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Downcountry curious - "looking for a bike"

chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
I am looking for a light weight downcountry bike. My "design specs" are:

25 lbs.
120 mm travel front and back. Preferably Fox branded bc they are the "devil I know."
Shimano XT drivetrain. I could consider SLX, but have been riding XT on all my bikes that've had gears since the 90s
Middle of the road headtube angle. I don't want super slack. I actually OK with something a little steep.
Steep effective seattube angle. I need that upright climbing position for my back.
I'd like to avoid cable tourism if possible, but it's not a deal breaker.
Don't care much about spec for wheels, tires, stems, bars, seats, dropper, etc. Those are all "wear items"...

For now I'd like to keep it "cheapish." $4500 or less would be nifty.

Suggestions? About what bike to buy you creeps.

FWIW, the reason I am in the market is that due to injury I have been riding my single speed hardtail lately. I love it, but my back can't take the pounding, bc of multiple back injuries over the years. I'd also like to be able to do longer rides and gears would help with that...
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,519
7,114
Yakistan
TBC Spur is 120/120 but they kit shit out with Sram. I'm with you on the XT kit. I've been buying frames and building up bikes for over 20 years now. Complete bikes never meet my standards.
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Yeah. I built my TBC Patrol frame up, but kinda want the savings of buying a complete.

That rig is on my list… I really don’t want to piecemeal a bike together, but I do have a pair of Hope wheels just sitting here…
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,386
10,854
AK
Spur.

I'd be extremely careful buying something like the Epic 8. If the specs are anything like my Allied BC40, it's an XC race bike with 120mm of travel, not a DC/trail bike. There's a significant difference IME. Mine's a rocket and super fun in the right conditions, but it's not the long-trail/day 120mm bike that you'd associate with a trail-bike.
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Jm_ said:
Spur.

I'd be extremely careful buying something like the Epic 8. If the specs are anything like my Allied BC40, it's an XC race bike with 120mm of travel, not a DC/trail bike. There's a significant difference IME. Mine's a rocket and super fun in the right conditions, but it's not the long-trail/day 120mm bike that you'd associate with a trail-bike.
Click to expand...
I am looking for something to replace a fully rigid XC bike. If it weren’t for my back not being able to handle it, I would probably just throw some gears back on the fully rigid hardtail SS.

So, perhaps I am looking at something that leans a little more toward XC.

The acceleration and nimbleness of the thing I’m riding now floors me, but the price is too high…
 
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
17,414
14,904
Jenson has some great sales on frames or completes too. Building with Shimano the closeout Norco Optic frame could be tempting. I'm SRAM drivetrains so wouldn't want the PF92 BB.
 
rideit

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,888
12,644
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Another vote to check out a late model Element, it does everything that you are looking for extremely well. And very adjustable for your geo preferences.
one thing that I loved about mine is that it easily fit two 1litre water bottles.
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,386
10,854
AK
chuffer said:
I am looking for something to replace a fully rigid XC bike. If it weren’t for my back not being able to handle it, I would probably just throw some gears back on the fully rigid hardtail SS.

So, perhaps I am looking at something that leans a little more toward XC.

The acceleration and nimbleness of the thing I’m riding now floors me, but the price is too high…
Click to expand...
Yeah, it can be a blast under the right conditions/trail. Snappy and accelerating so easy. Pulling Gs in uphill bermed turns that you wouldn't even think could do that, popping off every little tiny thing on the trail, etc. But like I said, it's also not the first choice for a 120mm trail bike. I have a friend with a Pivot 429 Trail, current version I believe, built up with basically all the same specs, rotor size, tire size, dropper, etc...but it builds up at about 30lbs on the nose, where mine is a hair below 23lbs. And IMO, it feels it too when you ride it, either way, with the heavier bike being, well, like a heavy bike, while the snappy XC race one is just trying to go faster all the time.

I went with 120mm to get some additional relief...but it isn't much more than 100 in this class of bike.

Basically if I didn't have multiple bikes, this definitely would not be one my bike by a long shot. It's fun to ride, but it's definitely on the racier side of things.

