Hey, I am running a 07 Demo and looking to getting either a Cane Creek Double Barrel, or an Avy (DHS, Chubbie, etc...) Who owns them and what is better for both DH and FR? So help me out in anyway possible!
Double Barrel vs Avy
- Thread starter Demo_rider
- Start date
All I'm gonna say is that the double barrel was created using the Demo as a testbed. The DB and a demo frame is a phenomenal ride.
Avy's are for old East coast huckers. If you consider your riding style kind of "Old East Coast Huckerish", the Avy will be perfect.
Avy will never let you down no matter what you throw at it. It is very dependable.
What if you throw an old East coast hucker at it? And what if he's really fat?
What makes the avy a huck shock exactly?
How is it different to a roco or dhx, they are all shimmed dampers with a floating IFP?
Explain yourself, otherwise quit being a twot.
(not that Mikes stupid)
Nah, the avy runs a huck damper with a floating huck.
It's also heavier - but huckers don't care about that sort of thing.
:biggrin:
Not by much, weight is centralized in your frame and makes little difference, shock is custom shimmed and has hi/low speed adjustment unlike roco and dhx == the win IMO. Its no more of a huck shock then a demo 8 is a huck frame
If crag made an aluminum shaft shaft instead of the steel one it would be almost the same weight as a DHX or roco. Im keen to try the double barrel, might get one for my next frame even though they do weigh more then the avy.
Because it doesn't blow up.
First off, I don't go friggin massive, I want something more suitable for technical downhill and resort type stuff. Also, I'm 5'9-10"ish and about 160lbs with gear, if that makes a big difference...So I doubt I will be blowing up anything.
Get a Revox.:biggrin:
I can only speak on the Avalanche DHS which I've owned and ridden for about 5 years. You can have it valved for hucking if that's your thing but also to be a super responsive DH shock which is how mine is now set up.
I highly reccommend having the sepperate High and low speed adjuster installed. I have a loooong thread on the subject of how and why they work to your advantage.
Avalanches are downhill racing shocks and are incredibly responsive to the terrain when you are pinning it. The slow parking lot feeling is only there during low shaft speeds. Once bumps start coming fast, the valving opens up and works like no other shock I've ridden.Complete control.
I highly reccommend having the sepperate High and low speed adjuster installed. I have a loooong thread on the subject of how and why they work to your advantage.
Avalanches are downhill racing shocks and are incredibly responsive to the terrain when you are pinning it. The slow parking lot feeling is only there during low shaft speeds. Once bumps start coming fast, the valving opens up and works like no other shock I've ridden.Complete control.
OK calm down, don't choke on your roof drop to flat salad. Because I'm kidding.
I know Avy's are great shocks. I had one on a DHR for racing for a season and a half. It was a superb example of suspension dampening. I did have to send it back twice to be valved lighter for me. When I first got that thing it was valved to HUCK. The second time I got it, it was better. The third time I got it was the sickness.
Oh, and it's "twat".
Yes, handbuilt race frames are pretty cool. Avy's, not so much.
Regardless, if you want to talk about trends then talk about the sunday. You cannot go anywhere on the east coast and not see them.
I could not agree more, I dont however ride a sunday, I dont ride a sinister and I do not have an avy, and I still consider myself a good rider, so why go for a sunday/avy/sinister, because everyone else has one?
Sounds kind of gay to me.
I don't ride any of these products either. But the sinisters are real quality bikes. I am hopefully going to be on one later this season and could not be more pleased. I don't understand why you dislike the frames. Sure they are popular but if you go up to Whistler you'll see chromag stuff everywhere because it's a local brand, just like sinister.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i went from 2 avy's to a dhx 5.0 and dhx 5.0 air overnight.
do i win some sort of trans-canadian/american award?
do i win some sort of trans-canadian/american award?
The Beauty of the Avy is the customed tuning to the rider and the customer service. I love my Avy. That being said, I am now a member of the Fox DHX 5.0 cult (w/ pro-pedal) 
I haven't herd to much either way with the double barrel. They seem to net the same response as an Avy, ya either like 'em or friggin hate 'em. The key is to make sure you have it set up properly, regardless of what shock you run.
