[Transcend]

Hey after zedro quoted that I had to go back and look.

You really did say that.

Your toolbox sux.

So something like a cassette tool, chain whip, crank puller etc is standard but NOT something that helps you work on brake rotors?

Your toolbox sux.

I'll send you a torx wrench if you want. One comes with every set of brakes on the planet when you buy them.

Not saying I don't have one, in fact, I have a super nice ratcheting one. I am just saying Torx in general isn't a super popular tool (compared to say - alen wrenches). If you have a bike, chances are you have a cassette tool though.

I haven't gone to centrelock for a simple reason - the hubs and the $ they cost to convert.

I don't dig the idea of having to use their hubs and pay a bucket of money for ones that are not boat anchors. I am not even sure they make a 150mm x12, and they definately don't make a 137x12 for a floater such as the Hadley I used last year.

 

[bjanga]

my Topeak Hummer has a T25 bit, I'm not sure if they have a casette tool in their pocket tool model line.....

Good point. If you bend a 6-bolt rotor on the trail, you might be able to remove it, and not the caliper.

 

[zedro]

I haven't gone to centrelock for a simple reason - the hubs and the $ they cost to convert.

I don't dig the idea of having to use their hubs and pay a bucket of money for ones that are not boat anchors. I am not even sure they make a 150mm x12, and they definately don't make a 137x12 for a floater such as the Hadley I used last year.

especially when it's hard to upgrade alot at the same time. Buying a new set of brakes hurts enough without the burden of a new wheelset, especially if you want to be able to swap with other bikes. I like the idea too, but...

 

[Radarr]

Get a t-25 head, stick it in an extension, and throw it in your cordless drill. That's how I've removed/installed rotors for a long time now. When you reinstall rotors, just set the clutch at about half way, and you never over-tighten the bolts. Best part: it takes about 2 minutes. Granted, I don't know anything about being in a hurry to catch a flight.

Then again, I really don't care. Would either system stop me if I grabbed a handfull of brake? Yes. Does it offend me if someone is using a different system than I am? No. 6-bolt isn't going anywhere, and it sounds like center-lock isn't either. I'm just happy I have a choice.

 

[Mr. Furious]

I've got Saint Hubs/Saint Centerlock rotors..
My beef... god damned bike shops don't carry the centerlock tool.
"Oh.. well we could order one for you.. why don't you just bring your bike in and we'll tighten it for you"

... because you aren't local, you open too late and close too early...

 

[sanjuro]

I've got Saint Hubs/Saint Centerlock rotors..
My beef... god damned bike shops don't carry the centerlock tool.
"Oh.. well we could order one for you.. why don't you just bring your bike in and we'll tighten it for you"

... because you aren't local, you open too late and close too early...

Uh, the centerlock tool is a cassette remover...

 

[sanjuro]

OK, get whatever *uck you want. Want the easiest to use: get Centerlock. Want cheapest, get six bolt!

Don't have a T-25 or a cassette remover? Don't ride!

 

[Mr. Furious]

Uh, the centerlock tool is a cassette remover...

The Saint Centerlock tool is an oversized cassette remover.

 

[dante]

centerlock prevents you from putting the rotor on backwards when you've had one too many Newcastle's while swapping wheels. or so I've heard... ink:

 

[OGRipper]

especially when it's hard to upgrade alot at the same time. Buying a new set of brakes hurts enough without the burden of a new wheelset, especially if you want to be able to swap with other bikes. I like the idea too, but...

The brakes don't need to match the wheels, you can use 6-bolt rotors with saint, or center lock with avid, etc. Of course shimano makes it more expensive by bundling the components together, but still. Anyway, both will probably be around for a while...

 

[ska todd]

that all may be true, but you guys are being race-centric again, not everyone has those needs.

bah...silence zedro! If you want to talk freeriding there is a forum for it. You can take the boy out of races but you can't take the racer out of the boy!

Well I have never been riding and then had to catch a flight. But, even at my young age I know how to look at a clock and say to myself "hey, I need to get going".

Until you have grown up, moved away from the confines of the happy Valley, and discovered that life (and especially bikes for that matter) is best to be lived unscripted, then I urge you to shut yer yapper. As the saying goes, "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry." Honestly, I'd rather get "one more run" in with friends I see but once or twice a year or go out drinking with those same friends and wake up late with a wicked hangover and have to rush and maybe miss a plane then plan my life down to a nano-second.

