[bullcrew]

So I understand how both work and looked into both...
What I'm looking for is other people's thoughts to see if I'm missing anything (things I overlooked)

which one seems to be the better choice and why..

Anyone who has used either for review

And thoughts on their claims, I like the fact Diaz shows a curve like a spring and I tend to lean more toward it acting like a linear curve vs vorsprung...
I see vorsprung being good at all bump but also see that reservoir hanging off fork...granted they have a great warranty apparently...

I am not opposed to either.... I will get one

I run higher psi which normally might make it harsher than normal but my weight counteracts it pretty effectively...mid speed or braking In a berm with bumps I dont want dive so mid speed is good....bottom out seems like a natural occurance with air spring anywase as it ramps ..

 

[djjohnr]

The "How does the Secus Work" section of this article gives a decent description of what you can expect - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-vorsprung-secus-air-spring-upgrade.html

Some pros/cons

- Secus's larger negative spring should give you more beginning stroke compliance
- Diaz gives you more adjustment capability
- Secus also reduces pressure build up in the lowers
- Diaz is much easier to install, and doesn't require extra wrenching every time you want to change travel
- Secus is self equalizing
- Diaz isn't at risk of getting smashed by a rock

 

[djjohnr]

If you don't care about weight, and they have a spring rate for your weight, skip both and get the Vorsprung Smashpot coil kit.

 

[englertracing]

I'm not sure I understand how a secus works
It's got a midstroke valve performing some type of wizardry. But I don't know what kind of wizzardry....

 

[HAB]

I'm not sure I understand how a secus works
It's got a midstroke valve performing some type of wizardry. But I don't know what kind of wizzardry....

It's covered in here:

Vorsprung Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Review | Blister

We've now tested the Secus in three different forks and it has continued to impress. | Vorsprung Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade

blisterreview.com

 

[bullcrew]

I don't mind tinkering to get something dialed...I do worry about it hanging low...but they apparently have a bomb proof warranty ....

I'll give that a good read...yeah they both seem to overlap a but but go in a bit different directions....

Was thinking that possibly a vorsprung piston for larger neg chamber, do the fulfill so the 2017 36 air side will work with runt and separate the chambers...I haven't played with my stock piston in the 2017 or MRP yet so I'm not sure what's effected .

But thinking is vorsprung piston allowed more negative air side...fullfil will allow me to bump it a bit up past positive side (so now larger and a smidge additional neg psi)
Runt on top to handle the direction they went with linear and mid speed....

Just a thought I already have MRP coming (they messed up till be here Monday)...so I would have to do this to allow the runt to work anywase...

Just a thought...ideas for direction...

 

[mykel]

Had (have) a RUNT for my Yarilanche. (150mm)

My old Mattoc was upgraded with the IRT airspring and I was very happy with it, so when I built the new bike, I started with a take-off Yari as it is the same as the Lyric except for the damper. I put an Avy cartridge in and thought I would try the RUNT.

It was better in all ways over the stock airspring (B1) with one glaring exception; at least for me. I am very sensitive to air spring ramp-up, and I found that deep into the travel the rebound would kick back harder than when stock which I still found slightly kicky. (Hey I'm a coil guy if at all possible) If I would adjust rebound for deep hits, it was too slow for small and mid-size. I could not get it to a happy medium and was never happy.

Now have a Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion and with the Avy cartridge I just forget about the fork. It does what I want when I want with no weird shenanigans anywhere.

Anybody want a RUNT for a 150mm Lyric / Yari?

 

[djjohnr]

Anybody want a RUNT for a 150mm Lyric / Yari?

I didn't realize those were travel specific

 

[mykel]

I didn't realize those were travel specific

Apparently they are, at least according to Diaz.
Not sure what the differences are as I have never seen any side by side.
My guess - length and volume?

 

[Westy]

If you don't care about weight, and they have a spring rate for your weight, skip both and get the Vorsprung Smashpot coil kit.

This.

If you don't like how an air spring feels why keep fucking with an air spring?

 

[bullcrew]

Apparently they are, at least according to Diaz.
Not sure what the differences are as I have never seen any side by side.
My guess - length and volume?

I couldn't remember which one was too but one is size specific and another has a interchangeable piston

 

[bullcrew]

This.

If you don't like how an air spring feels why keep fucking with an air spring?

Because we are guys...it's what we do....wall "BAM" wall "BAM" wall "BAM"...door "let's go"

 

[HAB]

I couldn't remember which one was too but one is size specific and another has a interchangeable piston

Secus is the same canister for all the fork versions. The only difference is the foot stud, which does change depending on fork model.

 

[djjohnr]

Secus is the same canister for all the fork versions. The only difference is the foot stud, which does change depending on fork model.

If your fork uses different air springs to change travel, you do need to swap the footstud to each air spring, which involves hitting it with the heat gun until the red loctite gives. You should probably remove the o-rings when you do that so you don't melt them, but if you damage them removing them you may find yourself with a rigid fork. If you're changing travel a bunch to dial in a new bike it can be a PITA.

 

[StiHacka]

Which one makes OTBs less painful? Asking for a friend.

 

[HAB]

If your fork uses different air springs to change travel, you do need to swap the footstud to each air spring, which involves hitting it with the heat gun until the red loctite gives. You should probably remove the o-rings when you do that so you don't melt them, but if you damage them removing them you may find yourself with a rigid fork. If you're changing travel a bunch to dial in a new bike it can be a PITA.

True, but I doubt most people are changing travel back and forth that much. And if you are, you could always just get a second foot stud.

