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Demo 8 vs. 7 point 7

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by afromandookie, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. afromandookie

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    Hi I need your help. I'm going to be buying a new bike soon and I'm not sure what to get. I'm thinking of getting a brand new demo 8 I or a 2005 7 point 7. Those are my two choices but, any others that cost up to about $3500 could be my choices also. I ride mostly trails and go to Whistler every summer and will go to North Star a few time this summer hopefully.:)
     

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  2. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    well as a person that works in a shop, i would have to say go specialized. Not because we carry specialized, but because we carry ironhorse. I have seen an aweful lot of quality control related problems coming from ironhorse lately, and their customer service has absolutely sucked every time i have had to call them to get parts under warranty for anything. Im sure the 7.7 is a nice bike, but from what i have seen there is a good chance that when you get one it will be goofed up to some extent. Now if you are purchasing it through a shop, and you get to check it out before you buy it, you will probably be allright. But i would probably go specialized.
     
  3. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    I will agree that IronHorse has a bad habbit of making shop employees bitter. I am a very bitter ex-wrench. But telling someone to buy a specialized is just mean. On the consumer end IH isn't half bad.
     
  4. Heavy C

    Heavy C Chimp

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    What quality control issues are you referring to? It seems to me that IH Bikes is very proactive in dealing with any problems and certainly focussed on refining there products.

    I have had nothing but prompt, professional service with any dealings.

    The 7.7 is more of a 'due everything' ride than the d8. You cant easily take the demo out on a long pedal up to that epic dh.
    I have djumped, dh'd, and done long xc on my 7.7. and as a park bike it has a slightly steeper head angle amking it very responsive but still totally stable on Garbonzo trails or elsewhere.
     
  5. Netguy

    Netguy Monkey

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    I always thought the Demo9 was the perfect Whistler bike, until I got my hands on a Demo8. There are not many bikes out there that will handle better in the roots and rocks found on Garbo. + you can't beat the lifetime warranty and one of the stiffest rear ends around. Is it just me, or was there more Demo's at Whistler last year, than any other bike?
     
  6. PatBranch

    PatBranch Turbo Monkey

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    I saw mostly Konas there last summer. I personnaly would rather have a 7point. It seems a little more agile and has enought travel for me. I really don't need 8+" of travel.

    Have you ridden them? You may think you like one better, but if you ride them, that might even completely change your pre ride thoughts. Your spending this much money, might as well try before you buy.
     
  7. TheInedibleHulk

    TheInedibleHulk Turbo Monkey

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    The Specialized is a much higher quality bike. Both designs are legit, but the specialized wins just on initial quality and reliability.
     
  8. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    The main quality control issues im referring to are the following: I prodealt an 05' yakuza kamichu from ironhorse. Transaction went smoothly, i was pleased as pie. The bike arrives. I am stoked. I unpack the bike.

    WTF is this? The axle is seized in the fork, paint is all FUBAR'd and scratched to hell, and the front brake master cylinder bleed plug has been ripped out, and is sitting in the bottom of the box in a puddle of brake fluid. Im a little irritated at this point, but hey, i just got the bike for an EP price, so i can't really complain. So i call ironhorse customer service, and explain my situation. The dude that answers is a total douche. He tells me that the brakes are not ironhorse's problem, neither is the paint, or the seized axle. Call me crazy, but i kind of doubt that Hayes sent a person down to ironhorse's factory to put the brakes on that bike, and ya know the brakes got FUBAR'd by ironhorse, cause the brake bits are laying in the bottom of the damn box. I am now pissed, if i had known i was going to EP a screwed up bike, i would have bought one from supergo for 1400.

    SECOND REASON. My shop gets a MKIII in as a repair/fix. This bike has just come directly from our corporate office, where it was given as a demo bike to some higher-up. 1st issue with the bike. Some brillliant person at ironhorse has installed the spacers to run a 68 mm BB shell width on the BB cups, even though the shell is a 73 mm shell. The result is a crank that will not tighten properly, and makes a horrible creaking sound. Second issue. The DW link on the bike has been designed with so little clearance that if you move the front derailleur limit low enough for the chain to drop to the first ring, the derailleur now hits the lower suspension link and causes a huge gouge to happen. Basically, the bike was never quality checked and it really shows. So i call ironhorse again. I am informed that i " must be doing something wrong because the bike works fine" I am a mechanic with over 3 years experience, and i have never seen quality control that was this bad before. So as i was saying, dont buy an ironhorse unless it is from a shop. I would welcome any feedback from DW or anyone at ironhorse, but i can never seem to get ahold of anyone that is helpful.:help:

    Ok, in ironhorse's defense now, once i got my yakuza straitened out, the bike is phenomenal. Its a little heavy, but change out the front fork and its a real downhill beast. For my first downhill rig, i feel it was an excellent bike, great performance, unfortunately it is just a little to small and heavy for me now.
     
  9. wysiwyg

    wysiwyg Monkey

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    from now on all bike vs bike arguements shall be concluded thus.
     