If you get something that can easily accept other shocks, that also might give you a good way to achieve what you are looking for. I can fit a RS Deluxe with an offset reducer from the offset bushings company and angling the shock in a certain way so it doesn't rub on the shock mounts. I wouldn't say get this bike for it's shock compatibility. I can easily take a Fox Float DPS, SL or RS Sidlux, but I'm having to do some interesting stuff to fit the Deluxe. But the Deluxe DOES change the ride considerably. It's a lot less snappy and quick accelerating IME with that shock. I wanted to try an Ohlins XC race shock on it, but it is way out of the range of possibilities due to the physical fit limitations. So as long as it's something that can easily take a range of shocks, that would be my vote.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,915
7,331
Banshee Phantom frame and one of those Specialized bikes mentioned above?
www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com

Banshee Phantom V3.2 frame only

*Please specify your choice of dropouts in the "notes" section at checkout. Banshee Phantom V3.2 - The original down country, short travel 29er. V3.2 - updated to a 30.9mm seat post diameter When the Phantom hit the trails in 2015, there really wasn’t a category for this kind of...
www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,519
7,114
Yakistan
I snagged the last XL 5010c frame/shock off Jenson for 2000. It'll be my do it all / back saving bike. 130/140. Putting the finishing touches on it right now. I don't know what it weighs but it doesn't feel heavyish.

20241130_063446.jpg20241130_063709.jpg
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Went with the $3k TBC Spur. Price was right even though it’s pretty far from my goal of 25 lbs. I have a few ideas on how to improve on that.

Gonna go ride the freak mobile one last time before heading out for two weeks of business travel. All of the results of my lack of control on blackfriday should be waiting for me when I get back….
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Weighed the bike that the Spur is slated to replace. With muddy tires it came in at just under 27 lbs on the fishscale. (I could also see the weight from the last time I measured the Patrol - 39 lbs!!!)

I figure it f I can get back to 27-27 lbs with gears and suspension, that’d be pretty swell.

For reference the current weapon of choice:

IMG_2582.jpeg
 
canadmos

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,209
21,801
Canaderp
Now buy some 35% off We Are One wheels and you'll be golden :p

The weight must be related to their warranty. I had a 2017ish carbon Scout and that thing was light as heck, same as this Spur or lighter without any fancy parts. But it also cracked...
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
22,002
7,243
borcester rhymes
chuffer said:
Bikes are ridiculously expensive and it feels weird to say that $3k is a good deal for something that is pretty much just a toy.
Click to expand...
They really are. I was wondering the other day, why am I such a cheapskate even when I make decent money? And the answer is that a frame alone costs over $2k nowadays. It's tough to figure out what's actually "worth it". Not a lot of unhappy spur owners though, so if you need the bike then you should be happy. It's just...3200 for frame alone? yikes.
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
$3k for a complete, btw.

I buy a new bike about every 4 years.

The last car I bought was 10 years ago. It cost me $900.

I am not sure if it is cheapskate thing as much as difference in how people value different things…
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Heh. I can only imagine. Collins, Boeing, Woodward, Aeromotion amongst others are customers of mine. I have a rough idea of what individual pieces cost to make - it’s always more than my bike budget!

Not sure that is the type of airplane you’re talking about, but that’s my only context…
 
Jozz

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
6,420
8,225
SADL
Check on mtbr. Plenty lightweight Spurs.
chuffer said:
Heh. I can only imagine. Collins, Boeing, Woodward, Aeromotion amongst others are customers of mine. I have a rough idea of what individual pieces cost to make - it’s always more than my bike budget!

Not sure that is the type of airplane you’re talking about, but that’s my only context…
Click to expand...
When I used to work for Bell Helicopter, there was a part which was a regular large size sst bolt that was maybe worth $10, was then machined to make it a "special bolt" and sold $2400usd.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
22,002
7,243
borcester rhymes
chuffer said:
$3k for a complete, btw.

I buy a new bike about every 4 years.

The last car I bought was 10 years ago. It cost me $900.

I am not sure if it is cheapskate thing as much as difference in how people value different things…
Click to expand...
I see that now. The NX complete build was cheaper than the frame alone...somebody's buying a new summer house with all that COVID money.

What about the spec chisel? That's been on my radar for a bit, though I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, not less. I won't be shopping for a new bike for a while.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,244
5,274
Copenhagen, Denmark
Trek Top Fuel. I had the gen3 now I have the gen4 frame built up 120/120. I ticked all my boxes for this type of bike including no flex stay. There are a lot of good reviews online of both and not unlikely you could find a gen3 for a good price. I only upgraded because me and the bike got airborne but not together and we both ended up landing on some unfriendly rocks.
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
New bike weighs in at 30.5 lbs in size XL with pedals. Got some ideas (&parts) to change that. I’d like to try and get below 27 lbs without doubling the cost of the bike…

Unfortunately, OneUp dropper was DOA.
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,519
7,114
Yakistan
chuffer said:
New bike weighs in at 30.5 lbs in size XL with pedals. Got some ideas (&parts) to change that. I’d like to try and get below 27 lbs without doubling the cost of the bike…

Unfortunately, OneUp dropper was DOA.
Click to expand...
Thats pretty good. My 5010 came in at 33 lbs. A 27lb Spur would be a rocket ship!
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
@HardtailHack where’d your post go?

