You said "twat".... Now if only I could get a beavis/butthead dancing dude in here.
Hey dont be sorry for calling him a twat thats better than calling him a pu$$y.
Double Barrel vs Avy
- Thread starter Demo_rider
- Start date
Hey dont be sorry for calling him a twat thats better than calling him a pu$$y.
No, i didn't say that udi. Maybe you should re-read what i said.
I said centralized weight makes almost no difference to handling/ride performance.
Breifly, without chucking in a heap of equations, weight away from the centre of gravity effects the inertia and is a function of distance squared. Inertia effects the bikes pitching mode mostly, Mass effects the bounce mode mostly, both modes are coupled though by the dynamic index. Rider is reasonably centred in the bike therefore bike weight distribution has a larger effect on pitching mode/frequency then it does on the bounce mode, which is dominated by the rider (This is neglecting weight shift from the rider.) Increase in 100 or even 300 grams near the centre of gravity doesn't effect the bounce mode as much as 100 or 300 grams near the ends of the bike effects the pitch mode because of the distance squared relationship. Again, 100grams near the ends has more effect then 100grams near the centre of gravity.
I have lots of papers that show this effect and show how it effects the handling, stability and ride.
Normally i would agree, but this is the same bike, same rider. Totally justified comparison unless you ride your bike without springs
And yes, i would get the avy or the double barrel on my next bike, or any other shock that comes out with hi/low adjuster
Look, I just read it again - and wonders of wonders, it said the same thing. You even went to the trouble of underlining the offending statement.
I see nothing that says "almost". You went ahead and said that removing 300g from the low centre of your bike makes NO difference (ie ZERO difference) to how the bike rides. That's obviously incorrect.
Semantics, semantics. No as in "no perceptible" difference. How about discuss the point rather then nit pick the grammar.
Did increasing the weight of your cranks 25 grams "perceptibly" change the way your bike rode? Didn't think so, and neither would increasing the weight of the shock. On the other hand, putting in a better damper would change the way the bike rides.
And again, if your so into individual hi/low adjustment then why run the DHX which only has low speed adjustment and is therefore not as good as the avy or DB?
It seems to me most people here rather have the mass produced stuff over the more exotic items. I'll take the exotic custom built stuff any day over the walk into any major store items. Just like in high end stereo equipment, I'd take a Lexicon preamp over any Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon etc.
CD - he's got you on the crank statement mate... It's obviously wrong..
I personally don't agree that the Avy shocks are worth the extra dollar over the DHXs. They seem good for riders who prefer to bolt a shock in and go, but spend a little time tuning a DHX and I guarantee you can have it feeling as good, for less money and weight.
Like uDi said, 100g here and there adds up very quickly and if you're even semi-serious about racing then weight is more important and it's easier to justify tuning a shock to suit your style. If you're more of a weekend warrior, and you're out to have fun then the Avy makes more sense.
I personally don't agree that the Avy shocks are worth the extra dollar over the DHXs. They seem good for riders who prefer to bolt a shock in and go, but spend a little time tuning a DHX and I guarantee you can have it feeling as good, for less money and weight.
Like uDi said, 100g here and there adds up very quickly and if you're even semi-serious about racing then weight is more important and it's easier to justify tuning a shock to suit your style. If you're more of a weekend warrior, and you're out to have fun then the Avy makes more sense.
Semantics.
Like i said, no as in "no perceptible", since when do you have to back up every single statement made. Gesssus.
Again, lets discuss the argument not pull apart the context of the word no.
You can not tell me you could feel a difference in terms of ride or handling (not flex from the cranks) going from xt to hones, i do not believe it.
I never said weight doesn't make a difference, i said weight at the ends makes more of a difference then weight towards the cog, therefore the whole debate about the avy weighing more is not an issue, its only an issue for the car park omg your bike is so light test.
I have alot of peer reviewed papers and maths to back these statements up and i believe them over a bunch of internet engineers, sorry fellas.
normally id agree with you but in this case i think the comparison with springs and mount hardware is good, because the avy can only use that exact spring and because if you are comparing against the fox, its got the stock spring on and afaik, thats the lightest one available in steel.
basically, unless you use a ti spring, your weight penalty for the avy will be in the 150g region on a dh bike.
then theres the catch, ti springs for avy arent hard to come by and not available in some common rate/length combos so you might end up stuck with a steel spring and not being able to drop weight with a ti coil will make the effective weight difference double.
