[Viv92]

I have the newer mag Codes on my DH bike and they feel pretty good but...

I tried my mates Elixir Rs on Saturday and they felt noticeably more grabby. Not sure if they were more powerful, but they certainly felt that way just touching the brakes.

Do Codes always have this feeling? I quite like it, very modulated, but I don't want to be losing out on power. I'm wondering if there is something off with my set up.

Also I'm running stock organic pads if that matters?

I just want to know if my brakes are behaving normally. Also what are the best pads to use? Galfer don't make code pads so all I can find is Goodridge and Avid for sintered.

 

[Leppah]

My CODES work great. Almost too great. The first time out on the trails with them i had some close calls. Wasn't used to the power. I was locking up the front wheel before the turns. Luckily the trails were super loose or i would've ended up on my head a few times.

Mine seem super powerful. but i went from Hayes HFX9's to the CODES. I think those ceramic pads actually grip really good.

How many times have you ridden with the new brakes? Have they been broken in?

 

[big dan]

no problems with mine either, crazy powerful. I run a mix of sintered and organic pads.

 

[demo 9]

mine work ok until i flip the bike upside down. then its bleed time

 

[Alpha Kenny Body]

hey, anyone knows what kind of brake fluid i should use to bleed my codes, its been quite difficult to find avid bleed juice

 

[illflip]

mine work ok until i flip the bike upside down. then its bleed time

only complaint with mine

 

[Banshee Rider]

hey, anyone knows what kind of brake fluid i should use to bleed my codes, its been quite difficult to find avid bleed juice

The codes use DOT4 fluid.

 

[syc7090]

or dot 5.1

when i got bought my codes last year, i noticed that they weren't as grabby as my buddies'. i'm not sure if you've already done so, but you need to bleed them. i think they come pre-bled from the manufacturer, but most code owners (at least the ones i've talked with) will tell you that you will have to bleed them again. you can do a search. there are numerous posts/threads on codes.

 

[Viv92]

or dot 5.1

when i got bought my codes last year, i noticed that they weren't as grabby as my buddies'. i'm not sure if you've already done so, but you need to bleed them. i think they come pre-bled from the manufacturer, but most code owners (at least the ones i've talked with) will tell you that you will have to bleed them again. you can do a search. there are numerous posts/threads on codes.

Yeah the factory bleed is shocking, mine have a good bleed. Racing this weekend so I'm sure someone I find will give me a quick go on theirs so I can compare.

 

[thump]

mine work ok until i flip the bike upside down. then its bleed time

Ah.. I'm not alone. I have the '07 Codes. I never noticed it the first season, but for the past year I cringe anytime I have to turn the bike over.

I've noticed the metallics definitely do have more power, the tradeoff is squeal like crazy if they even get a hair out of alignment.

 

[selebrin]

yeah i have switched from hayes 9 to code 5s and i loooove them!!! they were awesome from the factory!! have them since september... haven't changed pad yet... bled them like a month ago just for fun... dot 4 or 5.1 will do... lots of power! great modulation!

 

[syc7090]

I cringe anytime I have to turn the bike over.

doesn't this just mean that there is air within the system?

 

[uncle-mofo]

doesn't this just mean that there is air within the system?

You would think so but most of the time avids still suck air in even when theyre perfectly bled. Although in fairness, when I was changing my Frame bearings I had my bike upside down for over 24 hours and they didn't go bad enough to warrant a bleed.

 

[syc7090]

most of the time avids still suck air in even when theyre perfectly bled.

interesting. could you please elaborate? is this your opinion or something that avid/sram has identified as an issue with the brakes? just curious.

 

[dhrookie]

the seals for the caliper get ate up, causing air to enter the system. if you bleed the brakes and notice black fluid coming out, send them in.

 

[syc7090]

the seals for the caliper get ate up, causing air to enter the system. if you bleed the brakes and notice black fluid coming out, send them in.

i thought the fluid turning dark was a result of regular usage, am i wrong?

