[richgardiner]

Saw this on the dirt website:

The center tread pattern looks pretty different to the 2 kaisers I have in my room, were the Athertons developing a new version of it over the off season? I knew they were developing the new mud king but I had no idea that the Kaiser was going to change?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I read in the Maxxis thread about a tire called the Ramstein... Maybe this is it?

 

[Pslide]

This tire did say Kaiser on it in the pictures I saw, but not to say they won't rename it something else. Much more Minion DHF dna in this one. If it works just as good and lasts longer, then they might be on to something. But the side knobs look a little "dense" for my taste...

 

[marshalolson]

^^^that looks alot the original, pre-production, version of the der kaiser.

 

[Nagaredama]

Looks good.

Anyone find the side knobs on the current Der Kaiser's are bit too down the sidewall? Compared to Minion DHF and Hutchsinson Barracuda it feels like those knobs are way down there and take almost too much lean to catch.

Der Kaiser

Minion DHF

Hutchinson Barracuda

 

[EastCoaster]

Looks a lot like a Dissent with those blocky center knobs....

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Looks good.

Anyone find the side knobs on the current Der Kaiser's are bit too down the sidewall? Compared to Minion DHF and Hutchsinson Barracuda it feels like those knobs are way down there and take almost too much lean to catch.

Der Kaiser

There's something off about that pic. I run my Kaisers on 823's (by most standards, a narrow rim) and the profile is flatter than that image.

But, I can say that I'm stoked on them. The side knobs on those tires do incredible things. If you ride off camber terrain, they hook like nothing else. I've been on them long enough that I don't see the need to change them, but I'll be going back to Minions for comparisons sake.

 

[ZHendo]

i freaking love their tread designs and rubber for traction, but they roll so slow compared to other tires...great for nasty conditions but for someone running burly tires on an all mountain bike they're just too slow. hopefully this redesign can fix this?

 

[marshalolson]

^^^its not a redesign, that is the original design that was 86'd

 

[FCLinder]

I will have some new Kaiser's showing up at my house soon. When they get here I will take some Pics of them and post them up.

Cecil

 

[Kanye West]

Running them on Dual Duty's and that profile is pretty accurate. I love it.

 

[kidwoo]

Looks good.

Anyone find the side knobs on the current Der Kaiser's are bit too down the sidewall? Compared to Minion DHF and Hutchsinson Barracuda it feels like those knobs are way down there and take almost too much lean to catch.

They definitely could be closer to centerline. The biggest thing that annoyed me about them was what you mention PLUS the fact that the centerknobs are so tall, you kind of suddenly 'fall off' of them partway through a lean before you engage the sides. I didn't like them at all.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

They definitely could be closer to centerline. The biggest thing that annoyed me about them was what you mention PLUS the fact that the centerknobs are so tall, you kind of suddenly 'fall off' of them partway through a lean before you engage the sides. I didn't like them at all.

I'm glad you weighed in on this tire. It would be a good one to chat about for the other thread too.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Kaiser for where I ride. I've tried them in other areas too, but I need to go back to Minions now I think. Mostly to draw a comparison. As soon as my back tire is smoked, I'm going to run a 3C DHF on the front and rear, but when summer hits I'll change to a 60a Highroller in the back. (you know, for skidding...)

Almost any tire will work good in Ashland in the winter, but when summer hits it's way different. We have a sandy, DG type of dirt here that hardens up to stone in the lower elevations. Most tires I've tried with intermediate knobs just plain suck here in the summer. I was given a Kaiser to try and quickly realized that dead space it has seemed to work for me... I think the compound also has a lot to do with it.

 

[Nagaredama]

They definitely could be closer to centerline. The biggest thing that annoyed me about them was what you mention PLUS the fact that the centerknobs are so tall, you kind of suddenly 'fall off' of them partway through a lean before you engage the sides. I didn't like them at all.

That is exactly how they felt. I seemed to fall off the center knobs before the sides in engaged. I will keep riding the pair I have and hopefully I can adapt to them. If not then I'll go back to Minions or grab a set of Butchers.