And I have one of those fancy sets of Torx keys that are all attached in one little brick. It's lime green so I don't lose it because I misplace everything. I know things don't always go by the plan. But every shop at every mountain will have a T25 key and so will other riders. I am not spouting off, I am speeking from experience. The main point is that 6bolt is the standard, It works fine, at this point centerlock really isn't as convient as 6bolt Torx.

The "experience" you speak of is limited to working in a college town bike shop on basically new bikes and repairs for what, a year? 2 yrs? There are people here who've been racing & wrenching on bikes since before you were on training wheels.

6-bolt is no more of a "standard" than 1 1/8", or Isis, or IS brake mounts. Bikes, especially downhill bikes, are a constantly evolving species. We change things to make them work better; to win races, to have better durability. Without this evolution we'd all still be on lugged steel, fully rigid bikes w/ bull moose bars, threaded steerers, freewheels, and Mafac style cantis while wearing pink, lime green, and leopard pattern skin tight spandex.

I'm not saying 6-bolt is bad, just that there is another option out there that trumps it in several respects. If 6-bolt works for you, well then keep riding it, no one is holding a gun to your head and saying "Ride Centerlock or Die Bitch!". 6-bolt has served me just fine since spring '98 when I got my first set of Hayes brakes. Several of my wheelsets still have 6-bolt hubs on them and I'm guessing they will until I retire them. However, I recently discovered that centerlock works for me. It's quicker, easier, lighter, and cleaner looking.

-ska todd

 

[dropmachine]

Torx blows. I have found them easy to strip out, especially if you aren't the most delicate of mechanic types.


My solution was simple. I went to Home Hardware, and picked up bolts that have deeper heads then standard bolts, and have allen heads on them. They aren't light, but gimme a break, if your bike is heavy its not the rotor bolts. Solved my problem nicely.

I find it kind of funny that some speak about the quickness of centerlock. If I crash in the middle of the trail and smoke a rotor, I can use my crankbros tool to remove said rotor on the spot. Can you do that with centerlock?

I can definately see the benefits of the system, as i used to run splined Hope rotors. The Centerlock stuff seems really smart for sure. But until more companies tsart offering it as an option, i just can't see me personally swapping over.

 

[ska todd]

I find it kind of funny that some speak about the quickness of centerlock. If I crash in the middle of the trail and smoke a rotor, I can use my crankbros tool to remove said rotor on the spot. Can you do that with centerlock?

You are assuming that a) I crash 2) I carry tools when i ride DH.

-ska todd

 

[dropmachine]

hahah touche.

 

[bballe336]

bah...silence zedro! If you want to talk freeriding there is a forum for it. You can take the boy out of races but you can't take the racer out of the boy!



Until you have grown up, moved away from the confines of the happy Valley, and discovered that life (and especially bikes for that matter) is best to be lived unscripted, then I urge you to shut yer yapper. As the saying goes, "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry." Honestly, I'd rather get "one more run" in with friends I see but once or twice a year or go out drinking with those same friends and wake up late with a wicked hangover and have to rush and maybe miss a plane then plan my life down to a nano-second.



The "experience" you speak of is limited to working in a college town bike shop on basically new bikes and repairs for what, a year? 2 yrs? There are people here who've been racing & wrenching on bikes since before you were on training wheels.

6-bolt is no more of a "standard" than 1 1/8", or Isis, or IS brake mounts. Bikes, especially downhill bikes, are a constantly evolving species. We change things to make them work better; to win races, to have better durability. Without this evolution we'd all still be on lugged steel, fully rigid bikes w/ bull moose bars, threaded steerers, freewheels, and Mafac style cantis while wearing pink, lime green, and leopard pattern skin tight spandex.

I'm not saying 6-bolt is bad, just that there is another option out there that trumps it in several respects. If 6-bolt works for you, well then keep riding it, no one is holding a gun to your head and saying "Ride Centerlock or Die Bitch!". 6-bolt has served me just fine since spring '98 when I got my first set of Hayes brakes. Several of my wheelsets still have 6-bolt hubs on them and I'm guessing they will until I retire them. However, I recently discovered that centerlock works for me. It's quicker, easier, lighter, and cleaner looking.

-ska todd

I am not saying that center lock doesn't work. I am saying that it isn't as convienent. I voiced my opinion and got a **** storm thrown my way. And it's not like anyone is pointing a gun to your head and saying "Ride 6-Bolt or Die Bitch!".

 

[binary visions]

I think this discussion is bizarre. I do not see how the 6-bolt standard is, in any way, superior to the Centerlock setup (except cost).

