[ALEXIS_DH]

ok, i know some of you have seen a lot of indiana jones movies and think salmonella is a catchy name for a deadly disease.

i dont know whats up with certain kind of american/european yuppie tourists wanting the "experience" of living the grittiest of a 3rd world country first hand. and think of that as a "tourist attraction".

i mean, i think its awesome down here, there are sooooooooo awesome places to go a visit, nazca, macchu picchu, the northern shore (so many great places, you wouldnt be able to visit them all in months).... but there are certain places and things you just should NOT do, out of basic common sense (just like you would never walk around nyc central park at 3am)... but funnily enough, these places are not only avoided by this kind of american/european versions of the japanese-photographer tourist, but become in a twist of reality, MUST GO places, getting priority over places of greater value.

why so many lack this common sense and think getting mugged or getting desyntheria is an experience worth living makes no sense to me.

why the rant? a french girl who was childhood friend of mine came to back Lima, we didnt see each since since age 8, and she is now 24.
among the first things we said when we met, she made clear she wanted to know the shanty towns. i was like "i dont think there is much to see there... just abject depressing poverty and an almost certain chance of getting mugged". but she was very persistant about it.
fortunately she was in town with her 20yo brother who pushed some sense, although they liked to hang out late at relatively unsafe places. taking chances was the name of the game. they have been in town for 6 days go far, and statistics adding up dont forgive.

she calls today morning crying, she was mugged last night in a really bad part of town (a place where there was NOTHING of cultural, historical or artistic value to see). at gunpoint, they even took away her brothers coat.
i mean, whats the attraction of places like that?? seriously, people do not consider they are the equivalent of places like the run down part of greenwich in london, or the projects in the bronx??? just because they are 3rd world, poverty and crime get a romantic che-guevera-esque air injected???
geez...

 

[LordOpie]

awesome story.

If she's hot, then you should "comfort" her.

 

[skatetokil]

Maybe I can explain: When Americans go to a country they want to see how the majority of that country's population actually lives. A city center anywhere in the world approximately resembles Los Angeles, which we have already seen. You may have spent your life tripping over poor slum dwellers left and right, and it might not seem that interesting to you, but we don't have poverty like that here and only know about it in an academic sense. We have no illusions about it being romantic, but when there are 1,000,000,000+ people living in slums much like those surrounding Lima, we obliged to find out the truth about their lives. These people aren't on the internets telling us what's up. If we can get that information by spending an afternoon someplace relatively unpleasant and it only costs us a few bucks and a coat, it might be worth it.

 

[Serial Midget]

Have you ever tried to find good tacos on 5th Avenue?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Maybe I can explain: When Americans go to a country they want to see how the majority of that country's population actually lives. A city center anywhere in the world approximately resembles Los Angeles, which we have already seen. You may have spent your life tripping over poor slum dwellers left and right, and it might not seem that interesting to you, but we don't have poverty like that here and only know about it in an academic sense. We have no illusions about it being romantic, but when there are 1,000,000,000+ people living in slums much like those surrounding Lima, we obliged to find out the truth about their lives. These people aren't on the internets telling us what's up. If we can get that information by spending an afternoon someplace relatively unpleasant and it only costs us a few bucks and a coat, it might be worth it.

why would you travel half the world and spend a few dollars and a coat to watch how poor people live, when there is so much of the same virtually anywhere in the world (just browner people here), and call it a vacation???
with so many awesome and different places (not saying the cookie cutter starbucks-like-places the whole world is becoming... and very cheap as well), i dont know how watching (and not even helpìng, just watching in morbid fascination) people as poor as the ones who live a few miles away from you, gets to be a priority.

you can easily walk into a project anywhere in the states, see how single moms make a living.... and as a bonus you can also get mugged at gunpoint.
in essence, abject proverty and crime isnt very different across the world... unless you want to get into morbid details.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Have you ever tried to find good tacos on 5th Avenue?

because we all know, EVERY unsafe place holds a hidden incomparable and priceless secret worth taking the risk....

 

[LordOpie]

people do it to feel better about themselves and their lives.

 

[Spero]

people do it to feel better about themselves and their lives.

and to adopt 80 kids because they get good media coverage.

 

[I Are Baboon]

People are dumb.

