[mattmatt86]

I picked up a 2008 EC-D frame which has a 1.5" HT so I was considering putting a Totem on the bike rather than the usual Boxxer. My budget allows for either a Solo Air Totem or a Boxxer Team, unless I find a WC cheap enough. I haven't seen any out there but I was wondering if anyone has ridden an EC-D with a Single Crown or knows if there would be any issues?

Thanks

 

[FCLinder]

Matt, if you plan to race that bike get the Boxxer over the Totem. You know I have played around with the Totem and its a great fork, but the Tripple Crown will out perform it every time.

Just my 2 cents.

Cecil

 

[Leppah]

I have a couple of buddies that have totems on their bikes. I think there were a few Demo 7's and a Perp. They thought they were great until they rode with a few of us that have DH forks. We hit some steep, rocky runs and could go a lot faster with the slacker head angle and extra stability of the bigger fork. They all ended up getting bigger forks the next season. They said it wasn't so much the head angle or extra inch of travel, but also the confidence they got with the bigger fork.

i'd just get the bigger fork. But i don't like to second guess my equipment. The last thing i want to think about when flying down a run is "does this fork work that good? I think i can feel it flexin. Maybe i should've gotten a bigger one."

 

[mattmatt86]

If I were gonna go with a boxxer should I bother looking for a WC I can afford or should I just go with a team.

 

[Leppah]

Eh. If it were me, i'd just get the Team and make sure it's set up for my weight. I can't afford a WC, and i wouldn't want one if i could afford it. I'm a tight wad. i just use what i have. I don't need the coolest thing with the most dials. I end up messing with them so much that they end up working like crap and i think that's how it's supposed to work. For me, i like simplicity. Compression and rebound is all i like and all i really need. I don't race for a career, so that stuff is just money not well spent. I like having money for other things too though. So i'd just get the Team if it were me. I'd actually get a Marzocchi fork if i could find one. That's all i've ever ridden and they always hold up really well. I just get the seals and oil changed a few times a season and i'm good.

 

[chic06]

The only difference is the spring and consequently the weight. the World Cup saves like 3/4 of a pound over the team. I have ridden both and would recommend the team because it seems to be more plush and sensitive. All the world cups i've felt have tended to be a bit sticky in my opinion.

 

[mattmatt86]

Thanks, I think I'm going to go with the Team then.

 

[Hesh To Steel]

There was an EC-D for sale in the Ridemonkey or pinkbike classifieds with a 66 on it. Pretty sure the ad is still active so you could find it and PM that guy to see what his thoughts were.

It always throws me when I see a DH bike with a single crown fork for some reason. Especially a super long travel rig like a V10, but I guess it can sometimes help to get the geometry you want if you don't care about the small loss in travel.

 

[miuan]

Isn't the a2c height of a 66 or domain/totem pretty much the same as a boxxer, hence the same geo? Moreover, I feel confident to say you might end up with a tiny bit slacker angle on a totem than on a boxxer, since you're supposed to run more sag on a fork that has more travel.
Running a SC is cool, sure. Unless you happen to crash and mess you cables and hoses... finally, a well tuned boxxer race may challenge or even outperform a stock team fork. Just do the Udi's mod to set a lighter floodgate and take your time to get the perfect LSC setting. You'll be fine.

 

[DirtyMike]

NOt an ECD. But I run a 66 for DH. Its Effin great, the AtC is actually 5mm longer than the 2010 boxxer. My current setup, 08 blindside, 07 66 fork. 13.8 BB and a 64 degree HTA. I even remeasured it today to make sure I read it right the first time. No reason not to run the SC if you want to run it. The reinforced steerers are plenty storng. BUT, very important to point out, the SC forks really are not a weight saver, My 66 is about an 1/8 of a pound lighter than an 888 with the same valving. But, it sure is nice to have the SC when it comes to nice tight quick ass corners

Here is a pic.

 

[Curler]

I have a goose with a 66 and no problems at all except that its too small thats why im selling . Heres the link for the pic.