I know the Avy will suit you well, regardless of condition. yes they can take a hit and a beating. Yes they are reliable. I haven't put the Fox through its paces however, so I can't comment on it yet. I do know a lot of folks run 'em, and absolutely love 'em.
Good luck.
I haven't herd to much either way with the double barrel. They seem to net the same response as an Avy, ya either like 'em or friggin hate 'em. The key is to make sure you have it set up properly, regardless of what shock you run.
I know the Avy will suit you well, regardless of condition. yes they can take a hit and a beating. Yes they are reliable. I haven't put the Fox through its paces however, so I can't comment on it yet. I do know a lot of folks run 'em, and absolutely love 'em.
Good luck.
sinister is a great company run by great people. They are doing so well because they have great products and great support. And I for one hope they continue to do well. Same goes for Avalanche. That being said, I own product from neither company. If only Frank would build me a steel bike...
does avy send you the dyno readout of the shock that is customized for you? -serious question, i really don't know how avy works but i do know that the DB is built only after you order it to your weight and riding style specs. i've plannned on ordering one for my demo ever since i rode several bikes equipped with it. i've tested the pleasantly plush DH setup as well as a stiff and responsive DB on a transition double.
besides, motomike has one and he's an all-american hero!
The beauty of the Avalanche shock is that instead of the rider trying to figure out how to set it up, Craig Seekins valves it to perfectly suit your weight and riding style. The range of the adjusters is smaller than most of the competitions but that's so that you can fine tune the already well set up suspension. Just be honest in answering his questions regarding how fast and smooth you ride and an Avy will blow your mind.
Not to say that the DB isn't a very worthy shock either. I haven't had the chance to ride one yet but so far the feedback I've heard has been very good.
Not to say that the DB isn't a very worthy shock either. I haven't had the chance to ride one yet but so far the feedback I've heard has been very good.
If you ask him, I'm sure he'd accommodate you. He had mine set up beautifully, and to be honest, never had to change a setting. I changed the rebound on a run or two, the same way with the compression, but always ended putting it back to the spec he had set up for me.does avy send you the dyno readout of the shock that is customized for you? -serious question, i really don't know how avy works but i do know that the DB is built only after you order it to your weight and riding style specs. i've plannned on ordering one for my demo ever since i rode several bikes equipped with it. i've tested the pleasantly plush DH setup as well as a stiff and responsive DB on a transition double.
besides, motomike has one and he's an all-american hero!
The best thing I would recommend is calling Craig, and ask him all the questions yous want or have. He'll be more than happy to answer any or all of them. After that, you can have a better understanding and info to base the decision on which shock would best suit your needs.
...actually, that is not true. The dyno is done simply as a general troubleshooting test, a final QC per say. The shocks are NOT setup to your weight (other than coil weight), frame or riding style. We just had a tour of the factory last weekend & met Jeff (the guy who assembles every CCDB by hand) & he & malcolm said that the shocks are all sent out of the factory with a stock setting (basically, everything set to the mid range) and it is the end customers responsibility to do the custom tune. The shock basically has a huge range of adjustment for the hi & lo compression/ rebound jets.
Haha, I just wanted you to bite.Not by much, weight is centralized in your frame and makes little difference, shock is custom shimmed and has hi/low speed adjustment unlike roco and dhx == the win IMO. Its no more of a huck shock then a demo 8 is a huck frame
If crag made an aluminum shaft shaft instead of the steel one it would be almost the same weight as a DHX or roco. Im keen to try the double barrel, might get one for my next frame even though they do weigh more then the avy.
Must suck being smoked by a kid on a specialized!
No one mentioned the roco, but I think the DHX feels nicer than the avy. I've ridden your avy with the hi/lo, and without it... it felt nice, but I reckon a DHX feels smoother - and they provide more than enough contol over compression damping between boost valve pressure and propedal adjuster.
