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drops to flat

cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
frznnomad said:
wow i will say you got crazy balls doing drops with no front brake. i mean thats where the majority of my braking is done. you must do a lot of rear wheel slidding. ohh and i do have one question. why choose that frame over so man others that will acctually handle a monster. i mean i saw the other pics of that frame it was an oldschool AM setup????????????? i dont think i have been this confused since this morning.:huh: :huh: :huh:
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i got the bike for free from a friend last September with the stock suspension and it was a GIANT upgrade from my Costco Mongoose so i took it, learned on it and souped it up over a years time.
i've really only been riding since last september when i got the bike...
so really, i've been riding for only about a year...:biggrin: :biggrin:

i've managed to figure out pretty much everything in one year... even DH racing with only a rear brake... trial and error, trial and error, broken ribs and crushed ego, new parts and new ego, repeat once more and thats the story of my MTB life:bonk: :bonk:
 
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Anders

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
436
0
Carlsbad, CA, USA
i did about a 8 footer the other day. the front landed to flat, and the rear landed on like the last 1' of a transition. bottomed my shiver, but not my avy :clue:
 
noskcaj

noskcaj

Monkey
Oct 24, 2005
106
0
Northford, CT
i was riding at snowshoe and hit the racer's edge gap way too fast and landed in the grass, completely bottomed my bike hard. I would guess i was like 12' up at the peak, but thats not really a job, more of hip/jump.
 
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T3h1337r

Chimp
Sep 15, 2006
55
0
Nor Cal
I hucked off my 2nd story roof (only after a trial on the first story so I could set my rear shock to what I think I needed). Bottomed both front and back, but not bad. Ive bottomed out more freeriding at whistler.
 
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T3h1337r

Chimp
Sep 15, 2006
55
0
Nor Cal
O and drops to flat arent dumb, arent stupid, its only dumb and stupid if

A: you dont know what your doing

B: your bike isnt made for it

C: you ride the lil bus.

Look at bender. 54 1/2 feet. Yea it wasnt to flat, but o man, whens the last time you thought about jumping off a 4-6 story (not all building story's be the same. some be bigger some smaller) building.
Hes not dumb either. Hes flippen rad and one of the fellow pioneers into extreme freeriding. Its people like him that push the strength of bikes and protective gear to the limits, so we as normal riders can take advantage of their r and d. Kinda like race car saftey making it to normal production cars. :)
 
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T3h1337r

Chimp
Sep 15, 2006
55
0
Nor Cal
If anyone looking for the origional marzocchi monsters with 12in travel, I heard directly from marzocchi they have 6 forks left new never used in their wharehouse. Wait, make that 4. Just ordered 2 a few weeks ago :). Risse is also a good way to go for hardcore stuff but I found it flexed too much with their inverted big foots.
 
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nomav6

Chimp
Oct 14, 2005
22
0
drop to flats are ok when doing some urban riding, granted I dont see the point to build a trail with a drop to flat, but to say that if you do drop to flats your dumb, wtf quick being a bike nazi, why get mad that someone wants to do it, let them dont bite their head off.
 
Shortbus

Shortbus

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2002
1,013
6
Stuck in the 80s
or trials.

drops to flat can be fun, when one knows what the hell they're doing. the same actually falls for drops to trannies. A dumas on a drop to tranny isn't any more clever than said dumas on a drop to flat. I really don't understand this hype of bashing drops to flat and for that matter Bender but what the hell do i know.
 
frznnomad

frznnomad

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
2,226
0
a-town biatches
originally posted by T3h1337r
Look at bender. 54 1/2 feet. Yea it wasnt to flat, but o man, whens the last time you thought about jumping off a 4-6 story (not all building story's be the same. some be bigger some smaller) building.Hes not dumb either. Hes flippen rad and one of the fellow pioneers into extreme freeriding. Its people like him that push the strength of bikes and protective gear to the limits, so we as normal riders can take advantage of their r and d. Kinda like race car saftey making it to normal production cars.
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well lets see the last time i thought of hucking myself off a 54 1/2' cliff well was never. heres the kicker though he never really landed it either so that just makes it that much more retarded. bender has no style and no brains. all he does is throw his stupid ass karpiel off some ridiculous cliff and some little 12 year old thinks its cool. guys like bender arent used for bike test. its your racers that test the bikes limits and gears limits. thanks to your racers you have what you have today. i dont care who you are and how good you are (unless your a trials ridder) drops to flat are just stupid. it shows how little of a brain that you have and it accomplishes nothing other than breaking your ankles and your bike. okay rant over point of story is bender is old, retired, and is stupid. drops to flat have no purpose in life unless your a retard that rides the short bus. :bonk:
 
