I've read a lot Stinky (and Coiler) hating, while Dirt Bags are praised. Are they not pretty much the same frame(s)?
Dirtbag/Stinky - Dif?
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except that dirtbags are built by a small, rider owned company, who are not part of a multi-national corporation. Oh, and the quality of dirtbags is alot higher.
First, I want to say I own a transition and a kona, and love both of them.
This exact thing I have been wondering for a couple years. I have ridden a stinky and dirtbag back to back, and could not tell a difference. The look the same, the wieghts are very similar, the linkages are the same etc. I think the kona actually uses a higher grade aluminum (7005) compared to the dirtbags 6061, but I am not sure. For the price, it is hard to beat a kona though.
I think the hating/praising comes from the companies, one being a small NW local company and one being a multinational comapany. Just remeber, everyone started out small. I think transition deserves all the praise they are recieving, and kona deserves little of the hate they recieve.
This exact thing I have been wondering for a couple years. I have ridden a stinky and dirtbag back to back, and could not tell a difference. The look the same, the wieghts are very similar, the linkages are the same etc. I think the kona actually uses a higher grade aluminum (7005) compared to the dirtbags 6061, but I am not sure. For the price, it is hard to beat a kona though.
I think the hating/praising comes from the companies, one being a small NW local company and one being a multinational comapany. Just remeber, everyone started out small. I think transition deserves all the praise they are recieving, and kona deserves little of the hate they recieve.
its allllll in the cable routing.... dirtbag cables are routed on top of the top tube.... kona's are under... or somewheres else....
dirtbag is bestest tho
dirtbag is bestest tho
call kona and tell them they dont ride
heh good point.... kona is a very good company to deal with, great customer service and great product.... you really cant go wrong either way
"its allllll in the cable routing.... dirtbag cables are routed on top of the top tube.... kona's are under... or somewheres else...."
Hmmm.......
(I know, the newer ones are routed under the top tube.)
Hmmm.......
(I know, the newer ones are routed under the top tube.)
Ig to my dirtbag second-hand, and I came straight off of a coiler frame. I would've gotten a stinky if I had the chance, but the dirtbag was cheaper and had a romic (at the time. . . and I thought it was better than the kona offering for the same price).
The times I've had to deal with transition for little parts and stuff were probably some of the most satisfying customer service experiences I've ever gone through. You talk to the owners and they personally hook you up. They're really nice and helpful guys. They know their stuff, too!
Hell, I even got a christmas card from the guys. Awesome!
The times I've had to deal with transition for little parts and stuff were probably some of the most satisfying customer service experiences I've ever gone through. You talk to the owners and they personally hook you up. They're really nice and helpful guys. They know their stuff, too!
Hell, I even got a christmas card from the guys. Awesome!
Yeah, Kona didn't send me a xmas card either, but Transition sure did
Oh yeah, the new Dirtbag the cables route under the top tube.
Oh yeah, the new Dirtbag the cables route under the top tube.
sexy bikeYeah, Kona didn't send me a xmas card either, but Transition sure did
Oh yeah, the new Dirtbag the cables route under the top tube.
just noticed - the dirtbag has chainguide mounts, Kona doesn't.
I recently moved - that's the only explanation I can think of for my Kona Christmas card to have not arrived yet.
I recently moved - that's the only explanation I can think of for my Kona Christmas card to have not arrived yet.
Damn I have two a Dirtbag and a ToP and I never got a damn xmas card. I am buying Kona from now on.
^^^someone obviously didnt get the mild humor in this thread. okay good way to explain why you get transition over kona. transition=quality, hand built, well made frames. kona=the walmart bikes of the bike industry, machine built, and well there design is nothing to shake a stick at.
There designs are pretty much the same (at least concerning the dirt bag). Have you ever owned a kona and know first hand why they are "so bad"? If anything, specialized is way more the "walmart bikes of the bike industry". Oh, and by the way, both companies frames are made in china (or taiwan).
Kona started out as a three man company and grew from there because they provided such a nice product.
well i guess you could say that, but atleast specilized has acctually help evolve the sport. unlike kona who has just sat in the background and copied designs and changed a few things. ohh and keep in mind that the dirtbag and kona might look similar but due to patons and legality of things im pretty sure that well there not.
I could be way off the bat on this one, but I'm pretty sure that the this style of a 4 bar linkage was not patented, or as in the case of fsr (norco/specialized/azonic/khs/sinister.....), more than one company runs it. I think it may be one of those "free linkages" like a true single pivot. Again, I could be wrong though.
Umm yeah, both frames are made in Tawian....This reminds me of pinkbike where people fight over bike brands.
Having just bought a Transition.....and never having owned a Kona other than a 98 Explosif.....
The comments about Transition being handmade in comparison to the Kona? Are you people on crack? Overseas Taiwan labor build 'em, possibly in some of the same factories.
