[capt.crispy]

After riding with tubelessfor over a year on my bikes my wife tried my single speed out back to back with hers and was amazed at the difference so needless to say I needed to get her some tubeless wheels.I was looking for info on the maxxis rimstrips and came across this link: http://www.nsmb.com/gear/tubeless_12_04.php.I teid it out and it works great.

The first set of wheels I tried it on was a pair of rhinolite on xt disk with maxxis minion 2.35 tires.I had no problems at all.I did use the stans sealent instead of the mold builder (liquid latex) and they have been holding air for over a week now (2 xc 16 mile xc rides and 1 weekend at a ski restort).I did find that if you don't spray the soapy water on the tires first you may not be able to get them inflated.The first time I tried I didn't use the soapy water and the air at 120 psi would not seat the bead or even inflate the tire at all but as soon as I sprayed the soapy water on it was imediate and worked like a charm.

The next wheels we did was a friend at works cross wheelset alex adventurer 700c rims and maxxis 35mm tires.These were a little harder to get the air to inflate them but thay seem to be working like a charm.After almost a week of daily commuting they are still holding up fine for him.I believe over the weekend he lost a little air but were still rideable this monring.This is probably due to the thinner sidewalls on the cross tires as aposed to the thicker sidewalls on the dh(minion) tires.

needless to say it is a whole lot cheeper than buying new tubeless wheels or even stans rimstrips.I wieghed the tubes I put in the rhinolights before I installed them and the whole tube was 84 grams,so after triming them I was probably left with about 50 or so grams.Also if you use the schrader valve tubes you can add sealent as you need.I used presta valves in the rhinolites not thinking about this and am not sure if I will be able to reuse the tubes after i add sealent but I will post later and let you know how it goes.

Bottom line if you haven't tried tubeless yet here is a great way to try it and I promise once you ride tubeless you won't be sorry, it makes an amazing difference in the ride of any bike.

 

[psychobiker]

yep ive run tubeless for about two years now on my mavics, with maxis tyres, but i dont know if id do it on cross tyres. not much room for error there

 

[vibiker]

The next wheels we did was a friend at works cross wheelset alex adventurer 700c rims and maxxis 35mm tires.

So you went ghetto rim strips with the 700s as well? Using 20" tubes?

BTW, so far, only the DH bike has tubeless, but I am totally sold. I am looking to convert everything.

 

[capt.crispy]

yeah I wasn't sure how well it would work on the 700c wheels but the 20"tubes fit and it seems to have worked like a charm.

 

[BIRDMAN111]

After riding with tubelessfor over a year on my bikes my wife tried my single speed out back to back with hers and was amazed at the difference

what exactly is the difference you feel when you ride tubless verses with tubes?

 

[mcadam]

I am the friend that Capt.Crispy helped set up tubeless, on 700 x 38 Maxxis cross tires with steel bead/Alex rims. And we sacrificed the same tube as on the 26" mtb rims, a 20 x 1 3/8. As CC said, a little more difficult to get the bead to set, but still it took only about 3 tries. And WOW what a difference. Reduced by more than 1/2 lb. per wheel, and the tubeless ride on pavement is so much better. I now inflate to about 50, instead of 60-65. Try it, you'll really feel the diff.

 

[mshred]

whats the difference between tubeless and tubed tires?

 

[vibiker]

whats the difference between tubeless and tubed tires?

Do you mean tires designed to be tubeless , as in USTs?

 

[mshred]

whatever the person who started this post meant.?

 

[capt.crispy]

Tubeless has a lot less rolling resistance and alot more grip.You can run lower presures and you will also get less flats and you can't pinchflat because there is no tube to pinch.Also there is also lew rotational wieght which means much faster acceleration.I didn't believe it till I finally went tubeless but the ride is so much better.Give it a shot,you will love it.

 

[mshred]

awesome i will

 

[urbaindk]

What do people do about changing tires for different conditions? I still run tubes for this reason. Seems like it would be a giant mess if I was always changing out tires.

 

[vibiker]

What do people do about changing tires for different conditions? I still run tubes for this reason. Seems like it would be a giant mess if I was always changing out tires.

I hear ya. That is the one downside. If the wheel sit still for a while (an hour or so), all of the Stans juice is puddled at the bottom. Short of trying to recover the solution and use it for your other tire, you could toss it out. Depending on how often you change tires, this could add up. But so do pinch-flatted tubes.

 

[Quo Fan]

I ride the same tires for all conditions, except ice, but then I have another wheelset for that. I converted my Kenda Nevegals to tubeless with Stans and I love it. The only problem I have is when I run the pressure too low, I sometimes roll the side wall and burp the tire.

 

[capt.crispy]

Yeah if you change out tires alot the price of the stans will kil you.Have a couple of sets of wheels I use for different tires.The advantages of tubeless make it worth it to buy another set of wheels.

 

[erikkellison]

Umm, if you're running less tire pressure, you're going to have more rolling resistance. The tire will deform more with less pressure as well as having less substance now that it no longer has a tube backing it, and will cause more drag. But if you run about the same pressure, the difference should be negligible, and you'll still have the weight savings of tubeless. Also they deform better for added grip on nasty unpredictable surfaces, which is an upside to performace, but a bit of a drag. For what it's worth, I run tubeless, well, was running it in the rear, converting whole new bike to totally tubeless.

 

[allsk8sno]

i think i am gonna go ghetto on my dirtbag, not sure yet since i haven't ridden it yet

 

[Mike B.]

