here.

FWIW because of stupid SRAM rear mech limits I actually run 7speed (9 speed spaced) but I certainly don't need 7 gears.

oh.. and I personally don't think your win or lose theory holds up, if you lose because of lack of stamina you prob weren't fit enough in the first place. I could argue it's just as easy to blame time lost from waiting that extra fraction of a second for your chain to shift two sprockets instead of one but I won't.

 

[no skid marks]

ah I thought they had "megarange" or whatever in the cheapos....just need one bailout gear for short top of the hill climbs, then 7 speeds for down... oh well.

maybe i'll order up a derple 34t up front. I really wanted an odd number of teeth for some reason....can't remember why. I use a saint derailleur so the possibility of it bending in is pretty reduced. I only run outlaws too, so blowing up a wheel would be an excuse to buy new ones, lol.

You can do as I suggested and buy two different geared cheap cassettes, pull them apart and make a custom one with th big bail out gear you want, and another sacraficial gear to support it(enable you to change to it).
The bennefit of road gearing are that the shifts are easier with smaller jumps, this is more noticable with 8 gears as the jumps are usually a touch bigger. Again, a huge bennefit of making custom cassettes. You can use the spare bits one for different tracks, or to replace worn favourite gears as they wear.
Since your starting with a new cassette, I'll take this off topic briefly, and recomend buying two chains, with joiner links, and swaping them often. Then they'll wear the cassette out slower, and stretch with it's wear.
Having a smaller front chainring, will make you use the smaller rear cogs, that'll wear quicker, this is something else to consider, but might not be achievable if you need two bail out gears.

 

[DirtyMike]

what don't you get?

What I didnt get was saying that you dont understand road cassettes for DH... yet an 11/23 or an 11/21 IS a road cassette

I only want the gears I actually use and am obviously lucky enough to be able to pedal at more than one cadence. pointless double shifting sucks IMO!

Fully understand that..... makes alot of sense

with a 6speed 11-21 cassette say.. 11 12 14 16 18 21 sprockets and a 36T ring I won't even need the 21T sprocket in the start hut but I might need it if I stalled out at the bottom of a slight rise in the track. 18T is pretty spinny even on the flat and the rest of the range is fairly evenly spaced with decent noticable change in ratio with only the two highest gears being closer for those "fontana wall sprints" what ever that is but I'd doubt it's any worse than the horrible pedal fest of fort william motorway over here.

FWIW because of stupid SRAM rear mech limits I actually run 7speed (9 speed spaced) but I certainly don't need 7 gears.

oh.. and I personally don't think your win or lose theory holds up, if you lose because of lack of stamina you prob weren't fit enough in the first place. I could argue it's just as easy to blame time lost from waiting that extra fraction of a second for your chain to shift two sprockets instead of one but I won't.

Its not a time your saving over the shift.... its that you have more in between, and maybe you can go ahead and spin better in the in between gear........ as in with the big jump between gears one is just a little too hi of a gear to keep pushing at a good speed, and the next down shift becomes a spinny toppe dout on speed gear.... were as the in between would allow for something your stamina/str level can push and still gain speed.

My post wasnt an attack in any way...... Was jsut taht the numbers you listed for the cassette you like contradicted that you didnt understand road cassettes for DH.... When the numbers you listed are road cassette numbers

I agree fully, useless gears are retarded. For someone like myself when I race on my bike, I end up with gears I never use...... but my race bike is my ride bike....... so it has to fill both sides of the equation.....

 

[Gary]

the numbers you listed are road cassette numbers

not really, a road 9 speed 11-21 would have 11,12,13,15,15,16,17,19,21 which like I said is a PITA for me on a DH bike because of such small jumps the whole way through the range.
Even back in the late 70s early 80s when a top end roadbike was 6speed the cassette (freewheel) would have been as closely spaced but with less range making chainring choice more critical.

Its not a time your saving over the shift.... its that you have more in between, and maybe you can go ahead and spin better in the in between gear........ as in with the big jump between gears one is just a little too hi of a gear to keep pushing at a good speed, and the next down shift becomes a spinny toppe dout on speed gear.... were as the in between would allow for something your stamina/str level can push and still gain speed.