Not from XTs to Hones (a 25g difference), but it was a night and day difference between the XTs and the Saints as far as handling goes. Give it a try one day mate, I bet you'd notice the difference too.
It's pretty f*ckin obvious that a given weight difference further from the cog has more of an impact on handling, than weight centralised on the bike's mass. But, saying weight changes at close to the centre make NO or "no perceptible" difference (see I cover my semantic spouting ass) is downright silly. Some riders are more particular about weight than yourself and particularly when trying to ride closer and closer to the limit, weight and dynamics are more critical.
Take your peer reviewed papers and maths and shove em Mr Condescending. Crying semantics over a ridiculous statement, and then playing the intellectual high horse is a childish approach to an argument.
I have.
I went from Profiles to Saints = +150 gram saving i found no perceptable handling difference what so ever.
Changed from 40 tooth e13 crownwheel and 40tooth bashy to 36 tooth bashy plus guide ring = approx 100 grams saving = no perceptible difference in handling
I went from Monster T's to Boxxer races and the difference was absolutely night and day in terms of handling
I went from Boxxer races to Boxxer airs (150 gram saving approx) and the difference was there, a little easier to pull up
I went from tubded maxxis 2.5 tires to tubless 2.5 tires and i noticed the bike sprints alot better.
Didn't mean to be condescending, but you guys are the ones that are picking on the use of the word "no".
But i do stand by my statement, a heavier shock of say 100 grams near the cog (which is approximentally 0.5% of the total bike weight, or 0.1% of rider + bike) makes no perceptible difference to the way the bike rides.
I'm with caveman here. A shocks performance is worth more than some coins in your pocket(weight or value). You'll notice a better shock over the amount of weight your talking between your legs(there's an opening).
I went from Avy to DHX and preferred the Avy,not a clear cut test as it was on different bikes although similer. but still a noticable difference and I'm light,and the Avy wasn't set up right.
Performance and weight is always a balance but I think the Avy and it's weight penalty will get you down the hill faster.
I went from Avy to DHX and preferred the Avy,not a clear cut test as it was on different bikes although similer. but still a noticable difference and I'm light,and the Avy wasn't set up right.
Performance and weight is always a balance but I think the Avy and it's weight penalty will get you down the hill faster.
Yeah but a lot of people do notice the difference. Saying you didn't and then applying that to anyone else isn't science.
Aye, I completely agree. Suspension and brakes are two areas where reasonable weight increase is worth the added performance. But TBH, I haven't found the Avy shocks to be worth the cost and weight penalty. I don't believe they offer a significant advantage over a properly set-up DHX, given the weight and cost penalty.
Well, sorry to come in between this, but do you guys think you could help me out? Still haven't really decided whats better; the Avy DHS or the CCDB? Right now as it stands, I'm looking into the DB.
If it helps im probably going to get the double barrel from my next shock as i like having knobs to fiddle with.
High and low speed rebound does it for me, and its the only shock to offer it.
The only question for me is servicing seeing i live in Australia, at least i can service the avy myself or get a local moto shop to do it if im feeling lazy.
My other issue is the shaft diameter. Due to the tube in tube design the shaft is the same diameter as romics and fox rc's which are under sized imo for 3inch's of shaft travel.
The best way is to go ride them yourself but its hard to do this realistically.
Thats why i mentioned the papers, it wasn't to be an intellectual prat, it is actually backed up by science.
Seriously, 0.1% change in mass near the centre of gravity will not make any noticeable difference to handling when there are so many other factors in play such as tire pressure, compression and rebound settings, rider position etc.
On paper the avy is a better shock and the double barrel is better then it (in my opinion), the dhx doesn't have hi/low adjustment which limits tuning. Thats on paper. In the real world it comes down to how its setup which is completly rider preference.
Dont go off what your answers are on mtbr.com.
The avy is a great shock you will get hands on tuning from craig thatt is valved for you and your riding style as well as your leverage ratio on the bikes suspension. I have had Craig redo all my stuff and the one on one is awesome as well as he gets it right.
Avalanche is the choice of many, the ccdb is good but it is also built with default internals. The Avy is built for you it is a proven beast that works every time. It is a great peice of equiptment and IMO better than the ccdb. I have ohlins on my crotch rockets and MX in the past and the Avy is all that.
The avy is a great shock you will get hands on tuning from craig thatt is valved for you and your riding style as well as your leverage ratio on the bikes suspension. I have had Craig redo all my stuff and the one on one is awesome as well as he gets it right.