Regardless, sounds like an interesting ride. I already have a 40 lbs mullet endurbro sled. However, I am Not sure what the allure of a 40 lbs bike with 110 mm of travel is?
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,915
7,331
chuffer said:
@HardtailHack where’d your post go?

Regardless, sounds like an interesting ride. I already have a 40 lbs mullet endurbro sled. However, I am Not sure what the allure of a 40 lbs bike with 110 mm of travel is?
Click to expand...
Yeah I deleted it, I assumed people would ask why you'd want a heavy DC bike, haha!
I am heavy so an extra few pounds on a bike isn't really a big deal, so I looked for Enduro bikes that could be made in to a burly DC bike.
Emailed Crossworx asking about frame alterations before realizing how bad a shape my current workplace is in financially so I have to not be a dick with money just in case.
They said moving the shock mount and external cables in the front triangle are easy changes.
1733635540088.jpeg

That mulleted with a 45mm stroke Vivid coil and a 130mm fork would be fun, the stroke reduction would reduce the rising rate bit at the end of the stroke but a progressive coil would be enough for me.
My legs are large because of my heft so having no moving bits up high is nice, legs rubbing on suspension bits is annoying.

EDIT- Plus it has a threaded BB, no drop in headset, post mount brake and not too many pivot bearings.
 
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chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
Jozz said:
What's your current build kit?
If I had a Spur I'd also want it to be near 28lbs.
Click to expand...
SRAM NX with Novatech / OEM WTB wheels.

I have a pair of MX Hope Pro5 wheels that should save a good chunk of weight, but I need to relace the rear to 29”. I also grabbed the parts to convert to 11 speed XT, bc it should be a little lighter (according to published weights) and I’ve been running XT stuff since the beginning of time. I had better (and lighter) than OEM saddle, bars and stem in my parts bin also.

At the and of the day, I really just bought the frame, fork, shock, dropper and few other bits, but it was still a good deal IMO. Take-off parts will become community spares / backup parts.
 
chuffer

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,877
1,246
McMinnville, OR
I've gotten most of the build done. I still need to bleed the brakes and check the dropper cable. NBD, just need to go do it.

I am a little bummed by the actual weight that I am coming in at - just a touch under 30 lbs on my hanging scale! I was really hoping for a couple of pounds less than that. I am currently working my way through my options.

Components where I don't think I am going to find anything (or I am unwilling to change for now):
  • Fork and shock - I could easily save weight by going to higher end fork and shock, but that is outside the budget.
  • Front wheel - I was looking at my spare Hope Pro5 wheels as a great chance to save some weight, but after comparing numbers the Novatech hub is actually lighter than the Hope Pro5! I have the Hope wheels built up with WTB KOM Tough i35 rims and the OEM WTB ST i25 rims are a bit lighter too.
  • Drivetrain - Shimano XT 11 speed is marginally lighter than the SRAM NX stuff that came off.
  • Brakes - Shimano XT two piston units are also lighter than the SRAM stuff that came off.
  • Bars & Stem - I am running Renthal stem and bars, which are pretty close to the lightest Alu stuff out there.
  • Seat & dropper - WTB SL8 is lighter than the OEM seat. I guess there are lighter options than the OneUp V2 dropper, but like fork and shock the cost is really high!
Components where I think there is some potential weight savings left:
  • Rear wheel - The rear Hope Pro5 is a little lighter than the rear Novatech. Since I have to relace the wheel from 27.5" to 29" anyway I could grab a lighter rim. I think I could find ~350 grams here.
  • Tires - I suppose there is some potential here, but I am not sure. Are OEM Maxxis tires heavier than aftermarket tires for the same model? Seems dumb to replace brand new tires, but the goal is a lighter bike and this is potential a low cost (relatively speaking) way to do it.
  • Pedals - perhaps it is time that I replace my 15 year Time ATAC platform pedals, but I do like the platform. I also suspect that this ain't cheap...

Any other ideas?
 
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