Have you ever looked into how little difference there is between gears on a close ratio road cassette paired with a typical 36T DH ring? and how much faster or slower your cadence needs adjusted by to achieve various speeds compared to changing gear to achieve the same speed? I already knew what worked for me from trial and error but I'm enough of a geek that I have looked into that too, and found a 1T sprocket jump in the middle of the cassette is really not a very big difference from changing cadence by a few rpm to achieve the same speed. Don't quote me on this but IIRC a 1T change only equals around 1-1.5 mph gain/loss at the same rpm but simply pedalling around 10rpm faster/slower would achieve around the same change in speed. the latter feels better to me than constantly changing gear while riding DH but i'm not exactly a finely tuned athlete winning or losing by hundredths of a second every weekend.

 

[w00dy]

If you want to do a custom cassette I can halp. Been doing that since I bought the 6 speed profile hub in 2003.

 

[DirtyMike]

not really, a road 9 speed 11-21 would have 11,12,13,15,15,16,17,19,21 which like I said is a PITA for me on a DH bike because of such small jumps the whole way through the range.
Even back in the late 70s early 80s when a top end roadbike was 6speed the cassette (freewheel) would have been as closely spaced but with less range making chainring choice more critical.

Have you ever looked into how little difference there is between gears on a close ratio road cassette paired with a typical 36T DH ring? and how much faster or slower your cadence needs adjusted by to achieve various speeds compared to changing gear to achieve the same speed? I already knew what worked for me from trial and error but I'm enough of a geek that I have looked into that too, and found a 1T sprocket jump in the middle of the cassette is really not a very big difference from changing cadence by a few rpm to achieve the same speed. Don't quote me on this but IIRC a 1T change only equals around 1-1.5 mph gain/loss at the same rpm but simply pedalling around 10rpm faster/slower would achieve around the same change in speed. the latter feels better to me than constantly changing gear while riding DH but i'm not exactly a finely tuned athlete winning or losing by hundredths of a second every weekend.

I get what your saying, nowadays we dont call them road casettes anymore, we just call them close ratio cassette....... I also absolutly see why with DH alot of people would love to be back on an older 6 speed cassette with six speed spacing etc etc etc......... Only part that doesnt make sense in peoples arguements is that the chains are stronger, when in fact the chain itself is just thicker... but thats another arguement for another thread.... It does make perfect sense to only have the gears you run vs a bunch of extras.....


My point on the close ration taht makes it nice for racing though, isnt for the guy with one cadence, its for the guy who the 1 tooth difference in teh back when making that single shift, gives him just enough torque to be able to raise his cadence without sacrificing too much top speed, then make the jump to the next gear and do it all over again. There are alot out there that the little in between during the sprints really can be all the difference in the world, more than hundreths of a second.... Yes I have looked into it, done a bit of testing myself with some friends with changing cassettes, and techniques to match the gearing.... and we did find it to be something that if used properly can be a substantial difference in overall acceleration and holding of speed during a sprint. I know talking about the Fontana wall again, but going back and forth there for awhile timing each pther, finding you can make a six second difference in the sprint itself.




Again dont get me wrong, I think gear ration choices are more importantly decided on what course you on over anything else..... Fontana its nice to have alot of in between to really fine tune your power output to speed on the ground being there are so many differences on the course........ Were on the other side your on a real mountain with proper lifts and proper eight minute all substantial downhill with substantial grades...... I would want to dump as much ratio as possible as fast as possible too.....

 

[BmxConvert]

If you want to do a custom cassette I can halp. Been doing that since I bought the 6 speed profile hub in 2003.

I'm really interested in going that route with my new DH bike and I like the idea of having the cluster not spaced so far from the spokes(looks cleaner). It's too bad they only make those hubs in 135.

 

[Gary]

Email hope about interest in a 150mm SS pro II, you won't be the first

 

[w00dy]

I'm really interested in going that route with my new DH bike and I like the idea of having the cluster not spaced so far from the spokes(looks cleaner). It's too bad they only make those hubs in 135.

The biggest reason I went with the 6 speed hub was the dishless wheel it builds. Shorter cassette=wider, symmetric flange spacing. 150mm hubs already have this going for them. Also, if you're assembling your own cassette you can put it anywhere on the freehub body.

 

[Gary]

The biggest reason I went with the 6 speed hub was the dishless wheel it builds. Shorter cassette=wider, symmetric flange spacing. 150mm hubs already have this going for them.

Totally agree, DH bikes would only need 135mm hubs (6speed) if manufacturers ever realise this. Hope FAILed massively with on this point with their ProIIs.

Also, if you're assembling your own cassette you can put it anywhere on the freehub body.

But not if you want an 11T smallest sprocket.

 

[w00dy]

But not if you want an 11T smallest sprocket.

Touche'.