Avalanche is the choice of many, the ccdb is good but it is also built with default internals. The Avy is built for you it is a proven beast that works every time. It is a great peice of equiptment and IMO better than the ccdb. I have ohlins on my crotch rockets and MX in the past and the Avy is all that.
You won't be disappointed with the DB, I'm not!
You cant go wrong with either shock. Im an Avy cult member because of the reliability. Its the only shock I have ever owned that lasted an entire season without needing a rebuild. Plus it is plush. Im not worried about how it pedals, but you can tune the Avy to pedal very well with the new hi/lo adjustment.
You are trying to compare two different shocks IMO. If you were comparing an Avy vs a Roco or a DHX vs a CCDB, then you would have a tough decision. No pedal platform vs a pedal platform is the only question you should be asking yourself.... then make a choice.
You are trying to compare two different shocks IMO. If you were comparing an Avy vs a Roco or a DHX vs a CCDB, then you would have a tough decision. No pedal platform vs a pedal platform is the only question you should be asking yourself.... then make a choice.
Well, the DHX is in the question. I have one on my bike now, brand new, but I'm wanting to upgrade before it's used so my shop can make a straight swap. If I don't get either of these, I think I will just buy a Ti spring now, and then when I get the money, get 'er PUSH'd. I'd rather go with an upgrade now though. Thanks a lot. This thread got a lot of great feedback on many sites!
Yeah, valid point. I'm going to experience a DHX for the first time ever this weekend.....so, after this weekend, I'll be able to see what the inherent differences are...
However, a 9.5 is a DH specific bike, so in my mind, I think the pedal platform v. no pedal platform is moot. Now a DH/FR combo bike, or dual purpose, then I would strongly consider something with a platform. Again, after this weekend I'll have a better handle on it.....
However, a 9.5 is a DH specific bike, so in my mind, I think the pedal platform v. no pedal platform is moot. Now a DH/FR combo bike, or dual purpose, then I would strongly consider something with a platform. Again, after this weekend I'll have a better handle on it.....
well said, o wise one.
Does anybody have any comments on the CCDB's reliability? I feel like they haven't been around that long....that said, the Avalanches have are certainly proven.
In my eyes, the avalanche is the best shock you can get without getting into fancy and sometimes useless adjustments/features (such as SPV).
How much does the CC cost? The avy is 650 with the remote resi and hilo, I thought the CC was 750 stock. If so, the possibility of adding a ti spring is easier with an avy and may negate the weight difference.
Are you a constant tinkerer, who feels the need to change settings every single run, looking for that edge, or are you a set-it and forget-it kind of guy that can adapt on the bike?
My shock came valved for my frame, and it has never let me down. I've adjusted the rebound a little, but almost never touched the compression and I've never had any complaints from the rear end. Not over high speed ripples, big bumps and jumps, nor low speed rock gardens.
It's still a relatively moot comparison though...both shocks are great and are similar in price....would you rather have a dyno sheet to hang on your wall or a custom tuned shock? hose hanging off the frame or piggyback resivoir? smooth black finish or industrial strength fatness? red and orange or black and white?
The DB retails for 650 with a steel spring.
Reliability for us has been perfect.
The Double Barrel is $650 as well.
And also I constantly change the high and low compression settings for the course I am riding. THe adjustment range is the main thing I like about it.
There are some things that are worth the weight. I would say the Avy is solidly in that category. It simply is better then most of the stuff out there, providing you can appreciate it.
I can see why the racers wouldn't like it though. Its full on suspension, not part time or with pro-pedal.
I can see why the racers wouldn't like it though. Its full on suspension, not part time or with pro-pedal.
That would seem to be a huge key. If you race a lot of different venues, as opposed to the weekend warrior rider, then I can certainly see the advantage of the adjustments. The key being the ability to gauge said adjustments.
Not much of a racer, but I take my biking very seriously and am up the mountain about 4-6 times a week in the summer and the terrain is very different on all those mountain. And resorts will be a big part this summer.
Well you may have answered your own question then.... 
Either way, you'll probably be happy.
Either way, you'll probably be happy.
25g made no perceptible difference, but removing 300g from my bike made a noticeable difference to how quickly I could accelerate and brake, and also helped with making quick direction changes at speed and redirecting the bike when veering off course. In fact, taking a kilo off my bike was the best thing i've done for my times (apart from actually riding), and 300g is approximately 1/3 of that change.