 

[Yeti]

hey alexis...what part of lima was it? let me guess: Surquillo?
No, really. You got a point. Several times i have thought about the same. People just don't get it and the worst part is that after something has happened to them, they blame the people that live there.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

hey alexis...what part of lima was it? let me guess: Surquillo?
No, really. You got a point. Several times i have thought about the same. People just don't get it and the worst part is that after something has happened to them, they blame the people that live there.

worse than that. at least in surquillo you can claim you got lost, or you were going somewhere else...
it was near avenida venezuela, a few blocks from the donofrio factory. yes, an industrial zone. what the hell is there to see there, besides heavy industries?? who knows....

 

[DavidMakalaster]

Sometimes the best travel experiences come from meeting the real people in an area. I don't know about Peru but I've had amazing experiences with lower-class people on Grand Bahama, Charlotte Amalie, and Haitian Hispaniola. Stuff you can't get from a tour guide. I was the only white guy in on a HUGE smoke session and drum jam in the ghetto on Grand Bahama. They had some amazing barbecue too. Every Haitian I had the oppurtunity to meet was incredibly generous and welcoming. At one point Charlotte Amalie (St.Thomas) had the highest murder rate per-capita of any American territorial city. The people there kicked ass too. All this from wondering in the "ghetto".

 

[drakan]

As an american, I think it's just plain dumb. I lived in Indonesia for 3 years, so I know what it's like, and it's no good. I've had grenades thrown at me, guns shot at me, and my school bombed. Not to mention the heavy hostility to americans there, because the country is 90% muslim *Disclaimer* Not regular muslims run the country, extremists do.
So, I see no point in doing that.
I find it better to go INSIDE our own country to outlandish places and have fun. I went to Alaska this summer, and I am going to spend a week in a National park next summer. It's safter, and you can still experience the whole "alone in the wild" feel, without being close to soemthing evil.

 

[Zark]

I go to 3rd world ghettos for only one reason: Exotic crack whore babies to add to my fighting rotation.

 

[jdcamb]

I go to 3rd world ghettos for only one reason: Exotic crack whore babies to add to my fighting rotation.

I haven't been to any 3rd world ghettos but I bet the crack whore babies in Buffalo NY would stack up to any crack whore babies anywhere. Chit just living through a couple of winters on the back porch has got to make you tougher.....

 

[h22ekhatch]

Hmm, sounds like my cousin who is from Brazil. He complains about the tourist obession with the favelas all the time...

 

[sanjuro]

I lived in slums or right next to one my entire life:

The Bronx
Buffalo
New Orleans
Hartford

Even in SF, I live blocks away from Hunter's Point and Visitacion Valley.

I believe I am smart and tough enough to live on the edge of chaos, and my last 30 years have proven me correct. I think you see a side of life that you won't normally be exposed to.

I have wondered about visiting South American slums, particularily in Rio. I know comfort but I don't know abject poverty.

Have I romanticize it? Possibly. I know none of the places I have lived can compare in desperation to the inner-city of SA. But I am still curious.

 

[Yeti]

worse than that. at least in surquillo you can claim you got lost, or you were going somewhere else...
it was near avenida venezuela, a few blocks from the donofrio factory. yes, an industrial zone. what the hell is there to see there, besides heavy industries?? who knows....

lmao...really wtf where they doing there?

 

[Da Peach]

lmao...really wtf where they doing there?

Outlet shopping?

 

[Westy]

Awesome T-shirt idea. "I went to the ghettos of Lima and all I made it out with was this lousy t-shirt"

 

[douglas]

why would you travel half the world and spend a few dollars and a coat to watch how poor people live, when there is so much of the same virtually anywhere in the world (just browner people here), and call it a vacation???

I wouldnt.
I'd much rather go to VT to ride my bike, or CO to snow ski or to FL to sit by the pool or kayak in the ocean...oh wait, thats what I did do this year.

 

[ire]

Personally I don't get it and wouldn't do it. Maybe they think they will really "experience" the country if they go to the poorest part? If I went to Africa, I wouldn't want to see poor people, I would want people waiting on me hand and foot I don't know much about Peru, is it pretty poor in general or just certain areas?

<edit> I would want to see poor people, just have them waiting on me

 

[KavuRider]

People are dumb.

That's your answer.