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/399445/

 

[jackalope]

Switched out my 2006 888 RCX2 with a 2008 Totem coil, and so far I can't say the DC provided any meaningful advantage for me. Maybe I would feel differently if I had a Boxxer WC, or was actually a real pinner, but the Totem has been fine in my admittedly brief experience with it. It is definitely lighter than my old 888, and every bit as stiff (if not moreso IMO). It also seems to give the bike a more playful feel, and I cannot tell the difference in terms of HA (altho, it may be a little shorter A2C). I would say it's not as mushy in the beginning part of the stroke like my 888 was, but otherwise eats up the rough stuff pretty well.

Besides, it provides a ready-made excuse if I crash or otherwise suck on my race runs..."If I had a DC, I'm sure I would've finished a minute or two faster..."

 

[DirtyMike]

Oh stiffness on the new SC forks is rediculous. I seriously cannot tell a differnce in stiffness from my 66 to its 888 counterpart.

 

[tuumbaq]

You'll be fine with a SC Totem on your frame but as other mentioned, it all as to do with what you are after more than frame issues.

If you think you'll be more "freeriding", cruising down the hill at a decent speed and want something more versatile, than go for the Totem.

If you are a born pinner, you WILL need a Boxxer or similar fork, no doubt about it.Personally I have yet to try a SC that had great suspension attribute.They either felt too stiff ( due to the steer tube I suppose ) and had a serious lack of small bump sensitivity or they'd simply have****ty LSC and would dive in under serious braking.

Not saying it cannot be "tweaked" at all but at the end of the end, I always feel that I'm trying to turn something that wasnt meant to be what you want it to be.

I will avoid going deeper into this as Im affraid I will start a crazy debate but Im pretty sure this topic has been covered at least a hundred times on this forum.

Simply try to think of how may pro DH dudes are running SC fork....None.( For 99% of the courses )Even if you wont be moving nearly as fast as those guys are, you'd still think they know what they are doing better than you.

Lighting fast speeds = triple clamp
Versatility = SC

good luck!

 

[ciszewski]

If were playing that game; I run a Totem Solo Air on a Demo 8 and love it so far. I had a Boxxer Ride on my old bike (same travel, almost, so it's a decent comparison) and I can feel no difference in stiffness (I can't in most parts due to my weight).

 

[Leppah]

If you want a World Cup, here's a killer deal in Utah. About 50 miles from me. $900, never been used.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=5969173&cat=191&lpid=

 

[mattmatt86]

Uhhh, Now I don't know what to do. I'm definitely going to be doing more general riding and shuttling than racing but I don't know which I would like more. I've never actually owned a bike with a DC fork so I don't have anything to compare it to.

 

[lachy_mtb]

i had a totem coil on my orange 223, which was used for racing and just practice etc. at the local tracks. And they great! With the mission control i could get them alot more dialed in then the boxxers or 888s i had used before. They shaved abit more weight off the front end which was great and due to the set up i was running it got the front end a little lower. Unless your racing like world cup or something i really dont think they are going to slow you down. I didnt think the fork at any point seemed to hold me back, then running a boxxer. the travel was enough for every track i rode.
A aussie guy (shaun o'connor) used them for racing world cup and they seemed to hold up just fine.
the only thing that could be annoying is the maitenance of the totem, since the one you said is air and the boxxers are spring, but thats about it.

 

[Leppah]

If you haven't ever had a DC fork, then you don't really know what you're missing out on. There's a reason that most people with big travel bikes runs them. But if you've never ridden a bike with one, you probably wouldn't really need one. I like the DC forks cuz i'm kinda heavy (230 with all my gear on). I can feel pretty much every single crown fork flex under turns and braking. I rode a DC fork a long time ago and won't ever go to a single crown for riding DH. You can go a lot faster on a DC fork. They're a lot more stable. I'd rather have a DC fork just so i'm not having to second guess my SC fork when trying to keep up with my buddies through the rocky trails.

 

[DirtyMike]

If you haven't ever had a DC fork, then you don't really know what you're missing out on. There's a reason that most people with big travel bikes runs them. But if you've never ridden a bike with one, you probably wouldn't really need one. I like the DC forks cuz i'm kinda heavy (230 with all my gear on). I can feel pretty much every single crown fork flex under turns and braking. I rode a DC fork a long time ago and won't ever go to a single crown for riding DH. You can go a lot faster on a DC fork. They're a lot more stable. I'd rather have a DC fork just so i'm not having to second guess my SC fork when trying to keep up with my buddies through the rocky trails.

