[flat broke]

This has all been posted on another board, but I know there are guys here that ride at either "the spot" or perhaps spend some time in PV on occaision. Mountain Biking's fate at at Del Cerro aka Canyons Ecologcial Reserve will more than likely be largely determined Wednesday night (November 7th). If anyone will be free tomorrow to show up in support of trail access for bikes; related information is as follows.

Quoted from STR

While there is already another very insightful thread about the political on goings that are happening at Del Cerro, this thread is specifically about what we need to do at this Wednesday's (November 7th) PUMP meeting in Rancho Palos Verdes.

Basically, if you've ever ridden Del Cerro or seen pictures and had it on your "to do" list, you need to attend this meeting. The incarnation of the trail network plan that will be submitted for public review will be voted on come Wednesday. This is your chance to address the committee directly and give your input on the map in real time.

While there are many issues that you are welcome to comment on, sound input on the proposed trail network and usages is the main focus of the meeting. There are members of the committee that have a hard time believing that responsible mountain bikers are the majority of our community. Along those lines, simple statements to the committee affirming any of the statements below would be extremely valuable in demonstrating that we aren’t a bunch of eco-terrorists; and in fact welcome a structured trail system that serves the needs of conservation while still allowing fair and equal access to mountain bikers.

-I have volunteered time to trail work in other locations and would be happy to do the same in the Canyons preserve (Del Cerro).

-I ride in a responsible manner obeying designated trail uses, and take the time to instruct fellow cyclists using my local trails to do the same.

-I have been cycling for X number of years and have never had a confrontation with a hiker or equestrian trail user.

In addition to these issues, the idea of a dedicated “technical riding” area has been mentioned. This area to the coastal side of PV drive has been suggested.

While it is not huge in terms of acreage, it has a nice incline and is essentially a blank canvas. The idea here is to channel energies that are currently being applied to the detriment of the reserve into a more constructive outcome for both the habitat and the related users. Having a designated area for “technical riding” not only provides a much needed means of channeling a specific subset of our user group towards positive actions; but could help to reduce the overall impact of “technical riding” in other areas of the preserve. Taking the time to affirm some of the following points/beliefs to the committee, could not only assist in establishing a formal “technical riding” area, but also expanding the scope of trails available in the rest of the preserve by alleviating concerns that “technical riding” will continue to cause problems within the existing trail network.

-I strongly feel that giving riders a dedicated space to pursue the more technical aspect of our pastime will provide a dramatic reduction, if not completely eliminate the unauthorized trail work that has been a problem at the Canyons preserve (Del Cerro)

-I would be willing to donate time towards developing trails in a dedicated “technical riding” area.

-Having a dedicated “technical riding” area would provide an excellent outlet for many of the younger members of our community.

That’s pretty much it. If you noticed, I’ve omitted the term “Freeride” from the statements above. The reason being is that Freeride is synonymous to trail cutting and habitat destruction in the eyes of some of the committee members. The more we can do to circumvent pre-existing prejudices and demonstrate that we as a community tend to follow rules and support/assist the efforts of land management agencies, the easier it will be to convince the committee that our community is worthy of trust and self management.

As for decorum and general information, here are a couple observations:
I’m sure we’re going to see a large turnout from some anti-bike type folks. The best thing we can do to repel their slanderous statements is to speak only to fact or personal observations. As an example, if you want to state that hikers cause equal or greater erosion and widening of trails; do so with support from some scientific evidence or a published study. Keeping a cool head and staying on topic will help our community in the long run.

Please plan to arrive by 6:30 as it’s going to be crowded. Doing so also allows you time to fill out your speaker slip, secure a seat, and meet with other concerned mountain bikers to discuss areas of concern that should be addressed at the meeting.

Refrain from verbal outbursts of either support or disgust in response to both committee member statements, and those from the public. If you have something to say, you’ll have a chance at the podium.

As per the RPV list server: Date, time, location and agenda information is as follows:

PUBLIC USE MASTER PLAN COMMITTEE AGENDA WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2007 AT 7:00 PM RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY HALL COMMUNITY ROOM 30940 HAWTHORNE BLVD.

THIS PUMP COMMITTEE MEETING IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE NOVEMBER 10th CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON THE VISION PLAN

1. CALL TO ORDER
2. ROLL CALL
3. ADOPT DRAFT OCTOBER 17, 2007 AND OCTOBER 30, 2007 MINUTES
4. CONTINUED BUSINESS
a. Affirm the Final Draft Trails Network Plan for the Canyons ER and the Three Sisters ER.
To view the Canyons ER Map click here.
To view the Three Sisters ER Trail Use Map click here.
To view the SUN'P proposal for the Canyons ER click here.
To view the Long-Term (CORBA-PV) proposal for the Canyons ER click here.
b. Select a Meeting Date to Receive Public Input on the Final Draft Trails Network Plan
5. NEW BUSINESS
a. Introduction to Uses within the Preserve.
6. PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA
7. ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
8. ADJOURNMENT Next meeting is to be determined
For more information on the PUMP click here.