Shortbus

Shortbus

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2002
1,013
6
Stuck in the 80s
Unless one is riding trials then doing drops to flat makes one retarded? What if I'm doing trials on a RM7 does that make me pseudo-retarded?:biggrin:
 
gemini2k

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
frznnomad said:
i dont care who you are and how good you are (unless your a trials ridder) drops to flat are just stupid. it shows how little of a brain that you have and it accomplishes nothing other than breaking your ankles and your bike. okay rant over point of story is bender is old, retired, and is stupid. drops to flat have no purpose in life unless your a retard that rides the short bus. :bonk:
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wow u r dumb. i do drops to flat all the time and dont break me or my bike and never really get hurt excepot for the rare ankle stuffin'
 
frznnomad

frznnomad

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
2,226
0
a-town biatches
originally posted by gemini2k
wow u r dumb. i do drops to flat all the time and dont break me or my bike and never really get hurt excepot for the rare ankle stuffin'
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thank you so much for proving my point.:banghead: :banghead:

ohh yeh did i mention that i have had no ankle injuries due to the fact that i use my brain when i ride and think about a drop before i go and throw myself off of it.:cheers:
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
gemini2k said:
wow u r dumb. i do drops to flat all the time and dont break me or my bike and never really get hurt excepot for the rare ankle stuffin'
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exactly,
if you do them right, its not too bad... i try to convert the BMX style flat landings into my MTB- it seriously helps if you land very light on the bike and use your legs to absorb as much of the landing as you can.
i dont understand why some people dont get it, i ride with people who do drops all the time and they land very stiff on the bike and end up getting hurt or breaking something on their bike... and even after watching me land the same exact drop very smoothly, and even after i explain what i do, they still dont understand.

i'm 14 and if i can understand the physics of how to land a drop right, and most other people cant,... i feel like a friggin genius!!! i dont understand it.

and as i mentioned before, if you hit it with speed, your trajectory off the ledge will be very slack instead of very steep and the landing will be a helluva lot smoother. why do you think that there are normally decent length gaps after tall bridge-drops before the landing???? to motivate you to go faster!!!
and the ones that are very tall but have a very small gap usually have a very steep landing.
 
erikkellison

erikkellison

Monkey
Jan 28, 2004
918
0
Denver, CO
Wow, this thread makes me sad. Sure, being able to do drops to flat does take some skill to not break yourself or a your bike, but why not then just ride trials? They do huge drops to flat w/ no suspension whatsoever, and you may enjoy that kind of riding more if you're into dropping to flat. Jumps w/o trannies lack flow, and isn't freeriding all about flow? I would never hit a decent size drop on a trail if it required me to land flat, that just ruins the good smooth feeling of a trail.
People on here (RM) are more about racing DH than anything, so if you want support for dropping to flat and pictures and videos supporting it, I suggest you check out Pinkbike. There are a lot of teenagers who haven't learned yet that it's not much fun on a fully, and that it's also not a maintainable method of riding. I understand that if you don't have trannies, drops to flat are the next best thing - at least you're catching air. But if you're building a trail, you can most assuredly build a tranny. If not, then change the trail. Maybe you should look up some photos of the North Shore trails to get some ideas as to how to make a trail that flows w/ manmade stunts.
The guy who said he wanted a Monster T was joking, he was making fun. They're too heavy for most people, certainly a 14 year old rider (you don't look fat). Your bike is holding up because you don't weigh much, but give it time, you'll break it if you keep riding thinking that drops to flat are fun and worthy of admiration. They only people I've seen on Monsters were large people doing freeride (and by freeride I mean the accepted definition of riding trails with skinnies, drops, jumps and other stunts) and racing/riding DH. I'm sure you could find a better fork to suit your needs, but money and finding good used gear is always the issue. I'd be surprised if you even get all the travel out of your Monster.
So, it's like this. People have to learn for themselves. We can't tell you to not do drops to flat, but you will learn for yourself that they're not as much fun as riding a trail that flows, and also that things will begin to fail if you continue in this way.
Think of drops to flat this way: why do you not see many people just jumping off of roofs, out of trees, off of bridges? Because it hurts their knees and ankles (sans bike)! Now what does a bike do for you? Give you some extra cushion, but put the exact same stresses on your joints (and bike), so you're suffering the same way, just not as pronounced. So you then feel like you can do bigger drops to flat because you have a bike under you. Sure, it helps. But in the end things will go wrong. Why do you think racers work so hard to flow the course for speed? Because by making the course smooth, they roll faster down it. Bikes off of jumps w/ trannies work because you can absorb the impact by rolling down the incline at roughly the same rate of gravity, w/ some degree of the suspension ramping up. Drops to flat w/ no tranny basically have the same effect as if you were dropping off a roof with a pogo stick in hand. The rest of the bike is doing nothing for you.
And for pete's sake, get a front brake, you're going to learn to brake wrong if you don't have one. And you'll be a worse off rider for it.
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
all right dude, i know exactly where youre coming from.