  10. dhmtbj

    dhmtbj Monkey

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    I think the 7.7 is far more reasonable an will be more fun for the riding you want to do. The demos are DH bikes. If you are going to be riding some trails, the 7.7 will handle this better than the demo 8. The 7.7 will also do pretty well for DH riding.
     
  11. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    There's always a lot of things that they screw up, chainstays not strong enough, shock hardware wrong, excessive stack height, wrong valving for the shocks, we found the alignment off on an sgs pro fr bike, crappy spec (manitou shock with bushings that don't last a darn, IH's admission), etc.

    They're a company trying to do good, but I think more than others they fall prey to the fact that their bikes are produced overseas, and that creates a lot of these problems. With the IH bikes that we've dealt with in the shop, plus my own and my friends, it seems that IH has more of these problems than other manufacturers. I'd be interested to get one of their "made in the usa" bikes and have a significant amount of time on it, to see how they compare.
     
  12. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    I think it's funny that when compared to a 7" bike the Demo is only for DH but when compared to a DH bike it's no good at downhill, it's a damn FR bike.

    I own a Demo 8 and often take it on long, epic rides. I ride 15 mile loops on it with 38x12-25 gearing. Hard? Yes. Do-able? Yes. I don't really like the 7Point series. My buddy has one and it doesn't "feel" right when you ride it. His is a 15" and it came way undersprung in the rear. That might contribute to the weird ride but it seems like IH would match the front and rear suspension.
     
  13. slang

    slang Monkey

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    have you considered an sx-trail?
     
  14. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    I would ride one of those for FR over a 7Point in a heartbeat.

    I guess you should figure out what you're doing most.

    Are you DJing and riding tech FR stuff?

    Or are you riding rough terrain and big lines?

    Either way I would go for a Specialized over an IH because of the superior quality and lifetime warranty.
     
  15. afromandookie

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    Yes I have ridden my friends demo but not a 7 point 7. I really like the plushness you get from the dhx and Ive rode a 2004 demo 9 pro but that was a little heaver and seemed to not pedal not as well.
    also what is stack hight, I'm kind of a beginner
    I dont do DJing becides on Aline when I go to Whistler.
    I want to start doing good sized drops and love riding rough stuff when there is some.
     
  16. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    It sounds like you need a Demo 8. Stack height is how tall the headtube is, which determines your bar height.
     
  17. TheInedibleHulk

    TheInedibleHulk Turbo Monkey

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    My recommendation from what youre saying would be to get the demo, swap the 888 out for a boxxer team (should be able to break even cost wise), and maybe do a few other small changes to drop weight. The demo pedals pretty well and people have set them up for freeride before. As for dirt jumping, just get a cheap hardtail DJ for that (P2, porter, whatever). If you can spend 3500 on a big bike I suspect you can scrape 700 together for a hardtail. Or get a used one for like 300 for that matter. Dirt jumping on a hardtail is much easier and will go a long way to developing your precision and just general bike handling. If you really only want one bike, I would look at the SX Trail.
     
  18. afromandookie

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    Alright thanks to all that helped me decide. :)I'm going with the demo. I'm sure I will love it.:love:
     
  19. monke880

    monke880 Chimp

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    Good call. Demos are awesome.
     
  20. seismic

    seismic Turbo Monkey

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    Of those two bikes get the D8 !
     
  21. kona_rider

    kona_rider Chimp

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    go with the demo 8 its a sweet bike
     
  22. sbabuser

    sbabuser Turbo Monkey

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    If you're pedalling at all, my vote is 7 Point - killer bike. Mine did have some shock hardware issues, but once that was taken care of, it was solid. I don't believe that Specialized has never had any issues out of the box. How many broken Enduros have there been? How many fkd up Swingers showed up on Demos?
    But if you're riding mainly dh, the Demo is probably the better choice - adjustable geometry and slacker angles even in the steeper settings.
     
  23. Netguy

    Netguy Monkey

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    I second that. The SX Trail is a sick bike. For me, its my everything bike, except for Whistler. However, with that being said, I am excited to take it down Aline and DM this year.
     
  24. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    You have obviously never looked at a 7POINT. There are a lot of valid points that a person could make to support either bike one way or another, but this is not one. Both the 7POINT and Demo 8 are built in Taiwan, within minutes of each other, and using materials, and forgings built by many of the exact same suppliers.

    Dave
     
  25. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    I canagree with some of your points, but I hardly think that some of them are really valid, I mean, chainstays not strong enough? Maybe on a 2003 SGS for some people, that bike was designed in 2001! Five years later, and a LOT of things have changed. I can verify for a fact that there have been ZERO chainstay breaks on Sundays or 7POINTS,and one that I know of on Yakuzas that were rental bikes at Diablo. Those are real numbers.

    Excessive stack height? The Sunday was the FIRST bike that was designed arong the e13 reducing headset, and paved the way for low stack heights on DH bikes. Look at how many use them now, 3 years after the Sunday prototypes showed up at the NORBAs with the design.

