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Chris King Debuts New Products

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by webmonkey365, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. webmonkey365

    webmonkey365 Chimp

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    If you boycotted ceramic bearings and press-fit bottom brackets in the past because you felt those technologies were more about hype than substance, here comes Chris King with exactly those products and the promise that their stuff will hold up.
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    News: Chris King Debuts New Products
     
    #1 -   Dec 6, 2012

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  2. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Are they more than the $15 Real World Cycles outboard BB Bearing upgrade?
     
  3. ridefast

    ridefast Monkey

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    Oh...so they have ceramics engineers that are able to do things that no one else in the world can? Maybe that is why their overly complicated, finicky parts cost so much. Now I understand :rolleyes:
     
  4. dilzy

    dilzy Monkey

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    So...how about that super reliable o-ringinsteadofataperedcompressionringbecausewedidn'twanttopayforthedesignthatactuallyworked headset, how'd that turn out against CK's promise that it'll hold up..

    PS Stainless steel is a terrible material for a bearing, everyone with half a brain cell of engineering knowledge can understand why. If water's (and dirt) is getting into your bearing, being ss won't save it.

    PPS ceramic bearings are so in-appropriate in a bb, I can't even begin. Suffice to say it's all complete marketing bollocks.
     
    #4 -   Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  5. atrokz

    atrokz Turbo Monkey

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    PS: Why is 'stainless' a terrible material for a bearing? Just currious, because maybe you forgot about the dozens of high strength, carbon stainless steels capable of acheving over 60Rc in hardness and are in use in multimillion dolar submersible pumps, submarines, destroyers, motors....etc. I think you're either underestimating some of the SST alloys, or you don't know about them. Maybe working in the aerospace and naval defence manufacturing industry for the last 7 years as a Tool Maker and M.E. has shown me what actualy works?

    PPS: Why is ceramic useless? It actualy suits the aplication for road quite well. Not a huge improvement, and moot for a mtb, but for road they are definately a performance improvement, although a very diminishing return.
     
    #5 -   Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  6. NoUseForAName

    NoUseForAName Monkey

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    I think he meant for a BB - Ceramic was sold as spinning faster due to more spherical shape. Great for hubs, pointless for BBs.
     
  7. dilzy

    dilzy Monkey

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    Well for start, SS never gets as hard as a high carbon steel, in high load, low rotation situations, the carbon steel bearing will have a higher static load rating than the equivalent ss.

    I agree 100% that stainless steel bearings are great in places where they might be exposed to corrosive fluid or moisture, BUT those places are free from grit and dirt. A bottom bracket bearing is pointless in stainless steel because if water is getting in (the only reason to have ss) then dirt is as well and nothing destroys the **** out of a bearing like dirt.

    Ceramis have their place in high speed applications, machine tool spindles (if your a scrub and haven't realised that hydrostatic spindles are around the same long term cost..which I'm sure your not, since you've had 7yrs aerospace experience) etc. What they aren't good for is anywhere on a bicycle, even a road fag on his wheels, any meaningful performance improvements could be seen by running a thinner lubricant and even then, it's a poofteenth, but if people want to spend hundreds of dollars on ceramic bearings for their bike, let them I suppose.

    TLDR, using a stainless bearing is a waste of money and static load rating unless it's in a clean environment that's exposed to corrosive or electrolytic fluids.
     
    #7 -   Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  8. Lelandjt

    Lelandjt Turbo Monkey

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    Lighter, harder, rounder. So what's your beef with them, cost? Big deal, I watch people spend $100s on dinner, then I go home and eat a healthy meal for $10. People have extra income to spend on stuff and some people want to spend it to make their bike that much more trick. Others want a car that impresses the neighbor or dinner that might score them poon, whatevers-your-pleasure. I'd rather have a portion of my income go to cool bike bearings than building some fancy weapon for the government so hurrah for under-the-table income and made-in-America bike bling!
     
  9. dilzy

    dilzy Monkey

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    Spending money for a tangible benefit is one thing, spending it just so you can say I spend money on that, though entirely your decision is ****ing stupid.

    Fancy fork coatings provide a tangible benifit, carbon rims provide huge benifit, lighter cassette etc, but god damn ceramic bearings sure as **** don't.

    You don't use a more expensive product than necessary to get the job done properly just for the sake of spending money.

    You want made in America bike bling buy Enve rims and be happy you'll notice it.
     
    #9 -   Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  10. atrokz

    atrokz Turbo Monkey

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    Anywhere north of 60Rc for a ball bearing is plenty (min accepted hardness is 58Rc). There are plenty of martensitic SST's that can reach this, and thus are actualy great for the apliations. Water is thinner than dirt (duh), and a bearing can easily injest water sans dirt due to seals. I'd pick a high performance SST bearing over a standard hardened carbon steel bearing any day on certain rolling assemblies on a bike, as they will in fact last longer due to reduced pitting over time. If you wash you bike that is. Remember that XTR, Duraace, Campy, and a host of others run martensitic stainless bearings already.... because they are better....

    Ceramic is a law of diminishing returns. If I was racing road, running these would be a no brainer. They are rounder (untill we keep making steel bearings in space - true story), harder, roll faster without using degrading thin oils, and would probably equal multible seconds on century rides. So if you were a pro, why wouldn't you run them?
     
    #10 -   Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  11. dilzy

    dilzy Monkey

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    Fine dust will get in a seal that lets water in. Every bearing I've ever had die on a bike (bar one) was due to dust ingestion. The other one was almost new and collapsed due to being way too small for the loading and improper installation. Viscosity isn't the overriding factor in liquids getting into small holes, surface tension plays a much bigger part.

    Alot of SKF's bearing races are up towards 62 HRC, not much, but it helps in an oscillating load.

    Stainless steel bearings are not better at being bearings, never have, never will. They're better in niche cases and in the bicycle industry it's a marketing thing. As I said, if you get dust into your bearing or your grease is washed out with water, being stainless isn't going to save them, it's just going to cost you more to replace.

    For the ceramics, .01% of a poofteenth of cyclists need to worry about fractions of a second. If your a pro, why not, you don't pay for your gear anyway. You were saying you'd buy them and I'm fairly sure your not a pro.

    There's a bunch of other things you could buy with the money that would provide a more tangible benefit than ceramic bearings. No one has unlimited money, you start with the best $/benefit part and work your way to the worst, not the other way around.
     
    #11 -   Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012