 

[davep]

Sorry, but if air is getting into the system, then fluid is getting out. If you dont see fluid visably leaking out, no air is getting in.

What you guys are describing is from a small amount of air in the master cylinder that sits up out of the way (does not get pumped into the bore/piston) when the bike is right-side up. When turned over, the bubble moves its way to the new 'up' and find its way into the piston area. Most likely just a small pocket within the MC that is 'higher' than the bleed port when bleeding.

 

[toodles]

Davep - I see your point about fluid needing to get out, but it seems everytime I bleed my codes more air comes out.

I love the brakes, just wish they'd stay the same week in, week out rather than require constant attention.

 

[Viv92]

Davep - I see your point about fluid needing to get out, but it seems everytime I bleed my codes more air comes out.

I love the brakes, just wish they'd stay the same week in, week out rather than require constant attention.

Yeah when I was bleeding them it was crazy. I had to do it so many times. I've gotten other brakes bang on first attempt. At least I can bleed with my eyes closed now.


Looks like my original problem was in part due to the shop I eventually had bleed them because I got bored of it.

 

[toodles]

Ah they come up ok after a good bleed - my only issue is they don't seem to stay that way as long as other brakes.

The new Saints I've tried seem to be very consistent and require little maintenance, but I actually have a bit of trouble modulating the power on them. A lot of inadvertant skidding when I wasn't trying to. Tempted to try a set and hope the feel just requires a bit of learning.

 

[Udi]

You should try the 2010 model fingers. Better neuro-modulation for operating highly sensitive devices.

 

[djamgils]

damned I just upgraded to the 2009 model fingers and bought saints.
When do they start bringing out models in the appropriate year?

 

[thump]

Yeah when I was bleeding them it was crazy. I had to do it so many times. I've gotten other brakes bang on first attempt. At least I can bleed with my eyes closed now.

That's where I'm at. First season I ran them I bled them maybe twice all year and they ran great. Now it's almost monthly during DH season. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to ensure every possible bubble is out for a near perfect bleed, but they still just don't hold the bleed like they used to. I was going to rebuild the masters and replace to lines soon to see if it helps, if not, they're getting replaced with Saints.

 

[ride4fun]

the Code works really good for me. half way through the season, i switched the levers on them to Straitline, and the grip/feel was even better

 

[syc7090]

I love the brakes, just wish they'd stay the same week in, week out rather than require constant attention.

you took the words out of my mouth

 

[big dan]

never had a problem with my codes in 2 years of use... bled them once i think.

 

[toodles]

never had a problem with my codes in 2 years of use... bled them once i think.

Yeah but you've only ridden them once too

 

[demo 9]

22 bleeds for my front code-it will still get messed up if i flip it, air comes outa nowhere. PS im not doing the bleeding-i have a qualified mechanic do it bcuz i see how much trouble he has. we have absolutely no idea why and how it happens, even with different lines and stuff air somehow gets into it

 

[ChrisKring]

as davep said, there is a small bubble in the master cylinder if you have the described problem after flipping the bike over. I had that problem until I read the bleed directions again and noticed I was skipping the last step. Try it again and make sure to do the step where you pull on the syringe at the lever. It's step 22-24 on page 50 of this: http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/avid/dealers/TM_MY09_E.pdf

Sometimes I bleed it good and sometimes I have to try again but I always get it if I take my time.

 

[Viv92]

Ah they come up ok after a good bleed - my only issue is they don't seem to stay that way as long as other brakes.

The new Saints I've tried seem to be very consistent and require little maintenance, but I actually have a bit of trouble modulating the power on them. A lot of inadvertant skidding when I wasn't trying to. Tempted to try a set and hope the feel just requires a bit of learning.

I wish you had have told me that before you sold me your spare Codes!

Ahh well it was so cheap I can probably flog them off to some other bastard if they piss me off enough.

 

[big dan]

Yeah but you've only ridden them once too

Ha! How many races have i seen you at in the last 2 years old man!