Yeah, they are a cool, small company. I e-mailed them with a few questions before buying my Covert frame, and they got back to me very quickly with answers. Then again, I've mailed Kona about stuff a few times, and so have they.
Ride what you like, what you can get, what you can afford, what fits, whatever you can test ride if possible and don't worry so much about the name on the downtube.
The comments about Transition being handmade in comparison to the Kona? Are you people on crack? Overseas Taiwan labor build 'em, possibly in some of the same factories.
Yeah, they are a cool, small company. I e-mailed them with a few questions before buying my Covert frame, and they got back to me very quickly with answers. Then again, I've mailed Kona about stuff a few times, and so have they.
Ride what you like, what you can get, what you can afford, what fits, whatever you can test ride if possible and don't worry so much about the name on the downtube.
^^^^ you make a good point but I would have to go with transition because as stated before they send out xmas cards.
ok so homie at the top of the page sad kona has no helped the sport progress. are you joking? they are the biggest supporter of bike parks out there. trying to get as many people on legit downhill bikes as possible. they got a bad rep i think cause they had a crazy cheap freeride bike (stinky) that alot of people coming into the sport could buy. transtion is badass for sure, but i think we are all just talking about image here. not product
99% of my brand loyalty comes from the name of the bike. I mean, you are what you ride, right? I've chosen to be stinky rather than a dirtbag. One could argue the semantics, I suppose.
The other 1% comes from Christmas card receival.
The other 1% comes from Christmas card receival.
frznomad, you either are totally oblivious to everything, or have something against kona. No single bike company has promoted the sport as much as Kona. They are the sponsor and bike supplier for more bike parks than any other brand. They also give out 15, $1000 grants to organizations that do legit trail work. As for saying that Kona is not original with their bike design, they may not have engineered the faux-bar linkage, but comparing their design to the likes of Transition and saying Kona copied them is outrageous. The guys at Kona have been making the Stinky since Kyle and Kevin were pimple-faced members of the chess team in high-school (sorry guys, just a shot in the dark?). Kona started out, just as Transition is now, with 3 guys, and their roots in the NW (actually about 10min from Transition). Ten years down the road Transition will be just as big and successful as Kona is now. I am not saying that Transition doesn't deserve props (thier BR is a one of a kind bike, and is doing tons to push the sport), but you cannot feed people this bull**** of how they produce such a higher quality product. Kona has party been marred by the fact that they sell their base level freerider at $1999 retail (talk about promoting the sport by getting newbs on bike that can actually take the abuse they are being dished), so people automatically think that no product of Kona is worth while.
And while I am at it, dont get so high and mighty thinking your Specialized is one of a kind. They didn't by and means invent the FSR suspension design.
Go do some homework before you make absurd accusations.
In the end, having ridden and liked both, the decision should come down to what you can get a better deal on. If you are looking for just a frame, go Dirtbag, if you are looking for a complete bike in the $1500 range, go stinky. A Stinky frame can be had with parts (some bad, alot good) for only about $600 more that a Dirtbag frame. If you are looking for a $2000-$3000 bike complete, I would say a Stinky Dee and a DB are neck in neck. Personally, I would go for the Stinky, I've loved all of mine.
And while I am at it, dont get so high and mighty thinking your Specialized is one of a kind. They didn't by and means invent the FSR suspension design.
Go do some homework before you make absurd accusations.
In the end, having ridden and liked both, the decision should come down to what you can get a better deal on. If you are looking for just a frame, go Dirtbag, if you are looking for a complete bike in the $1500 range, go stinky. A Stinky frame can be had with parts (some bad, alot good) for only about $600 more that a Dirtbag frame. If you are looking for a $2000-$3000 bike complete, I would say a Stinky Dee and a DB are neck in neck. Personally, I would go for the Stinky, I've loved all of mine.
I never had an issue with my Kona Stinky...it was my first Freeride bike and did everything I was skilled enough to try. When I did look at a Transition the build quality was very nice, and yet the guy who purchased it has already moved on much in the way I have moved on from my Kona. I like them both.
owned both and like them both, but i wanted something not kona and the price for me was about the same, and i don't like the new stinky design, the CS are too long, the 05 was under consideration though. like people saide they are both good bikes, honestly i think the DB is built slightly tougher but that is just cause i haven't heard of anyone really breaking them yet...but how often do you hear of stinky's breaking either? again it really comes down to what you want to ride and the geo of course will be slightly different.
also there is the versus blitz and yada yada...lots of bikes use the design
best advice i have, as always, TEST RIDE BEFORE YOU BUY!!!
also there is the versus blitz and yada yada...lots of bikes use the design
best advice i have, as always, TEST RIDE BEFORE YOU BUY!!!
norco liscences from specialized, not sure about the others
Everyone licenses it from specialized. They hold the patent, most bikes will have a sticker that says "Patented Specialized FSR blah blah blah" My Iron Horse SGS did at least...
gotta represent the PNW
Exactly, they are both made in taiwan, not hand made!
transition uses bearings at every pivot, while kona uses bushings on the pivot between rear seat stay and rear chain stays. i dont think that matters very much though.