and for my personal defense, here it is,

i do not build trails with required drops to flat, i do not think that they are more fun than a drop to a well placed tranny, i have learned that they can ruin your bike, i have a monster because i got it for a deal that i could not pass up, especially when i needed a fork as bad as i did before i got it, the fork will be around for a very long time, i weigh 165 and am gaining fast due to maturing.
have you ever ridden a Monster????????, has anyone else that complains about them ever ridden a Monster other than the people who actually have one??? yeah, theyre very heavy, but unless youre a perfectionist or a weight weenie, all they do is make the bike feel more stable.
what, do you think that when you are in the air that they "push" your front end down? uhhhhh, no, thats physicaly impossible for them to do that without a downward force on them from an outside element. . from what many people including me have experienced, they balance the bike out very well.

i know the other side to this arguement, but in the end, it all comes down to the rider. you can never blame the equipment. MTB, surfing, golf, skateboarding, snowboarding, basically everything that i do, i have learned this.

when i design a trail, i put in mind the thought process of any other downhiller- flow.

yes, we here on ridemonkey or more DH related than pinkbike and thats why i strayed over here from pinkbike.
i am not a hucker, i just do whatever the trail tells me to do, if you know what i mean.

i had no front brake for only a few weeks. trust me, i hated it because it limited what i could do on the bike. i was only missing one because i had no money for a new one once i got my fork. previously i had a Magura Julie, but then i got my fork and the Julie would not fit an 8in. rotor on the fork (only a 9in.) and i had no money to get a custom rotor from Galfer.
it did not affect my braking style in any way, i know by heart how and how not to brake.
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
I DO NOT THINK THAT DROPS TO FLAT ARE WORTHY OF ADMIRATION DAMMIT, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT!!!

oh yeah, once again- i got my bike for free and got good stuff for it.
i do plan to get a new frame in the near future once i have enough money for it. i know my bike will not hold up to heavy abuse from unplanned hucking for much longer.

just because i'm a teenager does not mean i'm a dumba$$,
i know what i need to do and i'm working on it. for me, it takes a long time to save up 1-2K all right??? it takes even longer for me to save up the money for a new frame when i have to maintain the one that i have now so that i can ride still.
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
i do not ride trials because i like speed, period.
yes, trials is cool- i have admiration for those guys because they posess mad skill. anyone who rides trials that is looking at this, congratulations, you have amazing ability to balance your bike on pretty much anything and do many things that i could never dream of doing on my bike. youre section of the sport is awesome.
but i just dont want to do it.
 
erikkellison

erikkellison

Monkey
Jan 28, 2004
918
0
Denver, CO
cheetaprowlerDH said:
all right dude, i know exactly where youre coming from.

and for my personal defense, here it is,

i do not build trails with required drops to flat, i do not think that they are more fun than a drop to a well placed tranny, i have learned that they can ruin your bike, i have a monster because i got it for a deal that i could not pass up, especially when i needed a fork as bad as i did before i got it, the fork will be around for a very long time, i weigh 165 and am gaining fast due to maturing.
have you ever ridden a Monster????????, has anyone else that complains about them ever ridden a Monster other than the people who actually have one??? yeah, theyre very heavy, but unless youre a perfectionist or a weight weenie, all they do is make the bike feel more stable.
what, do you think that when you are in the air that they "push" your front end down? uhhhhh, no, thats physicaly impossible for them to do that without a downward force on them from an outside element. . from what many people including me have experienced, they balance the bike out very well.

i know the other side to this arguement, but in the end, it all comes down to the rider. you can never blame the equipment. MTB, surfing, golf, skateboarding, snowboarding, basically everything that i do, i have learned this.

when i design a trail, i put in mind the thought process of any other downhiller- flow.