Toodles seems to agree with me, but i'm sure your engineering degree and peer reviewed papers will negate any actual benefits during riding we've managed to notice.
Who was going so far as to compromise suspension performance? No need to make things up to support your argument.
What you need to realise is that pedalling is still a VERY important part of DH racing. I hate to use coffs as an example (because IMO there are far better tracks out there) but it's a perfect one. Where the track meets the fireroad and uphill section, you have to be pedalling hard - both up the short hill and along the flat section. Like it or not there's going to be pedalling sections on the majority of DH tracks. But the issue on this particular section of the track is, you can't waste all your energy because it's followed by a long fast tech section that takes a lot of energy and manhandling to get through fast and clean.
For every second you don't pedal along the uphill/flat, you're losing seconds. So having a bike that pedals well and therefore losing the minimum amount of energy while still pedalling constantly is pretty important. Obviously this is where a bike with a degree of antisquat under pedalling will help (like dw-link), but otherwise in terms of overall times I think it's very beneficial to take the time to dial in more LSC damping to help with wasting less energy while cranking down.
No, what i'm "into" is getting down the hill in as little time as possible - and i'll make whatever changes I believe will assist that. It's very interesting how all of a sudden you're the king of compression damping when a couple of months ago you barely knew the ideal relationship required between them, and a couple months before that happily rode a monster T which had somewhere in the region of zero compression damping (along with a stock avy that had about as little damping as i've ever felt on a shock).
Anyway, between the boost valve and propedal adjuster, you've got beyond adequate control of compression damping at low/high shaft speeds IMO. If you can't achieve the correct balance of LS damping and not spiking on a DHX5 then you probably shouldn't be tuning shocks.
In practise, the boost valve pressure adds smooth LSC damping that is relatively easy to blowoff at faster shaft speeds, while the propedal adjuster increases/decreases preload on a spring that pushes the boost valve open making it easier to open. Turning the adjuster in actually decreases preload on the spring, which lets the boost valve stay closed easier, while turning the adjuster out (for less propedal) adds preload to the spring which assists the boost valve in opening. So essentially while the propedal does affect LSC, it is mainly tuning the HSC curve by controlling how easily the boost valve aperture can increase.
I've made the shock work incredibly well on a bike that pedalled horribly (ie needed a fair amount of LSC), a bike that pedalled reasonably well (medium levels of LSC), and a bike that needed as little as possible compression damping.
The DHX also offers a few things the avy doesn't in the way of the bottom out adjuster - which actually increases compression damping via the boost valve as the shock gets deeper into its travel. Hence the "position sensitive compression damping" marketing. I think this goes a long way to helping bikes with fairly linear or regressive rates towards the end of the travel. Obviously that doesn't apply to the turner, but the DHX makes specific tuning easy even for overly progressive bikes; toodles removed the IFP bleed screw and pushed the IFP down further to make the shock more linear than the bottom out adjuster alone could offer. 10min job that required no rebuild or rebleed.
In short - I think the DHX can be tuned to correctly compression damp just about any bike effectively, and sitting there talking it down without having spent time tuning one doesn't do your argument any favours.
Wow, you almost said it yourself.
The best shock isn't the one that has the most adjustments on paper, it's the one that provides the best damping (to cater for downhill specifically) and a range of tuning broad enough to cover different bikes, suspension designs, and user preferences. I have NO doubt that the avy fills the role capably, but you're seriously kidding yourself if you think it's making you any faster than if you were riding a DHX. But by all means, if it helps you sleep better at night - keep telling yourself that.
Furthermore, an avy + hi/lo adjuster unit isn't cheap. I'd rather spend the money where it is actually going to make a tangible performance difference, and as I pointed out earlier - when every other area has been attacked, shock weight is weight nonetheless. The way I see it - why pay more money to have more of it?
Like I said, 300 grams where is the issue mate. When did I say in this thread weight makes no difference, I said small weight savings or additions (say 150grams for the avy) near the cog makes no <perceptible> difference to handling, not the same thing.
LSC is not the same as SPV, I said SPV compromised suspension performance and it sucked nuts, which i did.
So what? Riding is all about learning, testing, talking, getting faster and most importantly unless your rich you have money restrictions.
And unless you knew all about suspension tuning since your instant of conception then your argument is kind of lame really. Im always open to learning new things and if i find, or told, a better way to do something im quite willing to change my mind.