Spending a bunch of money to go to another country to look at how the "poor" live? Sounds kinda effed up to me.
How about instead, you just donate that money or something?

To me, vacation means going to have a good time, not worrying about getting mugged.
When a local tells you "stay out of such and such area"...you better listen.

 

[MikeD]

They want to do it so they can go home and pretend they had some mystical experience among the 'people,' so that they can draw upon it for self-validation for the rest of their lives.

"No, you don't understand, see...I was in LIMA (that's in PERU, you ignoramus) and it was so totally amazing...the people...they understand what life is about, not like you Americans...I'm one of them now, a citizen of the world who rejects your materialism..."

And they don't think it's sort of spiritually exploitative to use the poverty of others to increase your own sense of self-worth.


And thus, I present The Onion. (Ensure you read the second half.)

 

[sanjuro]

They want to do it so they can go home and pretend they had some mystical experience among the 'people,' so that they can draw upon it for self-validation for the rest of their lives.

"No, you don't understand, see...I was in LIMA (that's in PERU, you ignoramus) and it was so totally amazing...the people...they understand what life is about, not like you Americans...I'm one of them now, a citizen of the world who rejects your materialism..."

And they don't think it's sort of spiritually exploitative to use the poverty of others to increase your own sense of self-worth.


And thus, I present The Onion. (Ensure you read the second half.)

A friend who I lived with in Buffalo and New Orleans came to town, and we drove thru Hunter's Point.

What was my reason?

 

[blue]

They want to do it so they can go home and pretend they had some mystical experience among the 'people,' so that they can draw upon it for self-validation for the rest of their lives.

"No, you don't understand, see...I was in LIMA (that's in PERU, you ignoramus) and it was so totally amazing...the people...they understand what life is about, not like you Americans...I'm one of them now, a citizen of the world who rejects your materialism..."

And they don't think it's sort of spiritually exploitative to use the poverty of others to increase your own sense of self-worth.


And thus, I present The Onion. (Ensure you read the second half.)

I feel bad quoting a NOFX song so often, but it always seems to fit...

The Marxist Brothers
Artist:NOFX

We meet in underground parking lots
And late night in coffee shops
With voices low unless we&#8217;re drunk
We've got hats and cupped sunglasses
We question all that is wrong
We discuss conspiracy
Are we enemies of the state?
Or idealist bourgeoisie?

I&#8217;ll get this one, put it on my card
I get frequent flyer mileage
And a booklet of upgrades
So next time I visit the third world
I won&#8217;t have to fly second class
The people's revolution is gonna be a podcast

We took the bus to the anarchist book fair
I left the hybrid at home
I scored an extremely rare signed copy of the communist manifesto
We protested the G8, got maced by female police
In hot black uniforms and boots
I got one&#8217;s e-mail address

Still I&#8217;m waiting to see if my bid on eBay was enough
To get "Today&#8217;s Empires Are Tomorrow&#8217;s Ashes" on soviet red vinyl
It&#8217;s going on the wall next to "Tubthumper" and "The Battle Of Los Angeles"
Of Los Angeles

 

[Strakar]

Sometimes the best travel experiences come from meeting the real people in an area.

Exactly

I think I'm bordering your concept, or at least from time to times people might accuse me of doing the same thing.

When I travel I don't look for poverty, but I try to escape from the big cities, the landmarks, the tourist-traps etc.

I do it because when on vacations I really need to feel "disconnected" to be able to relax, and "go with the flow". That means to avoid big plans, schedules and just let myself go. I spent the 2 last weeks of August in Morocco, and one of the most relaxing things was to be able to go everywhere without fear. Of course that I wasn't looking for the dangerous zones (they have no extra appeal just because there's a risk of being mugged), but if a country is poor, I will definitely not restrict myself to the rich areas, I already have that at home. Often the less developed areas make the "true" country and where you'll find how people live, etc.

When I travel the best things that I bring home are the stories. You cannot get those from the window of a tour bus.

That said, I understand that there are those that go to the worst places just to be able to say that they've been there. Well that's not me and I don't get that either, but to be true I don't think there's many people like that. I think that what it happens is that people are used to identify that sort of dangers at their home environment. When they go abroad the scenery changes and so do the dangers. They feel more secure and take risks that they wouldn't take at their home countries, most of the times without knowing that they're taking them.