The people who are pulling for the Torx bolts seem to have the main arguement of, "it works just fine". Of course it works fine, otherwise it wouldn't be freakin' used. But why stop at "it works fine"? Centerlock works better. It's easier to mount the rotors, looks cleaner and is harder to screw up - one big thread is always easier to handle than numerous small threads/bolts.

If you don't like Shimano, fine. But claiming that Centerlock is not a superior method of mounting rotors is downright silly. If you don't want to buy new hubs with your next brake system, then don't buy them, but it doesn't mean it's not better.

As far as the stripped bolts question goes, well, the world isn't an ideal place and sh*t happens. Bolts strip, bolts freeze, the heads snap off. Just because you personally haven't stripped a Torx head doesn't mean that those who have are ham-fisted apes who don't take care of their bikes properly.

edit: OGRipper has a point about the bent rotors, which may be a valid concern. The mounting standard is still superior, though.

 

[ska todd]

I am not saying that center lock doesn't work. I am saying that it isn't as convienent. I voiced my opinion and got a **** storm thrown my way. And it's not like anyone is pointing a gun to your head and saying "Ride 6-Bolt or Die Bitch!".

Grom, what I am getting at is that from many respects it is certainly more convenient. I have explained this to you with several "real world" scenarios, of which you chose to retort with zero experience or first hand knowledge. Jungle asked people who've actually used centerlock for feedback, myself and a couple others chose to give him that feedback from personal experience. Plus, it's just fun and easy to rip your posts apart, like a sport of sorts.

-ska todd

 

[dante]

I am not saying that center lock doesn't work. I am saying that it isn't as convienent. I voiced my opinion and got a **** storm thrown my way. And it's not like anyone is pointing a gun to your head and saying "Ride 6-Bolt or Die Bitch!".

maybe you should've elaborated on that in your original post, instead of claiming that one was "worthless and a waste of time". opinions are fine if you can convey them in an intelligent manner, but the "it sucks" opinion belongs at Pinkbike.

 

[OGRipper]

My solution was simple. I went to Home Hardware, and picked up bolts that have deeper heads then standard bolts, and have allen heads on them.

I do that too, I use 4mm stainless, but it doesn't work with some forks, there is not enough clearance.

It is truly a toss-up to me. Centerlock is easier to use when you are at home or near your tool box, but it's more expensive and harder to true bent rotors. 6-bolt works fine for most people, is less expensive, and the rotors are easier to true. You don't need one or the other, regardless of your brakes. Nobody should have problems with rotors loosening up either way and you should always have the tools you need when traveling. But my multi-tools have a T25 head but not a cassette tool, and definitely not an oversized tool for Saint, so if a rotor ever came loose on the trail I would probably be better off with 6-bolt...holy crap I can't believe I am still posting...

 

[sanjuro]

The Saint Centerlock tool is an oversized cassette remover.

I stand corrected. I realize that 20mm thru-axle requires a larger rotor mount, and a larger tool.

There is a negative to Centerlock, two different types...

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

the "torx wrenches are uncommon" is a pretty lame argument, given the fact that one can change the stock torx bolts to hex head bolts at any given time....and you cant say allen wrenches arent in your toolbox

 

[meatboot]

Two questions, not invested, just curious.

1. Anyone care to weight in on the comparative weights? It seems like there's a little more material involved in the centerlock system.

2. Speaking of stripping, anyone have any issues with the lockrings? It was understanding that the XC versions used XTR-style shallow alloy lockrings, which I've seen lose threads on cassettes in the past. I imagine Saint uses steel though, hence my curiosity about the weight difference.

 

[zedro]

I do that too, I use 4mm stainless, but it doesn't work with some forks, there is not enough clearance.

bet it doesnt work with most hubs, since they use 5mm

 

[OGRipper]

bet it doesnt work with most hubs, since they use 5mm

Yeah yeah, but I use a 4mm wrench for them...dammit...

 

[klunky]

I would say that centre lock is better due to being easier and faster to install. It seems safer and less chance of error for noob wrenches making a mistake.

I dont know if I will ever use it though because lots of frames come with hubs which are not centerlock and when I upgrade/replace my hubs and there is nothing wrong with my rotors it seems silly to buy new rotors just to get center lock.

If I get a new bike with everything brand new I would do it - or if I need a hub and I have busted a rotor at the same time I would do it.

 

[ohio]

Rockshox 4-bolt standard is the way to go.