 

[bullcrew]

Got off the phone with Anthony at Diaz just now

Runt is displacement based , so based on travel will dictate size of cartridge for 140, 150,160 and so on.....it effects low speed and mid support so adjusting compression will be needed and psi will dictate how it acts...
The runt takes curve and goes linear so you set adjustments more like a spring and can stiffen it up almost infinitely via psi...then tune to accommodate it

Vorsprung will allow it to not be so supported In mid and wallow a bit due to enlarged negative them you add more psi to counteract it...

Adding it to a 180 2017 fox 36 with fulfill to get the air rod out of the wayay not work. Apparently there is a bit different diameter and ontop of that the piston on air side may make contact with runt need to measure depth of it....

Zeb uses auch larger air chamber and 38mm stanchions so he recommended zeb of 38 should I upgrade withy weight . Apparently fox 38 uses a 34mm air chamber which is significantly smaller than zeb...

I think I have relayed all this as I was told...if I missed or off let me know


Did get my MRP ramp D with fulfill in so I will still go that route with the older 36.

 

[bullcrew]

Couldn't see what was sticking in first 10mmof air side...no deformation, no rubbing or discoloration..

Did get the mrp installed and the negative set up it is smoother right off the bat...easier to compress and cleaner...less grabby.

 

[bullcrew]

What's the thoughts on upgraded older air vs new air side
MRP fulfill set up on 2017
Vs
2020 evol setup

I know apparently the fulfill is a upgrade to the stock air setup on a 2017, but how does it compare to the new Evol set up...

 

[DaveW]

I've not been massively happy with the 36 that came on my Orbea Rise, harsh stictiony meh.
I've got a Secus that I'll fit this week and hopefully the bushing reams for the shop turn up in the next few weeks so I'll do those as well.

 

[Westy]

I've not been massively happy with the 36 that came on my Orbea Rise, harsh stictiony meh.
I've got a Secus that I'll fit this week and hopefully the bushing reams for the shop turn up in the next few weeks so I'll do those as well.

Have you checked the negative chamber to make sure it isn't full of grease?

 

[DaveW]

Yep checked that last night after I shut up shop, lil bit of excess but not a massive amount.
But with the air dumped out and cycling it by hand there's a noticeable level of stiction that my Lyric's don't have.
But yeah I'll throw the forks at Luke (workshop manager) to play with & see what he can do this coming week.

 

[bullcrew]

When I had mine apart it's initial start has a break away point then it's smooth, even at that point like it never was stuck there.....when I had it apart there is NO point at which it replicates normal...so I cycled it and even checked inside stanchion...flawless...
I did put a light and watched the reflection there's no distortion the line is flawless as well...
The piston looks fine no weird wear no funky grease...

When I re slick honey'd it it has a momentary start spot that acts like it's stuck first thing in morning. but it is smaller for sure so I have no idea..
After the first cycle and push past the immediate spot it doesn't so it again..total butter even there..
.

 

[englertracing]

If your going to be using separate positive and negative.

Float fluid instead of grease

 

[bullcrew]

I've not been massively happy with the 36 that came on my Orbea Rise, harsh stictiony meh.
I've got a Secus that I'll fit this week and hopefully the bushing reams for the shop turn up in the next few weeks so I'll do those as well.

I want to hear your thoughts on it...if you don't mind post up....

 

[djjohnr]

The '22 36 on my Bronson feels as smooth as my Lyriks/Boxxer

 

[bullcrew]

If your going to be using separate positive and negative.

Float fluid instead of grease

Fox fork oil?

 

[bullcrew]

The '22 36 on my Bronson feels as smooth as my Lyriks/Boxxer

My 2020 is butter...I just want it more butter!!!

My 2017 is decent but can get a bit butter then it is...

 

[englertracing]

Fox fork oil?

No in the air spring.

 

[bullcrew]

No in the air spring.

I knew air side I assumed you meant fork oil...I'll have to look and see what float fluid is.. I used slik honey on it...

Saw what float fluid is looks to be a blue version of slik honey...I'll grab some for the box....

Also is there supposed to be a bit of oil in air side lowers? Forks never been apart and there was a tiny amount in there

 

[Jm_]

Yep checked that last night after I shut up shop, lil bit of excess but not a massive amount.
But with the air dumped out and cycling it by hand there's a noticeable level of stiction that my Lyric's don't have.
But yeah I'll throw the forks at Luke (workshop manager) to play with & see what he can do this coming week.

Yeah, my Lyrik is extremely smooth up and down. Has something to do with the bushing knock I think.

 

[englertracing]

I knew air side I assumed you meant fork oil...I'll have to look and see what float fluid is.. I used slik honey on it...

Saw what float fluid is looks to be a blue version of slik honey...I'll grab some for the box....

Also is there supposed to be a bit of oil in air side lowers? Forks never been apart and there was a tiny amount in there

Float fluid is oil,
Don't have to use that 20w gold will work too.
But float fluid is also used in air cans.

2018 Bath Oil Volume Chart | Bike Help Center | FOX

www.ridefox.com

 

[bullcrew]

Gonna try and see what it's doing on the 2020ill do the 2017 this week then see about getting a Diaz and see what it does...same run. I'll try and get a screen tie in speed etc so it can match and I'll make sure to get the psi dialed in all at 90 then 100 and then what works best and settings

 

[bullcrew]

Well shit...started off with another puncture right through the center of tread...

Did manage to get a little movement and see what's going on..

This was a test ride for go pro and dial the 36...I did realize the GoPro makes me want to fly.thrm anxiousness sets in...this ride wasn't about that...it was rocks rocks small drops and more rocks to see how the suspension is doing and how the angle is on camera..there a couple small bugs to work out...