First note, I have had both. both 07 888rc2 and 07 66 rc2. same valving, same level of fork, one dual, one single. No you cannot feel a difference in the two I outweight you by 20 pounds without the gear on. Spring them right, and your not going to notice the difference.


Reason most people with big travel stay away from singlecrowns.... is because most are afraid of change. they just cannot grasp in there mind that the reinforced steerers are more than strong enough for full blown DH use. the AtC on the two I had was the friggin same. You cannot tell a difference in Geo between the two<least the two I had> You also didnt notice the differenc int ravel, sorry but the 888 was only gaining an inch.



Last part, if you could get past the idea that a single crown fork is inferior to the DC fork, you wouldnt be second guessing your equipment.


Only advantage I see nowadays to running a DC, is when you crash. You cant spin your bars and get your lines tangled. No broken brake lines taking you out of a race, no ripped shifter cables.






Bottom line, for every advantage, there is a disadvantage.





P.S. Years ago, you could def tell a difference in the two, thats a thing of the past. A DC fork isnt going to make you faster unless your just holding back because your afraid of teh SC fork.

 

[wanabe]

Most dual crowns have another inch of travel over the SCs. That can make a differince. The thing I like a bout a dual crown is the weight distribution. More weight is moved under the handle bars making it easier to manual and gives me a much more positive feel when diving into corners. I think they are more stable in the air too. Might be my mind playing tricks on me, but when I swithched to the DC it made an improvement in my riding.

 

[Leppah]

Reason most people with big travel stay away from singlecrowns.... is because most are afraid of change. they just cannot grasp in there mind that the reinforced steerers are more than strong enough for full blown DH use. the AtC on the two I had was the friggin same. You cannot tell a difference in Geo between the two<least the two I had> You also didnt notice the differenc int ravel, sorry but the 888 was only gaining an inch.



Last part, if you could get past the idea that a single crown fork is inferior to the DC fork, you wouldnt be second guessing your equipment.

I have to disagree with you on a few things.

I've got a 888 on my DH bike that's set up just how i like it. i wouldn't go to a single crown on my DH bike just because i'm not willing to spend extra coin on going with a single crown Dh fork with less travel and a little bit different geo. I think most people that have DH bikes with dual crown forks AREN't going to change to single crown just to change. No reason to.

Sure, they're only an inch different in travel. But there's a reason they add an inch. An inch makes a difference when it comes to travel and setup. Obviously. If adding or taking away an inch of travel didn't matter or didn't make a difference, then there wouldn't be so many different forks with an inch less or more in travel. Same with the bikes.

When i talk about second guessing my equipment, i'm talking about the safety issues. Not the performance. I could feel my single crown forks flex under braking. I hated that feeling.

You have to admit, if single crown forks were so good for downhill............why isn't Sam Hill, or Greg Minaar riding one for their WC races? They can ride whatever fork they want from their sponsor, but they still ride dual crown. None of the top worlds riders use single crown forks. none. None of the top ranked national riders use them for DH either. Why do you think that is? Is it because they're afraid to change too?

Around here, you don't need a single crown fork for DH. The trails aren't so tight that you need one. We also don't have a lot of that ewok stuff out here either. No bridges. So the "advantage" of riding a single crown DH fork isn't worth the $$ out here.

Why do people DH on single crown forks anyway? Is it like BMXing? Only the cool guys make it harder for themselves by riding without brakes? Is it the cool thing now? Or do you guys want to barspin and tailwhip in the middle of your runs?

 

[tuumbaq]

Well said Leppah. For some reason some people really want the SC to be better than a DC simply because THEY cant feel the difference in performance a DC has over a SC.

Like I said it before, if you are serious about racing your bike downhill,get a Boxxer or F40, a Totem isnt a racing fork, end of the story.

On the other hand, if you are not sure wheter you'll be pinning it ALL THE TIME and think you might need something more versatile, then you'd probably be more than ok with a SC, otherwise you 'd know already and wouldnt be asking for advice I think.

There's no shame about it, to each is own.Some of my very best riding buddies are more into "freeriding" than racing down the hill and they have Totems on their bikes.Unless if we are going down some fast wide open trails or gnarly chutes, they can keep up and even be a ahead of the group,well sometimes... ;-)

The SC suit their styles and what they like about riding their bike.Would they be a lot quicker with DC forks? Maybe, perhaps not a whole lot but a tad bit quicker for sure.At the end of the day, they would probably miss their SC fork for most of the stuff they like to ride though.