Umm, if you're running less tire pressure, you're going to have more rolling resistance.

Uh, no you won't. The German mags love to test this stuff and in general what they've found is about a 10 watt savings by running tubeless at the lower pressures given the same tires, rims, etc. No tube rubbing against the inside of the tire, no friction, less rolling resistance.

When we started with the tubeless conversions, the pros we were working with were running 50+ psi in a 2.0 xc tire. They now all run in the 20s and they are faster than ever. Some of that can be attributed to rolling resistance and some to the increased comfort, control, and traction of the lower pressures. Downhill tubeless is a little different where typically we've found pressures to stay pretty consistent but with the added grip, etc without the tube present.

 

[Mike B.]

For those changing tires a lot, just recycle the sealant. I do it one of two ways in the shop 1) open one bead, hold the wheel at 12 o'clock with one hand and pull outward on the bead at 6 o'clock to make a funnel of sorts, then pour the sealant in to an old cup 2) use one of our injectors or a similar syringe and with one bead open, draw up the puddle of sealant and transfer it to the next tire

 

[erikkellison]

Mike,
I didn't factor in the friction between the tube and the tire, and frankly, thought increased deformation would increase drag more than tube-tire friction would increase it. Guess that just goes to show I never actually studied engineering, but just took physics and math
I at least hope you see my point about deformation as I see that factor is lost on most people. I just didn't know that the net less drage was in the favor of tubeless. Since it is, how long do you (anybody) think it will be before all mountain bike tires are tubeless, like cars? We will figure out a way to make swaps even easier, and it will be weird to see a bike with tubes someday. I want that day to be tomorrow though, I am tired of crappy tire selection and even crappier rim selection.

 

[Mike B.]

I totally understand the deformation thing and the lower pressures definitely sound counter intuitive at first. The other thing I see is that when riding at lower pressures, you don't need the big knobs that we are use to having on tires. At 45-50 psi, the knob does all the work as far as grip and traction. At the lower pressures, the tires conform to the terrain, wrapping around roots, rocks, little ledges, what have you and the knob is less important. Some people talk about the squishy feeling of lower pressures tubeless but a lot of that has to do with knob squirm, not to mention the softer compounds available today.

As for tires, I wish everything were tubeless but at present, I don't see getting away from adding sealant to the equation. Until we have airless tires (think of those webbed plastic Michelin car tires) that fit the needs of bicycles (light, fast, cheap) that is. The middle ground right now seems to be headed towards a normal tubed tire casing, stronger bead design, and a bit of sealant. Some of the companies making UST tires are not very receptive but they need to address the style of construction used because it currently limits using multiple tread compounds among other things. There are other ways to make an air tight tire but they are not necessarily easier, at least initially. There will always be tubes I'm afraid though to satisify the lower end as well to keep the people make tubes and those selling tubes happy. You can't imagine the negative feedback we get from some dealers that think sealant and tubeless in general will damage their lucrative tube sales and installation. They are dealers that aren't interested in what might be best for their customers and more interested in making a buck. I can't fault them for making money but I think it is disingenuous for them to not offer the different technology as a matter of customer service. Hopefully that doesn't start a shop rant because the vast majority do want their customers to ride more, farther, etc without the hassles of flat tires.

 

[capt.crispy]

I am glad that we haven't gone to all tubeless tires yet because all the tubeless versions are alot heavier than the tube version and i have found that for me the regular tire with sealent works just as good.

Also I wish the shop owners would realise they would sell sealent and rim strips as much as they sell tubes now.There is always something to sell.

 

[tolleyman]

That link to how to do this mod doesn't work for me. Is that thing posted somewhere else or can someone just tell me how to do it?

Thanks.

 

[vibiker]

That link to how to do this mod doesn't work for me. Is that thing posted somewhere else or can someone just tell me how to do it?

Thanks.

Try this:
http://www.nsmb.com/gear/tubeless_12_04.php

 

[capt.crispy]

Anybody try the conversion yet?

 

[erikkellison]

I was reading it, and am curious about something. It appears as though the BMX tube is pinched between the tire bead and the rim. This seems like it would invite the tire to just slip off as the bead doesn't get to fit into that notch that's made for it. Wouldn't it be better to trip the BMX tube so it laid flat on the inner surface of the rim, and mount the tire so that it is able to seat on the rim properly? I think this is how the Stan's kits work...

 

[mcadam]

erik, why not just try it. You may be very happy with the conversion. And maybe find ways to improve it, and let us know. After more than a month of daily riding I still think it's a great improvement.

 

[zmtber]

don't know if this has been stated, but have you considered stanz ghetto tubeless system? i think it might be like 50 bucks or something around there and i know its more reliable than most other forms of tubeless (besides the actual tubeless rims)

 

[Nomotivs]

The whole point of the ghetto tubeless system is it's much cheaper.
As for me trying it, I have EX823's, so I don't need to do it. I'm merely curious.

 

[erikkellison]

Sorry, that post above was me actually. I was at a friend's house...

 

[tolleyman]

Latex Mold builder, anybody find that stuff, I asked at a hardware store and they thought I was nuts!

 

[vibiker]

Latex Mold builder, anybody find that stuff, I asked at a hardware store and they thought I was nuts!

I'm not sure about the specific "Latex Mold builder", but I thought that those who were trying home brewed Stan's, were getting Latex at Hobby shops.