I'm looking forward to meeting some fellow Monkeys and STR members Wednesday evening.

Chris

 

[jonKranked]

i'm there

 

[W4S]

I couldn't make it, any news? Will there be a chairlift next week?

 

[flat broke]

To add to what Sharky has already stated, last week's shenanigans from one of the committee members aren't likely to be tolerated for long by the remainder of the committee. That is why it is important that we attend each and every one of these last few meetings to determine the fate for bikes on the trails. There are people that have been involved with the fight on this specific piece of dirt for over 4 years. The least anyone that rides there (or would like to be able to in the future) can do is show up to support the cause.

Believe it or not, there are actually non-bike people on the committee that are SERIOUSLY entertaining the idea of a designated "challenging terrain/technical riding" area in addition to more AM pursuits in the rest of the preserve.

If you've ever ridden at Del Cerro or are open to the idea of having an area specifically set aside for technical riding without hiker/equestrian conflicts, please make it a point to attend the meeting this Wednesday.

If you're afraid of public speaking, at least come out to support the pro-bike movement with your presence. In all honesty, right now the most important thing the average user can do is step up to the podium and make a short statement about how they support multiuse trails and see the value of a dedicated area where riders can be challenged. A couple hours and a few sentences of your time can make a HUGE difference in MTB access to this area.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[jonKranked]

once again, I'll be there. 2 of my buddies may be tagging along also, as they ride this area too.

 

[flat broke]

See ya there!

 

[flat broke]

Here is an update on the status of the trails at Del Cerro. Last week's Meeting on the 28th gained us some ground in terms of the Paint Brush trail.

This is another small step in a series of steps towards holding on to an area where we used to be able to ride on any trial we chose. It can't be emphasized enough, how much we need support from the MTB community at these meetings. Each week, we hear from the horse and hiker community on how their horses are spooked by careless bikers, and how hikers have been run down by people on bikes. Fresh faces from the MTB community stating that we use the trails in a responsible manner and our experiences are inconsistent with the stories being relayed by equestrians and hikers, can be very helpfull in at least challenging some of the BS that is being used to exclude us.

For those of you that do ride at Del Cerro, big changes are comming outside of the PUMP process. On November 20th the Rancho Palos Verdes City Council voted to allow the land conservancy to effect temporary closures in areas where sensitive habitat needs a break from human interaction. On the bright side, common sense prevailed amongst the council members, and instead of voting to only allow the PVPLC to close the area to bikes, they indicated that any closures must be to all users. This is a big step in recognizing and acting against some of the discriminitory activities that have been going on.

I don't know what will be closed, or how it will be marked; but if you see trail closure signs, PLEASE OBEY BY THEM. You can be sure the trail nazis will be out with cameras looking for opportunities to catch bikers in the act of disregarding management attempts. If we can't show that we're a responsible user group, we stand to lose much of which we've gained in the past few months.

The next meeting is 12/12. Additionally, there will be a public workshop held by the city council on 2/23/08 at 9:30am. This will be a last hoorah of sorts to make our case in front of the city council. Hopefully we'll see a few fellow Monkeys out at the meetings. There aren't a lot of places to ride in the SoBay area without driving too far, and by summer, I'm pretty sure premium will be at $4/gallon. Do what you can now to help hold on to whatever trails we can.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[TYM]

I was up there yesterday when I came across a group of 4 having a meeting in the middle of the trail (near the jump area). I had to ride around them because they had no plans on moving over. I recognized one of the ladies as she was pointed out by a buddy of mine a few days earlier. Apparently she has nothing better to do but complain about mountain bikers.

I took a break on the cement block under the tree and could hear everything they were saying. Basically she and the other two ladies were complaining about the jump area. Stating it was an eye-sore and everything should be natural and pretty. The one gentleman was somewhat neutral but didn’t really sound like a mountain biker either. He said there should not be separate bike and hike/equestrian trails. His idea was bikes can ride on certain days at a specific time. Other suggestions were to have a jump area fenced off somewhere else.

Random stupid comments heard:

1) No downhill shuttles (really, who shuttles there and how could they prevent it anyway?)