My personal favorite is the Hutchinson Barracuda. That tires just railed when I hit the side knobs. Unfortunately I can't get those for $13 anymore from Greenfish.

 

[kidwoo]

That is exactly how they felt. I seemed to fall off the center knobs before the sides in engaged. I will keep riding the pair I have and hopefully I can adapt to them.

I'll tell you the same thing I told the guy who owned the bike I ride with those tires. Find the biggest, longest paved mountain pass you can, and buy some beer for a buddy to keep shuttling you to the top. Keep skidding the whole way down till the centerknobs are half the size

My personal favorite is the Hutchinson Barracuda. That tires just railed when I hit the side knobs. Unfortunately I can't get those for $13 anymore from Greenfish.

I stockpiled the crap out of those things in the 2.3 for my trail bike. I've still got some dh versions still sitting around brand new if you want some. But yeah I like the sideknob walls on those things. You can just lean on them hard. But those pointy braking edges on the centerknobs that alternate caused some sketchy braking when slightly leaned over for me once it gets really dry here. If they had just changed that angle, those tires would have been really good. I actually just cut all the centerknobs off on the ones I use for my trail bike........much better

 

[kidwoo]

Here's something that demonstrates what everyone loves about the squared profile of the minions vs. something like this kaiser thing.


Just look at the difference in the angle you have to be at before engaging the sides. This is one of the things that I was talking about in that other thread about knobs on a tire interfering with the function of other knobs on the same tire. You can't even get the fvckers on that kaiser until you're pretty far over.

 

[Nagaredama]

Here's something that demonstrates what everyone loves about the squared profile of the minions vs. something like this kaiser thing.


Just look at the difference in the angle you have to be at before engaging the sides. This is one of the things that I was talking about in that other thread about knobs on a tire interfering with the function of other knobs on the same tire. You can't even get the fvckers on that kaiser until you're pretty far over.

Exactly how those tires feel.

I just bought a set 2.3 folding Barracuda's on eBay for $25 shipped.

The downside to the $13 closeout DH tires was the casing sucked. I ripped the casing on all 5 of mine right in the middle. Guess they couldn't handle the rocks at Mammoth.

 

[Dogboy]

Here's something that demonstrates what everyone loves about the squared profile of the minions vs. something like this kaiser thing.


Just look at the difference in the angle you have to be at before engaging the sides. This is one of the things that I was talking about in that other thread about knobs on a tire interfering with the function of other knobs on the same tire. You can't even get the fvckers on that kaiser until you're pretty far over.

My Kaiser's don't have that profile at all. Maybe it's the rims they are mounted on (21mmID/28mmID), but they are definitely more squared off. I'll post up a pic later for reference.

 

[kidwoo]

My Kaiser's don't have that profile at all. Maybe it's the rims they are mounted on (21mmID/28mmID), but they are definitely more squared off. I'll post up a pic later for reference.

Yeah that's something that definitely matters. Rims make a big difference on how a tire ends up being profiled obviously. I run 729s vs 721s on my bike specifically for that reason alone. I don't like my tires getting too round or all laterally rolly.

Still though........those centers make that angle greater than it need be. Plus look at how far you have to lean them over to get the wall of the sidknob perpendicular to the ground where they start to become the most effective (assuming you're not on hardpack).

 

[slowitdown]

kidwoo bringing the tire knowledge!

you need to get in with some company as a designer or at least consultant.

 

[norbar]

Exactly how those tires feel.

I just bought a set 2.3 folding Barracuda's on eBay for $25 shipped.

The downside to the $13 closeout DH tires was the casing sucked. I ripped the casing on all 5 of mine right in the middle. Guess they couldn't handle the rocks at Mammoth.

I wish I could get my hands on a set of old 2.5 MX casting Low tire compound tires. I remember pricepoint had them for ~12$ and I bought a truckload of them but that compound was 35a according to hutchinson so they are long gone.

 

[Pslide]

I had some 'cudas with the grey and black rubber. Medium compound maybe? Should have called it the ice compound. They came off quickly. Tread pattern seemed fine though.

 

[kidwoo]

I had some 'cudas with the grey and black rubber. Medium compound maybe? Should have called it the ice compound. They came off quickly. Tread pattern seemed fine though.

