[Cave Dweller]

Did a search and couldn't find the info.

Does the listed weight of the ex823 of 657grams include the eyelets? If not, how much extra weight do they add.

Do you need a special tool to get the inserts in and out, and is this included with the rim purchase? Do you use some kind of thread locker to stop them undoing themselves?

I did read that its easy to cross thread the nipples, butchering the rims? Any comments?

I also read of people ripping the eyelets directly from the rim. Has this happened to any monkeys?

Do the rims still hold with tubless tires when they get dinged up?

Is there really any weight advantage if you end up having to use heavier tires and rims??

Thanks

 

[Fury]

Did a search and couldn't find the info.

Does the listed weight of the ex823 of 657grams include the eyelets? If not, how much extra weight do they add.

When I weighed my 32 hole Deemax rims they came out at 730grams... not sure if thats right or not as I see 657g everywhere else. The 730g included eyelets but I see them listed at 590g + 60g for eyelets on the starbike weightweenies page.

Do you need a special tool to get the inserts in and out, and is this included with the rim purchase? Do you use some kind of thread locker to stop them undoing themselves?

You need a special tool, it isn't included. Blue loctite works.

I did read that its easy to cross thread the nipples, butchering the rims? Any comments?

I haven't heard of such a thing. Don't be hamfisted and it shouldn't be a problem.

I also read of people ripping the eyelets directly from the rim. Has this happened to any monkeys?

Negative.

Do the rims still hold with tubless tires when they get dinged up?

I put gouges in the rims when I was running too little air on a rocky course, my Michelin tires would still seal and hold air. However, when I put a big flatspot in the rim I had trouble mounting some tires because the whole side sits away from the bead.

Is there really any weight advantage if you end up having to use heavier tires and rims??

ex823 rim (730) + Michelin Comp 24 2.5" tire (1280) = 2010g
d721 rim (590) + Michelin Comp 24 2.5" tire (1280) + Maxxis DH tube (448) = 2318g

Thanks

Your welcome!

 

[no skid marks]

Not sure of weights but I'm guessing they're a bit more than 321.the bennefit is no pinch flats,lower pressure,less rolling resistence.
In the comparo above it's not acurate ,a more accurate comparison would be with a tubless and non tubless Maxxis tyre.
I'm running 823s and have smashed the **** out of it,it's got some flat spots from cassing the old Lapston double a few times and other square lipped doubles. It only has one real ding but and the rim kisses the ground at least three times in a run at old Bathurst.
I'm only running it on the rear at the moment and decided to run a single track on the front but that was a bad choice and I bought a Dee Max front to build up for the front(rim+Hub). My 823+old Michelin set up needs pumping up before every ride at the moment from a slow leak,but I'm too lazy to fix it. Mine has pulled a nipple holder out a bit from the flat spot but it's not got worse,I'm not sure what affect my over tightened TI spokes have played in the rims demise. I rate it as the strongest rim I've used to date,I've not run Intensemags/Suns but thats cause they're just to damn heavy.
I have the tool,the lock tight and two spare 823s if you wanna grab one. I'll build it up for $$190 if I have the right length spokes and $170(that's Aussie $) if you get the spokes.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Do you need a special tool to get the inserts in and out, and is this included with the rim purchase? Do you use some kind of thread locker to stop them undoing themselves?

Yes you need a special tool to install & remove the inserts, it does not come with the rim. You need to use blue loc-tite for the inserts.

 

[Cave Dweller]

When I weighed my 32 hole Deemax rims they came out at 730grams... not sure if thats right or not as I see 657g everywhere else. The 730g included eyelets but I see them listed at 590g + 60g for eyelets on the starbike weightweenies page.

Thanks, that makes sense. I think the one on weight weenies is the older lighter model, so 657+60 ~ 730grams, so its weighed without the nipples.

Do you run some stans in there as well??

Thanks NSM, but im thinking of buying a new wheel set at the moment.

 

[Fury]

I just weighed a rim again, using my scale, and it weighs 690g without the nipples or valve stem. I'm not sure if the Deemax rim (32h) I have is the same as the 823 rim but I would assume it is...

I think Stans works for thorns but I don't know that it works for much else. It seems that when I flat I do it properly - i.e. ripping my tires apart on the rocks cuz I'm running too little air. Stans has never worked for that type of stuff and it is a PITA to use the stuff in a race parking lot when you gotta clean your rims off after every tire change.

 

[skyst3alth]

Yes you need a special tool to install & remove the inserts, it does not come with the rim. You need to use blue loc-tite for the inserts.

Someone told me I had to buy a special tool, but I ended up finding one in my garage:

 

[360]

Did a search and couldn't find the info.

I did read that its easy to cross thread the nipples, butchering the rims? Any comments?

I also read of people ripping the eyelets directly from the rim. Has this happened to any monkeys?