    I totally agree that Iron Horse has been the victim of circumstance. Its a part of manufacturing anywhere. All companies deal with it, and I can tell you for certain that Iron Horse is not alone. How many people broke links on Giant DH bikes? How many people broke the seat mast off FSR DH bikes? How many people cracked their XXXX botique brand bikes? How many people bent shock pins on their <insert brand here> bikes? Cracked top links on the most popular trail bike of the last 4 years? Yup, almost all of them. These things do happen, despite the best efforts of many people at many different companies. Its part of life and doing business, but the responsible companiese (Like Iron Horse) dont try to cover it up. They get the word out there, and make sure the riders are taken care of. That is why there are so many rabidly loyal IH riders. They know that the company has their back, and takes responsibilities for any issue, regardless of whether its a design or supplier issue. Customer service is paramount.

    Actually I am in Taiwan right now. This has been a special trip. I am bringing our new team of manufacturing engineers to meet our suppliers in Asia. With 90 years of bicycle manufacturing experience in Asia, they will be the eyes and ears on the ground in Asia. Quality will improve, and you will see even better product from Iron Horse, K2, and Columbia. I know that everyone involved is really excited about it, becuase it will make communication a lot easier and more accurate.

    I'll fill you in on one thing. USA suppliers? Iron Horse builds frames with the best of them, but if you think that the metal parts that ALL of them use are not sourced overseas, you are mistaken. There are not many bicycles in the world without Taiwan or China built parts of some type. Taiwan is the metal forming capital of the world. They do it BETTER than anyone. The infrastructure is set up for it, and they do the volume and complexity needed to satisfy the most demanding customers. Boeing, Airbus, and bike companies worldwide figured this out years ago. Just an FYI about the way things work.

    Anyways, sorry to derail this thread. I say go ride the bikes to help make a decision. I think both are good bikes personally, but the real decision comes up to the rider. Whatever rides better for you is the right bike.

    Until next time

    Dave
     
  26. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    Dave - what about the customer service issues though?
     
  27. biggins

    biggins Rump Junkie

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    i have ridden both and demos just give me a boner. however i have dealt with service through both companies as a consumer and i would say that Iron Horse always does me right and they do it damn quickly as well. The 7 series feels awesome and i am hoping it will be my next bike.
     
  28. biggins

    biggins Rump Junkie

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    i also must say that the iron horse bikes i owned were all top notch quality even the lower end models.
     
  29. MOTODH

    MOTODH Turbo Monkey

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    I've had nothing but great experiences, they take good care of ya:thumb:
     
  30. sama1ter

    sama1ter Monkey

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    i bought my SX Trail about 2 months before i went up to Whistler for 3 weeks last summer. It killed. If youre not really doing ALL dh, and still doing some trails, i HIGHLY recommend the SX. Such a fun bike, for everything from garbonzo to aline to the boneyard. I broke the Chainstay on the wallride on the last day(thank god), and had no problems with warrenty from Specialized.
     
  31. Heavy C

    Heavy C Chimp

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  32. biggins

    biggins Rump Junkie

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  33. slang

    slang Monkey

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  34. afromandookie

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    The other factor that was going to help me decide was the parts in the 7point7. For 3 and a half g's it dosent seem like I get as many good parts on the demo as the 7point for only 2 and a half g's.
     
  35. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    I definately know how you feel. :)
     
  36. biggins

    biggins Rump Junkie

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  37. Heavy C

    Heavy C Chimp

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  38. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Yeah, but then why does the Demo utilize way more tube manipulation than that on a 7point?

    Anyways, just because Vertical is built minutes from a boutique bike by a similar manufacturer doesn't put it in the same league.
     
  39. ska todd

    ska todd Turbo Monkey

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    Iron Horse is going thru a bit of a growth stage right now. We have literally doubled in sales as a company in the last 18 mos. Growth like this has necesitated bringing on a lot more staff including 3 new customer service reps, 10+ outside reps, 3 inside sales additional product dept staff, etc, etc. As Iron Horse continues to grow we will be confronted with new challenges and will do our best to step up to the plate.

    -ska todd
     
  40. Daver

    Daver Monkey

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    Yes, but obviously theres an issue when every single 06 IH bike i have felt on shop floors (not to mention at the races) has play in the rear end. I can deal with it on a first year frame, but this stuff should have been sorted out by the factory, before the bikes were packaged and delivered to customers.

    I loved the ride of my Sunday, it was amazing. But having to make up our own hardware because the ones that came stock (not to mention the ones that were sent out as replacements) still left us with the same up/down and side to side play as before is very disconcerting.

    The IH customer service (here in australia at least) is good (if you can get your timing right so Kevin actually answers), but the fact that the bikes are not coming out in perfect working order is enough for several shops that i know and frequent to drop the entire marque.

    However- the hardware issue had no bearing in me selling my Sunday, and had i not been offered a better (in my opinion) bike for the same money then i would still be riding (and loving) it. It's just sad that the bikes are earning themselves a bad reputation for reliability when they are substantially better than just about every other DH bike on the market.