Those were the equivalent of a 60d tire from what I remember. Probably fine for a rear once you got them broken in and the vulcanization layer off them......for a rear at least.......and once you cut off the center knobs that point the wrong way. Crappy designs get all kinds of accentuated when you stiffen up the rubber

I bought those things for the sidknob wall but the rest definitely needed some improvement.

 

[norbar]

Yeah there was only one good rubber on the cudas. Low. Even the medium one was super bad. Low on the other hand was insanely sticky.

 

[Nagaredama]

Anyone have any experience with the RainKing/Der Baron? Looks like a good tire with better side knob placement compared to the Der Kaiser.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/mtb/downhill_freeride/DerBaron/derbaron_en.html

 

[Orvan]

Kidwoo's jedi mind-control trick worked and got me to install this...

 

[worship_mud]

Anyone have any experience with the RainKing/Der Baron? Looks like a good tire with better side knob placement compared to the Der Kaiser.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/mtb/downhill_freeride/DerBaron/derbaron_en.html

i'm riding the rain king / now Baron for two years now, throughout the whole season. the tyre is fantastic and has it's strength in intermediate / wet conditions esp. humid/wet forrest grounds with roots. it grips and corners incredibly well.
it's only in the dry / rocky conditions that the rubber compound seems to disintegrate, so i'll try another tyre for these conditions this season. overall i'll have to say that i like it a lot.

 

[babw]

After riding Rain Kings for a last few months, I'd take their knob position over Maxxis any day. The grip of the Conti's come from the compound and not the position/size of the knobs. Knob position plays a far more crucial role in mud clearance and if you think a normal DH course which has a lot of camber changes therefore the amount of lean needed to engage those differs constantly so I don't think there's a right/wrong position for them.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I've had a Rain King on the front of my bike for a few months now. I installed it to try out before going to Whistler last fall. Without a doubt; if you're going to ride Garbanzo in the wet, this is a great choice. I was stunned at the amount of traction I had in places where there shouldn't have been any.

 

[ZHendo]

i still have a set of rain kings that are sitting as spares/winter tires right now. they're excellent tires but they roll very, very slowly in my experience. the grip is the best i've ever experienced in a tire, but that grip comes from the crazy soft (yet durable) rubber and chunky knob design, neither of which are conducive to low rolling resistance.

 

[FCLinder]

Will have a lot of the 2011 Kaiser's showing up on my door step Monday. I will take pictures.

Cecil

 

[Nagaredama]

Any of you guys rung the RainKing/Der Baron in dry SoCal like conditions? Sounds like they will chunk right up and disintegrate.

I love the Black Chili rubber just wish those side knobs were higher up on Der Kaiser.

 

[chillindrdude]

i'm running rain king up front and der kaiser in the back. i'm liking this combo thus far. it's hooking up well in the loamy/intermediate conditions here. i'm liking the compound as much as i like the schwalbe equivalent.

 

[Kanye West]

RideMonkey is the only place that will complain about a tire that lets a rider lean more than they would normally be able to..

 

[FCLinder]

The 2011 Kaiser's came in yesterday. They look really nice. Haven't used them yet. Will in the next few weeks. I would say they seem to be just as nice by looks, feel, and foot print as Comp 16's and the Specialized Clutch DH. Knobs are super soft and grippy!!! Now with that being said riding them will tell me more......

Cecil

 

[richgardiner]

Does the pattern look more like the one in the picture in the first post of this thread or just like the standard kaiser?

 

[FCLinder]

A few shots:

Weight on the 2.5" is 2.63lbs

Cecil

 

[Nagaredama]

RideMonkey is the only place that will complain about a tire that lets a rider lean more than they would normally be able to..

Moar Lean!

 

[Nagaredama]

Riding the Der Kaisers on rocky trails this weekend really made me appreciated the grip those knobs and more importantly the rubber provide on these things.

Hopefully the budget will allow for a set of Der Baron to compare them against.

 

[richgardiner]

Thanks FCLinder! They must have cost a fair bit! Wish I had that many conti's