yes, we here on ridemonkey or more DH related than pinkbike and thats why i strayed over here from pinkbike.
i am not a hucker, i just do whatever the trail tells me to do, if you know what i mean.

i had no front brake for only a few weeks. trust me, i hated it because it limited what i could do on the bike. i was only missing one because i had no money for a new one once i got my fork. previously i had a Magura Julie, but then i got my fork and the Julie would not fit an 8in. rotor on the fork (only a 9in.) and i had no money to get a custom rotor from Galfer.
it did not affect my braking style in any way, i know by heart how and how not to brake.
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You have some impressive things to say for a 14 year old. Seriously.
And yes I've ridden a Monster, and while they're plush, they're just too heavy for most riders. You can tune a much lighter shock to perform just as well, and then your bike is more balanced. But if you have a heavy rear end, then maybe the Monster balances the bike out well. To each their own, I was just trying to help :)
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
erikkellison said:
You have some impressive things to say for a 14 year old. Seriously.
And yes I've ridden a Monster, and while they're plush, they're just too heavy for most riders. You can tune a much lighter shock to perform just as well, and then your bike is more balanced. But if you have a heavy rear end, then maybe the Monster balances the bike out well. To each their own, I was just trying to help :)
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no prob.,
just replying... in a defensive way:busted:

the monster??? well, ive just adapted to it and my 53 pound bike:biggrin:

:cheers:
 
giantrider89

giantrider89

Monkey
Oct 16, 2006
423
1
P-town, MN
I'm not sure all of you guys complaining about drops to flats on trails realy get what the original question meant. I think he was talking about either stair gaps and other such urban obstacles or an accidental flat landing....not many people build trails with jumps to flats on purpose....although if you that not a problem but you mite as well not take the time to build one if your not going to do a good job....
 
morethanjake543

morethanjake543

Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
479
0
Santa Cruz/Sacramento, Ca
cheetaprowlerDH said:
i'm 14 and if i can understand the physics of how to land a drop right, and most other people cant,... i feel like a friggin genius!!! i dont understand it.

and as i mentioned before, if you hit it with speed, your trajectory off the ledge will be very slack instead of very steep and the landing will be a helluva lot smoother. why do you think that there are normally decent length gaps after tall bridge-drops before the landing???? to motivate you to go faster!!!
and the ones that are very tall but have a very small gap usually have a very steep landing.
Click to expand...
Just a head's up -- the motion in your vertical (dropping) axis is independent from the motion you've got in your horizontal (left to right) axis. On flat landings, it doesn't matter how fast you go, you'll still hit with the same amount of momentum perpidicular to the ground. This changes once you take a tranny into consideration, but that's not what we're talking about.

So basically, hitting a drop to flat at any speed does the same thing. The only difference between going slow and going fast is how stable the bike is when you smack into the ground. Personally, I know that it punishes my bike and that my bike wasn't designed for it, so I don't do it. But really, this "Go faster and it'll be better" idea is moot.
 
cheetaprowlerDH

cheetaprowlerDH

Turbo Monkey
May 24, 2006
1,001
0
surviving the hell of the living deceased... VIST
morethanjake543 said:
Just a head's up -- the motion in your vertical (dropping) axis is independent from the motion you've got in your horizontal (left to right) axis. On flat landings, it doesn't matter how fast you go, you'll still hit with the same amount of momentum perpidicular to the ground.
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when you land, you will put the same amount of force on the bike to the ground.
but what you have to put in mind is trajectory off the lip,

when you go off the lip at a slow speed, you drop down and your forward momentum is not so much, therefore causing you to slow significantly and making the drop feel alot more harsh.

when you go off the lip at a high speed, you land farther away from the drop with an amount of forward momentum significantly higher than the amount of forward momentum when you hit it slower, causing you to still lose a good amount of speed when you land, but not lose too much and get bucked, therefore making the drop feel alot smoother.

to the body, the drop feels smoother because you do not get bucked as much, yet to the bike it is the same because you land with the same force and weight as you would just rolling off at a low speed.
 
morethanjake543

morethanjake543

Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
479
0
Santa Cruz/Sacramento, Ca
You get bucked just as much, it's just that the wheels are turning faster and the ride is more stable.

The only reason it's going to feel less harsh is because you'll be spending more time concentraiting on other things.

But yeah, I see your point. If you really enjoy this, then you don't need physics to justify it. We're just being a-holes. It's the internet, don't worry.
 
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