 

[Udi]

I must say, every race i've been to in the last few years - big dan has been there... often with his angry sidekick.

 

[Steve M]

Sorry, but if air is getting into the system, then fluid is getting out. If you dont see fluid visably leaking out, no air is getting in.

What you guys are describing is from a small amount of air in the master cylinder that sits up out of the way (does not get pumped into the bore/piston) when the bike is right-side up. When turned over, the bubble moves its way to the new 'up' and find its way into the piston area. Most likely just a small pocket within the MC that is 'higher' than the bleed port when bleeding.

Actually, air can get in through the seals without oil getting out. The seals, particularly those in the master cylinders, are directional. They can keep oil in because higher oil pressures cause the seals to jam (kinda like fork oil seals, except without using the same kind of lip), but if the air pressure outside is higher than the oil pressure inside (ie you're drawing a strong vacuum in the oil with a syringe), air can actually push past the seal into the oil. This is or was acknowledged in the Avid bleed instructions among other things.

Moral of the story: don't draw strong vacuums when you're bleeding your brakes. As well as drawing air in through the seals, it will un-dissolve air bubbles that are dissolved in the fluid, which will then coalesce and be unable to dissolve again. This is the "de-gassing" effect that Avid recommend you use with their syringe clamps prior to bleeding the brakes.

 

[big dan]

I must say, every race i've been to in the last few years - big dan has been there... often with his angry sidekick.

ahh yes the angry sidekick! he does enjoy a good bit of firing up

 

[Viv92]

ahh yes the angry sidekick! he does enjoy a good bit of firing up

Will you and angry sidekick be hitting up the race this weekend? Should hopefully be my first time I actually start if I manage to get there!

 

[big dan]

Will you and angry sidekick be hitting up the race this weekend? Should hopefully be my first time I actually start if I manage to get there!

the angry sidekick will be there but my wife is due for our second baby so i need to miss my first state DH race in 5 years

 

[Viv92]

the angry sidekick will be there but my wife is due for our second baby so i need to miss my first state DH race in 5 years

You're going to lose the fastest old dude title!

Congrats on the baby.

 

[syc7090]

Actually, air can get in through the seals without oil getting out. The seals, particularly those in the master cylinders, are directional. They can keep oil in because higher oil pressures cause the seals to jam (kinda like fork oil seals, except without using the same kind of lip), but if the air pressure outside is higher than the oil pressure inside (ie you're drawing a strong vacuum in the oil with a syringe), air can actually push past the seal into the oil. This is or was acknowledged in the Avid bleed instructions among other things.

Moral of the story: don't draw strong vacuums when you're bleeding your brakes. As well as drawing air in through the seals, it will un-dissolve air bubbles that are dissolved in the fluid, which will then coalesce and be unable to dissolve again. This is the "de-gassing" effect that Avid recommend you use with their syringe clamps prior to bleeding the brakes.

this is great. thanks.

 

[thump]

this is great. thanks.

Agreed.. If this is true then I've probably created new bubbles by spending extra effort on the step where you're supposed to vacuum the lever.

 

[dap]

Actually, air can get in through the seals without oil getting out. The seals, particularly those in the master cylinders, are directional. They can keep oil in because higher oil pressures cause the seals to jam (kinda like fork oil seals, except without using the same kind of lip), but if the air pressure outside is higher than the oil pressure inside (ie you're drawing a strong vacuum in the oil with a syringe), air can actually push past the seal into the oil. This is or was acknowledged in the Avid bleed instructions among other things.

Right, but wasn't the problem described as flipping the bike over? Air pressure does not change by flipping a bike over. Its a closed system and shouldn't allow air or fluid out. If you force fluid/air in/out then that's a whole different issue. I think the best way to bleed the brakes is to bleed them, flip the bike, hit the lever, flip the bike back over and re-bleed (hey just my style... heh) g'luck (and I love my codes, 1 bleed since purchase last season)