But 100g is 100g (or whatever it is) and I know I wouldn't be building 17kg DH bikes every time if I thought "oh it's just centralized weight, oh it's weight down low" etc. I think having a light bike helps me manoeuvre the bike around better, and easily outweighs any performance difference that you might tell yourself the avy gives you. In my opinion it's a pricier, noisier, heavier DHX - but hey, that's just me.
PS - have you got weights on a DB, DHX, and Avy of the same size and config? I'm pretty sure the DB isn't heavier than the Avy - last time I saw weights I remember it being pretty similar to the DHX.
Well, bigger piston area for one. Far greater fluid volume. Shims on both sides of the piston so there is low speed rebound bleed and high speed rebound control. Not to mention the shim tuning.
I've had the diagram on my computer forever.
Most other shocks are simply not made to be quite as supple and perform quite as well, and then there are the morons that want less suspension and traction because they are so afraid of this guy named "bob" that they are willing to sacrifice the suspension and traction to get rid of him. There is also the price factor, it's a lot easier to make a shock like the old vanilla with a shimmed compression piston but simple bleed rebound. Of course that shock was way too "bouncy" so we had to go in the other direction with more complex internals that didn't really increase the suspension performance. The DHX is pretty good, but it does tend to spike at high speed and it is noticable. I'm really anal about shocks, I couldn't ride the DHX air due to how it blew through the travel and then packed up at real high speed, so the spiking of the DHX coil is a detraction from the shock, but I also find that it's nowhere near the magnitude of poor compression damping that was provided by shocks like the 5th element and curnut. I've ridden the Avy too, as well as I've tried to take lots of shocks through many different situations and speed ranges. I could easily say an avy felt poor based on some preliminary feeling, and I could say the Marzocchi Jr T feels like the best fork ever in the parking lot (well, it does due to the open bath when you're going 3mph). The DHX coil on the other hand does spike some due to the boost valve compression-interaction. If it didn't exist (what push can do) then you'd get much smoother action with the DHX.
I think a lot of the mainstream suspension companies have been hesitant to put a lot of effort into a DH shock where the only priority is suspension performance. The DH market is simply not that big for one, and there's always the guys that say their "rocco doesn't pedal good enough (because the design of my bike sucks)" or the ones that can't accept a little bit of pedal bob simply due to weight transfer. It is a far better idea for them to make something like the DHX air that can be tuned to be more progressive, can be tuned to pedal better or be less responsive, and it suits a much wider range of riders, even if there is a small performance hit due to this fact.
Some people will want all-out suspension performance, and I don't think many major shock manufacturers really deliver on this to a great extent.
Manimal, BTW, yours would have the optional high speed mace adjustment along with the blue lights....
But the question is how much boost? Probably need bigger injectors and intercooler to handle it.Manimal, BTW, yours would have the optional high speed mace adjustment along with the blue lights....
Yeah, that would be the "Interceptor" DHS
When did you smoke me, im sure i would remember being rolled up in a tally ho and set on fire.Haha, I just wanted you to bite.
Must suck being smoked by a kid on a specialized!
You didn't really ride it, you pedaled in the car park on a bike that was set up for a 100kg rider (30kg+ more then you) with the high low adjuster just installed the week before and not setup properly. Of course it would feel harsh, over sprung and over damped. I have only recently managed to get it set up properly
Actually, centralised weight is far less important then the outer extremes which i have said a bundle of times before, which is why running saints or xts makes no difference to how the bike rides, but going from 729 to 721 rims or boxxer teams to airs does. 100grams from the extreme ends is way more important then 100gram near the centre of gravity. You can not argue otherwise, the laws of nature won't allow you. The only times it matters is the poser ridemonkey and farkin "i have the lightest bike" award, which is super, super lame.
Noisy?? umm.......
Im a semi weight weenie, but i put performance ahead of weight which is why i wouldn't run xt cranks like all you guys did, shaving weight and then bending crank arms is stupid.
I find the performance of the avy with hi/low adjuster to be better then the dhx with low speed compression (pro pedal). Its worth the 100 grams to me.