Do the rims still hold with tubless tires when they get dinged up?

Is there really any weight advantage if you end up having to use heavier tires and rims??

Thanks

No problems cross threading here.

I did rip a bunch of eyelets out of an 04 ex823, however the wheel would have died anyway in that crash. No problems with my 05 ex823s.

Minor dings still hold air.

Most of the tubeless tyres are the same(ie comp16) or i believe maxxis tubeless are lighter than standard.

My primary reasons for running for running them is the strength, the resist dings much better than other mavic rims, my current wheel set is a season old and only has a minor ding on the rear, ex721s and the like ding far easier in my experience. I like their width too, seems to suit my thinner (2.2 and 2.35) tyre choice.

Its also nice to have your tyres lock onto the rim like that even when im running tubes, you know you tyre is seated perfectly.

 

[big-ted]

Its also nice to have your tyres lock onto the rim like that even when im running tubes, you know you tyre is seated perfectly.

Sam, this is one reason I hate my 823's. If I stick a tube in, the tyre doesn't sit straight on the rim. I can pump it up to 80psi and it still wont lock straight. In fact, the tyre is uneven to the point I can feel the wobble through the bike whilst riding. Take out tube, fill with sealant, and all is good, at least until I take a slice out the tyre casing and it all goes flat...

My old 321 (new 729) is WAY stiffer than my 823, though granted the 823 seems to be resisting sidewall dings a bit better.

I've had no luck with my 823's. I know I'm in the minority though, I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I want to try a brand of tyre other than Michelin to at least remove that from the equation.

 

[CBJ]

Big-ted give the Maxxis Tubeless a try.

 

[Biscuit]

Sam, this is one reason I hate my 823's. If I stick a tube in, the tyre doesn't sit straight on the rim. I can pump it up to 80psi and it still wont lock straight.

This is exactly what I don't like about mine. Even using soapy water and lots of coaxing I've still hit clost to 100 psi before the bead sets.

 

[360]

technique then, i never pump up above 60psi and get them to seat, if not on the first go then the second, abit of pulling about with my fingers and thats it.

Brand new tyres are the worst, if i really cant get one to seat correctly I'll do a run with it unseated, deflate then inflate. thats worked everytime.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Big-ted give the Maxxis Tubeless a try.

Im fairly disappointed with the UST maxxis selection. DHFs only in 2.5 super tackey. Thats the major draw back in going UST. Im not a fan of the ST compound, wears too quick imo.

Can you run the michy comp 16 front and rear like i do with my DHF minions??

What UST tires are people using for DH in dry, dusty conditions.

 

[Fury]

Dry hardpack I'm using Michelin Comp 24.
Loose anything I use Michelin Comp 16.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Dry hardpack I'm using Michelin Comp 24.
Loose anything I use Michelin Comp 16.

Front and rear, same tires? Reason i ask, im a tight arse, i switch tires front to back to save $$. Does the comp 16 ride like a minion DHF, looks like it would.

How does the michy soft rubber hold up, is it like a super tackey or slow reezay?

 

[Fury]

I haven't ridden Maxxis tires so I can't comment on how the two brands compare. I prefer to run a Comp 16f, comp 24r combo as I find the comp24 lasts longer as a rear tire than a comp16 does.

 

[davep]

Im not a fan of the ST compound, wears too quick imo.

Can you run the michy comp 16 front and rear like i do with my DHF minions??

What UST tires are people using for DH in dry, dusty conditions.

So what compound do you run slow reezzaayy? Seems like it holds up a little better, but they are very hard to find in the USA. Not sure why Maxxis sells ceretain tires to only certain markets.

I run Mich 99% of the time, problem is that we dont get dusty conditions much, so i dont have a ton of personal experience.
Foe sure though... The comp 16 will be a bit squirmy on any hard conditions. The 2.2 is a little less so, but it still has large side knobs designed for soft terrain. My favorite (and most vertile) Mich tire for drier conditions is the 24. I do not run it stock however, all my 24s get the side knob trim job. You can trin more if you want to get more penetration. The more round profile of the 24 just seems to work better in harder terrain.

 

[Cave Dweller]

I haven't ridden Maxxis tires so I can't comment on how the two brands compare. I prefer to run a Comp 16f, comp 24r combo as I find the comp24 lasts longer as a rear tire than a comp16 does.

Ok, thanks. Think i will stick with minions if i go tubeless.

Just have to decide if its worth it, did a calc and i can save approx 300-350 grams of rotational weight, no doubt it would make it ride better but its an expensive change over.

 

[Cave Dweller]

So what compound do you run slow reezzaayy? Seems like it holds up a little better, but they are very hard to find in the USA. Not sure why Maxxis sells ceretain tires to only certain markets.

