Can you believe he's coming back? He just inked a 3 year deal to race road and mountain and says he's shooting for the 2008 Olympics.
Tyler should be exempt from the EPO mafia. I know this is a dead topic, but he has kept fighting and fighting whereas Millar and Meirhaeghe took their penalties without a fight.Just James said:Though I do kinda feel that everyone should be given a second chance, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Look at Millar too, he'll be Horner's teammate next year (this year now I guess, eh?).
The same is gonna happen when Tyler comes back, because you know he will too.
I'd think that the shame would keep him away, mountain biking is a much, much, much smaller and tighter-knit sport than road, there are really only a couple of guys up for a win on any given day.
I say let them try and prove that he can do it without the juice, and if he fails, so be it.
JJames
What? no, if anything you should have more respect for the guys who get caught and admit it, instead of the pathetic snivelling self-centered liars like Hamilton pit:sanjuro said:Tyler should be exempt from the EPO mafia. I know this is a dead topic, but he has kept fighting and fighting whereas Millar and Meirhaeghe took their penalties without a fight.
I agree he's not the EPO guys like M & M, but he was blood doping. He didn't argue the fact that he had two different types of blood in his system, just argued how they got there. I like him a lot, and I want to give him the benifit of the doubt, but arguing this chimera/ghost twin thing just kind of bugged me.sanjuro said:Tyler should be exempt from the EPO mafia. I know this is a dead topic, but he has kept fighting and fighting whereas Millar and Meirhaeghe took their penalties without a fight.
It is hard for me to believe Tyler blood doped with someone else's blood. The chimera/twin defense was BS, but when faced with a BS charge, what else was he going to do?Just James said:I agree he's not the EPO guys like M & M, but he was blood doping. He didn't argue the fact that he had two different types of blood in his system, just argued how they got there. I like him a lot, and I want to give him the benifit of the doubt, but arguing this chimera/ghost twin thing just kind of bugged me.
If he's faced with a BS charge, fight it tooth and nail, don't make up a super-flimsy defense for something that you didn't do.sanjuro said:It is hard for me to believe Tyler blood doped with someone else's blood. The chimera/twin defense was BS, but when faced with a BS charge, what else was he going to do?
Maybe I am wrong, but I think Tyler will never admit to this charge. Is is an unrepenant liar and cheat, or an innocent man?
The only thing about the blood doping test is all that it does is prove you took someone else's blood, not your own.Just James said:If he's faced with a BS charge, fight it tooth and nail, don't make up a super-flimsy defense for something that you didn't do.
I'm not super familiar with his case, but I'm pretty sure that it'd be hard to prove that someone was blood doping with their own blood, and much easier to find blood that was someone else's, hence his chimera defense. Old-school blood-doping, before all of these newfangled chemicals and elixers.
I don't want to judge him, I don't know him, I don't know the whole case, there could be something huge that he knows that I'm missing. But I'm all for him when/if (and I'm sure he will) he comes back.
Doping is a slippery slope even to talk about. What I don't want to do is get into a discussion with cool peeps on my favorite site about stuff that we're probably never going to agree on, and has been beaten to death.
To sum up: I'm a big Tyler fan. I don't know if I believe him, but I'm willing to forgive. Same goes for Virenque, Millar, Meirhaeghe. And here's a blast from the past: Jerome Chiotti...
Thanks for posting that. I found a quick history page TdF 1930 where it mentioned races of 5000 kilometers. Compare this to this year's TdF of 3639 km.Muuqi said:Interesting point of view in the latest Cycle Sport America magazine. . .
"I believe we expect too much from professional cyclists. We want them to be superhuman not only physically, but mentally and spiritually. We expect them to ride 200 km a day for 20 days at 50 km/hr, with only two days of rest inbetween, on pasta, vitamins and strength of heart. . ."
". . .Could it be that the distances, frequencies, and intensities of the races we expect our riders to race were established in a time when dope controls were inaccurate or non-existant, giving us a false reading as to human capability and endurance?"
". . .the sport we love so much will be tainted to the point where it will disappear or become a farce like many other professional sports."
Sorry I couldn't type up the whole letter, it's freaking long and I couldn't find a link.
sanjuro said:Thanks for posting that. I found a quick history page TdF 1930 where it mentioned races of 5000 kilometers. Compare this to this year's TdF of 3639 km.
Yeah it will be interesting to see what happens, if the road sie is any indication, after a few months no one will care anymore.Heath Sherratt said:Dopers SUCK! All the worldly succes cannot subdue their demons...they will have to live with the guilt whether they are caught or not. I remember when Philipe got caught their was a lot of outspoken, outraged professionals. I am sure he will not be completely comfortable back on the circuit.