I rode the monster T because I didn’t have much $$ at the time and I had just wasted $1800 on a dorado that snapped after 6 months, yay for race forks!, I even went to the trouble of shoe horning the dorado tpc++ damper into the monster because of the **** brake dive. I loved the stiffness of the fork but the weight and brake dive always sucked.
When you rode it at coffs the avy had not been rebuilt in 1 ½ years, when I pulled it apart the resi pressure was 90psi instead of 180psi. The rear avy was also still setup to match the soft monster T front end (only had the boxxers for a few weeks prior, still tunning). When you had a pedal at obr the hi/low adjuster had just been installed. So both times shock was not really setup, I’ll give you a go when I come to coffs next if you want, but I suspect you will just say it sucks no matter what so probably no point
Right…… so you say your one ride on an avy allows your to make a justified statement and yet my multiple rides of DHX shocks on multiple bikes doesn’t allow me to make a statement about it at all, well, go figure that hey??
I don’t need to justify my purchase of the avy. When I bought my DHR the only option was that or a romic, fairly easy choice to make, romics were blowing more then a hooker in Amsterdam.
I like the avys, I like the robustness, serviceability, bottom out resistance, custom made and set up for you and your bike, can change the eye to eye length with one piece in 1/8 inch intervals (which I have done to lower my bb) and easy to reduce the travel with spacers in 1/4 inch intervals (which I have done), now with hi/low adjuster and only a 150gram weight penalty at the cog which makes no difference to handling. And i don't have to deal with dirtworks. Winner.
See - I never said the Avy was poorly damped (in fact, you'll see I said "I have no doubt the Avy fills the role quite capably") but what I did say was that you'd be kidding yourself if you thought it was taking seconds off your run by running it instead of a DHX. I only brought up the weight thing to prove a tangible (rather than perceptive) difference between the shocks - obviously it's a small one, but still tangible/measurable.
I see you constantly saying on here that the Avy is better, that's why I argued it. I don't think i've ever said here that a DHX is better than an Avy/DB (hell I haven't even ridden a DB, so i'll reserve judgement until I have), but I think it does a damn good job and since most bikes come with it, costs you nothing for the priviledge.
BTW - your bike felt pretty good when I last rode it at OBR, you know I like a good argument for argument's sake. The only thing I would have changed is the 60a compound tyres and 50psi pressures.
I see you constantly saying on here that the Avy is better, that's why I argued it. I don't think i've ever said here that a DHX is better than an Avy/DB (hell I haven't even ridden a DB, so i'll reserve judgement until I have), but I think it does a damn good job and since most bikes come with it, costs you nothing for the priviledge.
BTW - your bike felt pretty good when I last rode it at OBR, you know I like a good argument for argument's sake. The only thing I would have changed is the 60a compound tyres and 50psi pressures.
Yeh, i know you like to argue, and i always get defensive and argumentative back and then it degrades into a stale mate around a circular argument which goes on for three pages, ahhh....i love the internet, what would we do without it :biggrin:See - I never said the Avy was poorly damped (in fact, you'll see I said "I have no doubt the Avy fills the role quite capably") but what I did say was that you'd be kidding yourself if you thought it was taking seconds off your run by running it instead of a DHX. I only brought up the weight thing to prove a tangible (rather than perceptive) difference between the shocks - obviously it's a small one, but still tangible/measurable.
I see you constantly saying on here that the Avy is better, that's why I argued it. I don't think i've ever said here that a DHX is better than an Avy/DB (hell I haven't even ridden a DB, so i'll reserve judgement until I have), but I think it does a damn good job and since most bikes come with it, costs you nothing for the priviledge.
BTW - your bike felt pretty good when I last rode it at OBR, you know I like a good argument for argument's sake. The only thing I would have changed is the 60a compound tyres and 50psi pressures.
Well, i won't lie, i do think the avy is superior in terms of build quality and imo performance out of the box. Im not dissing the DHX though, i think its fine for what it is, an OEM shock that has the possibility to be tuned nicely if you can pull it apart and know what your doing.
On the bike, Im about to slap on 40a super tackey tubless tires on the front and i have got my tire pressures dialed, dialed in the spring rates as well. Putting on some tubless rims as well with hope pro II to reduce the rotational weight a bit more.
And shock horror, i have even back tracked on my opposition to boxxer bolt on stems, but only because SIC make the only 60mm low rise 25.4 stem
The people who bag on avy have never owned one and should shut their pie holes.
I have a 07 DHS on my canfield and it is by far the best shock I have placed on my frame. It ramps better then anything else I have used, takes huge hits and sucks up everything from the smallest of bumps to big dirt brake bumps.