I run Mich 99% of the time, problem is that we dont get dusty conditions much, so i dont have a ton of personal experience.
Foe sure though... The comp 16 will be a bit squirmy on any hard conditions. The 2.2 is a little less so, but it still has large side knobs designed for soft terrain. My favorite (and most vertile) Mich tire for drier conditions is the 24. I do not run it stock however, all my 24s get the side knob trim job. You can trin more if you want to get more penetration. The more round profile of the 24 just seems to work better in harder terrain.

Slow reezays are in australia everywhere, infact they are easier to get then super tackeys. i ahve 3 brand spankers at home. Can get the 2.35 slow reezay minions too (with the Dh casing). I was thinking about giving them a go, they should bite into the dust better rather then **aquaplane** over it.

No way in hell am i cutting treads off tires, i have read good things about that cut but its just too much hassle for me. And michy tires are $30aus more expensive per tire.

 

[davep]

Front and rear, same tires? Reason i ask, im a tight arse, i switch tires front to back to save $$. Does the comp 16 ride like a minion DHF, looks like it would.

How does the michy soft rubber hold up, is it like a super tackey or slow reezay?

The Mich rubber seems to last a TON longer than the ST maxxis rubber, and a bit longer than the rezzzzzzzzay. I have had very few issues with knob 'peeling'. The Mich tire seem to wear down as tires 'should'. No chunking or knob loss to speak of. Seems as though the reezayyyy is softer than the mich, but i hav ebeen impressed with mich traction.

 

[davep]

. And michy tires are $30aus more expensive per tire.

Another one of those wierd import things. Mich and Maxxis are roughly the same $$ here. I will agree with the cutting pain, but for me it is only a couple of tires a season. I would like to see a few more Mich DH tires added to the program. They have xc/at/am tires comming out their a$$es. Way too many overlaps in that market, they could EASILY make another DH tire or two and fill in the gaps and eliminate the need for cutting tires to make something new.

 

[1soulrider]

No, the Minion is better in a wider range of conditions. The comp 16 seems to like mud, deep dust and pumice. Loose and deep is where the comp 16 does best (imo). Minions seen do well almost everywhere, although maybe not as great on pure fast hardpack.

Mitchy soft rubber lasts waaaaay longer than Maxxis 40 or 42
compound. Maybe even longer than Maxxis 60 compound.
This is my opinion after riding both Maxxis and Mitchys extensively for the last year.
As always, your experience may vary..............

 

[frorider]

Thanks, that makes sense. I think the one on weight weenies is the older lighter model, so 657+60 ~ 730grams, so its weighed without the nipples.

Do you run some stans in there as well??

Thanks NSM, but im thinking of buying a new wheel set at the moment.

no, the older version was about 100 g lighter---around 570 g + 60 g nipples.

the main reason i'm liking the 823 fr/rear on my all-round fr/dh bike is the ease of use factor. the tires i've used from conti, specialized, geax all mounted extremely easily. no soap needed. just work the bead around into the channel, pull the last part on after putting in a small amount of Stan's and a small amount of green slime, pump up to 50 psi, then deflate down to 25 or so. the beads seat perfectly every time for me, long before it gets up to 50 psi.

hrug:

 

[no skid marks]

I've found no need for liquid goop,I do have a slow leak but I don't mind as I get to check my pressures and experiment. It never leaked untl I've smashed it and has flat spot,large ding and an old dirty Michy tyre.
Tim(Tim N Sam) dented the **** out of a new 729(321) in one ride at Ol B while my six month old 823 copped the same abuse without a ding,I probablly smash it more as I only run 20-25psi in the back. He's probablly smoother than me to although I'm a bit lighter.
I have a new tubless Maxxis 2.5 also if you cant find one.
Cough Ti Spring ding ding.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

Ok, thanks. Think i will stick with minions if i go tubeless.

im about to go tubeless soon, and im not even using a ust tire, the high roller 3C is working out great for me, 2.5 front and rear, hell, i'd run 2.35 rear if i could find it with dh casing like the aussie mentioned

 

[Eurotrash]

So how do the 3c tyres last compare to the michelin for grip and wear?

 

[DIRTWRKS]

So how do the 3c tyres last compare to the michelin for grip and wear?

Started using the Minion DHF and DHR "3C" variety after riding Michelin for a couple of years now and I find they wear about the same as a Comp 24 which is good.
However the Maxxis are much less prone to pinch flats or ripping the sidewalls which was a frequent problem with the Comp 16 for me.

 

[Eurotrash]

ok Thanks
I ride minion DHF front and rear Super Tacky and they wear quite fast.
Anyone compared ST and 3c Back to back for grip?

 

[Kntr]

ok Thanks
I ride minion DHF front and rear Super Tacky and they wear quite fast.
Anyone compared ST and 3c Back to back for grip?

I would like to know this too.

ANYONE??