 

[DirtyMike]

I have to disagree with you on a few things.

I've got a 888 on my DH bike that's set up just how i like it. i wouldn't go to a single crown on my DH bike just because i'm not willing to spend extra coin on going with a single crown Dh fork with less travel and a little bit different geo. I think most people that have DH bikes with dual crown forks AREN't going to change to single crown just to change. No reason to.

Sure, they're only an inch different in travel. But there's a reason they add an inch. An inch makes a difference when it comes to travel and setup. Obviously. If adding or taking away an inch of travel didn't matter or didn't make a difference, then there wouldn't be so many different forks with an inch less or more in travel. Same with the bikes.

When i talk about second guessing my equipment, i'm talking about the safety issues. Not the performance. I could feel my single crown forks flex under braking. I hated that feeling.

You have to admit, if single crown forks were so good for downhill............why isn't Sam Hill, or Greg Minaar riding one for their WC races? They can ride whatever fork they want from their sponsor, but they still ride dual crown. None of the top worlds riders use single crown forks. none. None of the top ranked national riders use them for DH either. Why do you think that is? Is it because they're afraid to change too?

Around here, you don't need a single crown fork for DH. The trails aren't so tight that you need one. We also don't have a lot of that ewok stuff out here either. No bridges. So the "advantage" of riding a single crown DH fork isn't worth the $$ out here.

Why do people DH on single crown forks anyway? Is it like BMXing? Only the cool guys make it harder for themselves by riding without brakes? Is it the cool thing now? Or do you guys want to barspin and tailwhip in the middle of your runs?

I respect what you say here, and we can dissagreee. By no means am I saying one should switch to single crown just because its better or anything like that. If I were building myself a bike that I would be racing for world cup, and tahts all Iwould be using it for..... I would probably go with the DC fork, just because. But at the same time, I can only afford one bike, and I ride the same bike I race..... I have a single crown on it.....I bought it when I was building my last bike, and it still runs strong.

I run single rown because It was cheaper when I was building my bike, I am not sure where people get the idea that SC costs more. ANd for an answer to why people are DHing on single crowns......Because its More friggin versitile.



Reason you dont see the top guys running them, is actually a simple asnwer, you can adjust the AtC easily, you can also swap crowns if you damage one, both things you cannot do with a SC fork, twist a steerer, its an easy fix, crash on a run, you know your cables arent twisted around the bars. There are most def advantages to be had with the DC fork for race only application. That is something I can absolutly see and admit, and point out even to myself.



The whole point to be had is, that single crown forks< the ones of these days> can More than handle any DH thrown at them. The Geo from the 07 888 on my bike, and the 07 66 is the same, it just steepens more when you go through the travel. I measured it to be sure, its 64.5 HTA with both. But I can slide the crowns a bit on the 888 to fine tune it better.




I will also admit I do not have time on either the Boxxer and teh Totem, I cannot compare those two, Nor a 40 and a 36<Obviously the 40 is a better choice for DH, its two inches more travel> I am simply putting out what I have had time on, the 888 and the 66, both the same valveing, both the same setup, both the same Geo. Of those two, I cannot feel a difference in stiffness while turning, But compare the 888 to the manitouSherman I used to have, there was a defenite differnce in Stiffness, at the same time, I went from a DC Manitou sherman to the 66, and the 66 was immensly stiffer. Just remember to compare apples to apples. I have been trying ti keep to the two products through out this discussion.



Please see, I understand why a DC fork is actually better for a full blown race application, I am just really pushing the fact that Single crowns are just as capable for DH.

 

[Leppah]

I totally see your point.

If i could only have 1 bike, i'd be torn. More than likely i'd just end up getting a 6 inch travel bike like a GT Sanction or a Cannondale Moto and run a 66 fork on it.

 

[mattmatt86]

I actually think that because I've never owned a DC before I'm going to give it a try. I'm probably just going to go with the Team and use the money saved from not getting the WC to go to some races.

 

[juanbeegas]

I think the only reason to run a DC over a SC for a race, would be the ability to run a direct mount stem on the DC. In a crash, you just pick up the bike with a DM and your bars are still going to be pointing straight. I've hit trees on numerous occasions and had to continue my run with crooked steering...