Weights from mtbr turner forum, no link, saved on my HD. They came off a rfx, so 2.25 stroke. The dhx has been pushed, not surfe how this effects the weight
For me it is a reliablity issue. I don't want to be stuck up at whistler and have my shock fail will 2 more days of riding thats why i like my avy. I know all shocks will fail but so far I have not had a problem with mine for 6 years now. Knock on wood.
Which shock are you talking about here? The DHX main piston runs a conventional shimmed HSR and needle-valved LSR, and a compression shimstack on the other side of the piston. I believe fox have run this setup for a long time, but i'll speak only for the DHX as i've got one apart on my desk.
Shims on both side of the piston don't indicate LS/HS rebound - common sense would indicate that. LS rebound (and compression) are generally controlled by a port and needle valve, with HS rebound (and compression) being controlled by a sprung or shimmed variable aperture valve.
Those "morons" might just want to get down the hill faster and get themselves a better time, how stupid of them. There's no reason that you can't reduce unwanted suspension action (via more LSC) and still maintain traction (via less HSC, and faster rebound)... the thread "Avy Rider" posted explained that reasonably well, but people seemed more interested in debating his post than reading and understanding it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twat
**edit** Sorry for calling you a twat, i didn't have my sarcasm detector on.
I agree. The obsession with minimizing pedal bob ****s me when people go so far as to compromise suspension performance. I said it sucked when everyone was in love with spv and im still the same.
This is one reason why the avy is a great rear shock. Individual high and low speed adjustment is where its at, avy and cane creek have that in their favor. Enough low speed to maintain traction, enough high speed to blow off. Pedalling platform comes last, traction first. The DHX only has low speed, how do you tune your high speed udi?
Nice pic. photshop out the fox and CCDB and its a perfect picture.
Actually I am jealous I am on a fork/shock kick right now. I want the dhx 5.0 pushed, just because.
I'll keep my Avy over all else. It has never let me down and always rides perfect. Thats not a cult sales pitch rather an honest opinion from a MTNbiker that hucks/urban/DH/FR and single tracks as well as the occasional uphill (VERY SHORT) after 3 years on them.
Actually I am jealous I am on a fork/shock kick right now. I want the dhx 5.0 pushed, just because.
I'll keep my Avy over all else. It has never let me down and always rides perfect. Thats not a cult sales pitch rather an honest opinion from a MTNbiker that hucks/urban/DH/FR and single tracks as well as the occasional uphill (VERY SHORT
) after 3 years on them.
I did a full run without the hi/lo adjuster - but whatever, it didn't feel like anything special - the point i'm trying to make is, I don't think it makes enough of a performance difference to justify the added cost or weight. Beyond that, I don't think it makes a performance improvement at all (run an avy and a dhx back to back correctly tuned and tell me you'd see a difference in times). You don't even own a DHX which makes your viewpoints on it about as valid as mine on the avy. You obviously haven't spent time on one sprung and tuned correctly for you, by you.
But hey - if it makes you feel better, run it. Buy another one for your next frame even if it comes with a DHX (i'll bet you won't). I think you'd be doing yourself a favour by spending the cash on some buller lift tickets instead.
Haha, so 300g makes no difference to how the bike rides. I'd love to see you quantify that one. I'd suggest a word like "significant" for next time.
BTW - i'm running hones with inserts now (have been since the start of january - ie since when I last saw you in case you didn't notice) which weigh only 25g more than XT's, and I haven't had any issues with them whatsoever after plenty of thrashing.
Not much use with springs. You'd be surprised how much variation there is between springs (even of the same stroke/rate) between manufacturers. Be nice to see the weights of them without springs. Either way - I bet your remote res avy with hi/lo adjuster weighs a hell of a lot more than that chubie. Bloody turners.
Hey I own both and the avy is better all around.
I ran the dhx for the beacon race and honestly wish I had put the avy back on first. Hind sight is 20/20, I have ridden Beacon with both and the Avy is better by far.
I ran the dhx for the beacon race and honestly wish I had put the avy back on first. Hind sight is 20/20, I have ridden Beacon with both and the Avy is better by far.