Take each for a spin, both good brands, you aren't going to 'go wrong' either way unless you buy the one you're less comfortable with.
That having been said, I'd lean towards Kona, but I haven't ridden the Stinky.
That having been said, I'd lean towards Kona, but I haven't ridden the Stinky.
Actually it does, it makes it feel smoother. I've owned a Stinky, and
two Dirtbags, and they feel VERY similar. The Dirtbag is a little more
burly and stiffer than the Stinky though, and just looks better imo.
Can't beat Transition's customer service either.
They are both good bikes though. It's not like the Stinky would hold
you back or anything...it's a very capable bike as well.
Meh, we already know whats in this thread, but you know we had to read it. Single pivot, single pivot. Ive owned a bunch of em, so not hatin'.
Transition has the momentium, Kona not so much.
Transition has the momentium, Kona not so much.
I guess that's my point. Perception is reality, but at the end of the day, it's still just perception.
In the interest of full disclosure: I recently sold my Stinky and bought a Bottlerocket, and I'm glad I did. I loved my Kona and had no issues with the company per se, I just wanted something a little lighter and more manueverable. I'm down with both Transition and Kona.
In the interest of full disclosure: I recently sold my Stinky and bought a Bottlerocket, and I'm glad I did. I loved my Kona and had no issues with the company per se, I just wanted something a little lighter and more manueverable. I'm down with both Transition and Kona.
whats funny is..
Kona is in Ferndale Washington
Transition is in..yup, Ferndale Washington
Kona is in Ferndale Washington
Transition is in..yup, Ferndale Washington
haha, you are right. all of Kona's and Transitions are single pivot bikes. with just huge shock linkages. NOT FSR, so no need to pay anyone's patent.
as is the Sinister R9.
... if the 4bar has a pivot above the rear axle, on the seat stay. its a single pivot. if its on the chainstay, its considered a horst link design.
i know ill get bashed for this b/c freeriding is soooo anti big corporation and pro "rider owned" but i ride a trek session 77 frame, same style as the kona and dirtbag. i dont know the geometry differences but in terms of durability (sealed bearing size) and strength (full hydroformed top tube), trek has them both beat hands down. not to mention trek's warrenty and company history runs full circles around both of those companys. i do think they have a bunch of moe-rons working in their tech dept. but no company is perfect.
i have ridden a stinky before but not a dirt bag. i do think the trek is more "efficient" pedal wise than the kona but the kona also had a dc fork and my trek is set up sc so who knows.
i have ridden a stinky before but not a dirt bag. i do think the trek is more "efficient" pedal wise than the kona but the kona also had a dc fork and my trek is set up sc so who knows.
thanks sac, beat me to it...
both companies are in my backyard
(ie: less than 20 minutes drive gets me to the HQ for either!)
both companies are in my backyard
(ie: less than 20 minutes drive gets me to the HQ for either!)
I have an '06 Coiler Deluxe with a 150mm 66 on it, and an '06 Dirtbag with a Jr T on it: they both feel virtually the same as far as frame stiffness goes, but the Coiler D is more nimble and a better pedaler (with 6lbs less weight, a DHX 4.0 and a single crown) while the DB has the added burl of the dual crown fork, bigger tires and an all-around heavy and confidence inspiring build...is one better? Not really, either could be built as the other is and serve the same purpose, though I think the DB's frame is heavier. Both great bikes and money well-spent.
Just buy a Stinky and shut up! 
Who cares if we are supporting the man when we buy a bike! In one way or another we all walk to the beat of the same drummer, save yourself some money buy kona and spend you savings on expensive ass gas like the rest of us. If you dont want to support the man buy a Dirtbag and then ride it to the trail head!
Anything underground and not owned by the man is always dubbed "COOL" but even cool gets old I don't ride either one but the whole smack talking thing about what bike you ride or who owned your bike or what you dady bought you is what tares MTB community's appart. We all ride the same trails...
Who cares if we are supporting the man when we buy a bike! In one way or another we all walk to the beat of the same drummer, save yourself some money buy kona and spend you savings on expensive ass gas like the rest of us. If you dont want to support the man buy a Dirtbag and then ride it to the trail head!
Anything underground and not owned by the man is always dubbed "COOL" but even cool gets old I don't ride either one but the whole smack talking thing about what bike you ride or who owned your bike or what you dady bought you is what tares MTB community's appart. We all ride the same trails...