2) If you have to wear body armor like a gladiator then you shouldn’t be riding a bike (yes you are right, it’s better to break yourself then to be labeled a “downhiller.”)

3) When everyone raised money to save the area hikers probably gave more money than bikers (maybe true but what’s your point?) Then the guys said well that few hours a day bikers can ride is probably about right (WTF???)

I really wish I could attend the meetings but I don’t live here anymore. Everyone (XC, DH, FR and recreational riders) must fight to keep access. It would be a shame to lose the only riding area in the South Bay.

Good luck all!

Tim

 

[jonKranked]

its all gonna fall into the ocean in a few years so everyone should quit their bickering and enjoy it while its still part of a landmass

 

[flat broke]

It's that time again.... PUMP Committee Meeting Fun Time! Here's the copy/paste of the agenda from the RPV Listserver Email.



PUBLIC USE MASTER PLAN COMMITTEE AGENDA WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2007 AT 7:00 PM RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY HALL COMMUNITY ROOM 30940 HAWTHORNE BLVD.

1. CALL TO ORDER

2. ROLL CALL

3. COMMITTEE COMMUNICATIONS

4. ADOPT DRAFT NOVEMBER 28, 2007 MINUTES

5. CONTINUED BUSINESS

a. Review and Approve the Trail Routes for the Canyons ER. Click here to view the map.

b. Review a Motion Statement Proposed By Committee Member Tetreault Regarding the Environmental Condition of the Canyons ER

c. Affirm the Final Draft Trails Network Plan for the Three Sisters ER. Click here to view the map.

6. NEW BUSINESS a. Select a Meeting Calendar for 2008

b. Introduction to Uses within the Preserve.

7. PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA

8. ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS

9. ADJOURNMENT Next meeting is to be determined





Let me start by saying, I'm not going to be able to attend. I have a family obligation that takes precedence over most other activities. So in my stead, I'm sure there will be other Monkeys to attend and report back the on goings, nuances, and intricacies of the meeting. There are still a notable number of trails that need representation by the biking community as they are decided upon by the PUMP Committee.



I can honestly say that from when I started attending meetings, I think the outlook for bikers in the area once under management has improved. There have been some big ups and downs, and a few close calls, but as a community we've come out of each ordeal in better shape than what the worst case scenario offered. This can only be attributed to the biking community getting involved and standing up for ourselves. We need to constantly reinforce the idea that a VERY small percentage of our family is responsible for some of the damage and negative accounts by trail users. Only by staying involved and voicing our desire to have access to each and every trail voted on, can we hope to have good representation in the final PUMP Committee recommendation.



To further the idea that getting involved can foster positive results; I've heard heard rumblings that members of the community leadership are in favor of a technical riding area, and envision the concept in a fashion we could have only hoped for. Additionally, it seems that support for a dedicated technical riding area is growing among decision makers as the positive aspects of the concept are easily recognized. I view news like this as encouragement and an invitation to remain involved and vocal with regard to our access in the area. There are a number of people who have been fighting this battle for the past couple of years, and we owe them many thanks. There is no doubt that the infusion of fresh faces and the perception of a larger number of users being bikers is helping our cause to some degree with the PUMP process, but also at the City Council/decision making level. Long story short, we need to stay involved and keep attending meetings.

With regard to the meeting of of hikers on the trail, I'm guessing that the one lady that was pointed out to you was probably Eva, while the gentleman was John Stevens. Eva's family donated big $$ to the conservancy, and for that she feels obligation and right to crusade against bikers with blind hate and prejudice. John Stevens is a sensible and nice guy. He regularly votes pro-bike/multiuse during the meetings and basically wants nature to be preserved, but everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy it. He is definitely not a bad guy in terms of our fight for trail access. I'm pretty sure his sugesstion for access during different hours of the day has purely arisen out of exasperation with the whole PUMP Committee process. He's just trying to find a way to make a situation work, and for that no one should find fault with him. If there were more people like him on the committee, the trail map would have been approved long ago, and I'm sure it would be something we could live with.

As a last request, while I don't know of any closures posted by the Conservancy yet, once the signs go up, please respect them and obey them. We will surely be closely scrutinized once the signs are in place. Showing a disregard for marked trails (be they closed or not) doesn't help our argument that we are a responsible group.



Good luck at the meeting, and I'll see everyone at the next one.



Chris

 

[bdamschen]

Have signs been posted yet? I'll be down that way visting my girlfriend's parents after xmas and we would usually bring our bikes with us to ride out there. Think it will still be open?

 

[jonKranked]

i am in the process of purchasing gargantuan amounts of explosives... i'm gonna sink that piece of land, that way the only ones who can enjoy are the fish.