The workman ship on every part of the avy is hand made and even the stepdowns are machined like nothing I have ever seen before.
If you have the coin to spare I would say get the chubby and believe me, you will never be disappointed in the performance. They will valve the shock to your weight and if they have the specs for your frame they will set it up for that frame geo.
Also for the dude who said Avy shocks are heavy... Get some more info to back that up because mine with a remote res in much lighter the the DHX 5.0 I got kicking around.
I have a 07 DHS on my canfield and it is by far the best shock I have placed on my frame. It ramps better then anything else I have used, takes huge hits and sucks up everything from the smallest of bumps to big dirt brake bumps.
The workman ship on every part of the avy is hand made and even the stepdowns are machined like nothing I have ever seen before.
If you have the coin to spare I would say get the chubby and believe me, you will never be disappointed in the performance. They will valve the shock to your weight and if they have the specs for your frame they will set it up for that frame geo.
Also for the dude who said Avy shocks are heavy... Get some more info to back that up because mine with a remote res in much lighter the the DHX 5.0 I got kicking around.
Drat. I'm pissed I saw this thread too late, or I would have weighed my shocks. Earlier tonight I had a DHX 4.0 and a CCDB in each hand and couldn't tell the difference, both with steel coils. Not that this is scientific or anything, but I went so far as to close my eyes and have my friend place one shock in each hand and still really couldn't tell, so I would say they are very VERY close in weight.
I then proceeded to put a 193g RCS spring on the CCDB and then it won by far
.
i used to have a double barred on a demo 9, it was the best ride i ever got in my life. unfortunatly it would hit around 8-9 inches into the travel and i had to get rid of it. its the kind of shock that had 4 inches of sag, and when i put an x factor ramp on a loading dock and jumped to flat it only used 5 inches of travel. its a "smart" shock. nothing rides better. I SAY GO FOR IT. best shock ever!!!!!! pm me for details.
O yea, forgot to add, I have a DHX 5.0 on my Scream and after some basic tuning (a few springs and several runs and knob-turns later..) it feels awesome. I wouldn't trade it for anything now that I have it set perfect, but the DB still seems to have some advantages.
Most importantly is that the adjustments truly are 100% separate. I can bottom it out by throwing my weight back really hard, but still land 5ft to flat and it uses ~80% of the shocks travel. It feels weird to be honest. I tuned the DHX to barely (if ever) bottom out on the largest stuff I would hit. With the DB I keep going bigger and it keeps feeling exactly the same. From 1ft to 5ft (to flat), it still feels like I landed in deep, thick mud or something of that nature. By the way, I'm not a complete idiot, I always like to tune on some small ledges to flat to easily simulate a much larger jump to tranny.
I'm gonna beat on the bike at Diablo this weekend and report back. Then I'll know how it really handles a rocky trail. If you are at Diablo the 7th-8th and want to feel a DB (and weigh about 135lbs...) flag me down and you can try it out. Look for a Black SXT, Deemax's, douchebag rider.
Most importantly is that the adjustments truly are 100% separate. I can bottom it out by throwing my weight back really hard, but still land 5ft to flat and it uses ~80% of the shocks travel. It feels weird to be honest. I tuned the DHX to barely (if ever) bottom out on the largest stuff I would hit. With the DB I keep going bigger and it keeps feeling exactly the same. From 1ft to 5ft (to flat), it still feels like I landed in deep, thick mud or something of that nature. By the way, I'm not a complete idiot, I always like to tune on some small ledges to flat to easily simulate a much larger jump to tranny.
I'm gonna beat on the bike at Diablo this weekend and report back. Then I'll know how it really handles a rocky trail. If you are at Diablo the 7th-8th and want to feel a DB (and weigh about 135lbs...) flag me down and you can try it out. Look for a Black SXT, Deemax's, douchebag rider.
Wow, hot thread. Bottom line, I've seen the dyno charts on every coil DH shock out there except the Revox, and The adjustment range of the CCDB has about 40-50% wider adjustment range than all of them, giving you the ability to make it feel like whatever shock you want. While also giving you complete individual control of high/low speed compression and rebound. Huge plus. You don't need Craig(avy), Darren(Push), or anyone to valve your shock per course.(Which is what every pro racer's mechanic does) You are the valving maestro for your CCDB. So get it and ride hard, especially with the Demo. IT is amazing with that bike.