Bwar. I'm down. Doubt he'll show...MtnbikeMike said:If Filip goes to Sea Otter this year, I propose everyone wears a "Dopers Suck" t-shirt at the short track.
I just have one thing to say.....I have a friend who placed 9th at this years national champs for the single speed class and I believe he was 13th (it was top 15 and there about) in the XC class. He is pro and works his butt off and I know he doesn't dope. I know that being at the top for our nation is a bit different from a world cup, but he is still good. I'm a bit split on the doping "theory" that most people do it. Him and I have talked about it some and he basically thinks that if someone does its becuase they are already losing, ie Chris Shepard (who is a locally boy to where I live). Thats for mountain biking thought, not road.Zutroy said:I'm the first person to say I think all the roadies are taking something, and probably most of the top XC guys, but to think he's dumb enough to take someone elses blood i don't think. The test is BS, the science behind it is on the voodoo side and the fact that they actually beleive that the test has no false positives so they've never calculated the rate, would get you laughed out of the real science world.
Let filip race, no body seems to car when an NFL or MLB player gets busted...so why would olympic sports be different.
Ever make a mistake in life? or your profesional life? I have waaaaaaaaaay more respect for those who nut up and admit it than for those who dodge it. I prayed that Heras would come up negative on the second test, but my old man was right and he tested positive. He has been dodging it like Tyler and I think someone like Millar or Filip who admits it and comes back will be a valuable asset to cycling.MtnbikeMike said:If Filip goes to Sea Otter this year, I propose everyone wears a "Dopers Suck" t-shirt at the short track.
I agree, let them redeem themselves. They have one chance to do it, in my opinion.luelling said:Ever make a mistake in life? or your profesional life? I have waaaaaaaaaay more respect for those who nut up and admit it than for those who dodge it. I prayed that Heras would come up negative on the second test, but my old man was right and he tested positive. He has been dodging it like Tyler and I think someone like Millar or Filip who admits it and comes back will be a valuable asset to cycling.
I loved watching Jerome Cheotti (sp?) race and it really sucked when he was found guilty of doping along a with a bunch of the Festina team in 1998. Ultimately it is an afflication that our sport has to deal with, but public flogging of athletes who haven't even proven guilty (by Dick "the idiot" Pound) does not help mountain biking or road cycling.
So hate the dopers, but most of the people chasing them are worse than they are.
This isn't like a momentary lapse of judgement. Meirhaeghe made the decision to dope, got on a training program designed around doping, as well as doing whatever was needed to pass the drug tests. Who knows how long he was on the juice, possibly his whole professional career.luelling said:Ever make a mistake in life? or your profesional life? I have waaaaaaaaaay more respect for those who nut up and admit it than for those who dodge it. I prayed that Heras would come up negative on the second test, but my old man was right and he tested positive. He has been dodging it like Tyler and I think someone like Millar or Filip who admits it and comes back will be a valuable asset to cycling.
I loved watching Jerome Cheotti (sp?) race and it really sucked when he was found guilty of doping along a with a bunch of the Festina team in 1998. Ultimately it is an afflication that our sport has to deal with, but public flogging of athletes who haven't even proven guilty (by Dick "the idiot" Pound) does not help mountain biking or road cycling.
So hate the dopers, but most of the people chasing them are worse than they are.
luelling said:Ever make a mistake in life? or your profesional life? I have waaaaaaaaaay more respect for those who nut up and admit it than for those who dodge it. I prayed that Heras would come up negative on the second test, but my old man was right and he tested positive. He has been dodging it like Tyler and I think someone like Millar or Filip who admits it and comes back will be a valuable asset to cycling.
I loved watching Jerome Cheotti (sp?) race and it really sucked when he was found guilty of doping along a with a bunch of the Festina team in 1998. Ultimately it is an afflication that our sport has to deal with, but public flogging of athletes who haven't even proven guilty (by Dick "the idiot" Pound) does not help mountain biking or road cycling.
So hate the dopers, but most of the people chasing them are worse than they are.
Velonews said:<snip> we're not certain that Millar deserves any medals for honesty. From the rarified heights of an 800,000-euro salary, Millar publicly called accuser Philippe Gaumont a "nutter" and "lunatic," and repeatedly denied the use of performance-enhancing EPO until the French cops found empty vials of Eprex in his house and put him in the hard chair under the bright lights. <snip>
Riders dope, not because of some obligation to their high-paid sponsors, but because their talent does not meet their egos.Muuqi said:In my opinion, it's the sponsors and the business aspect that creates the neccessity to dope. I actually feel bad for riders who are caught doping, when so many other people feel hatred and anger. The decision to dope is not made because a rider has the urge to "cheat", and the decision does not make a rider vile or evil, it is a decision that is made from the huge weight on a riders' shoulders to get results for their sponsors. The racers are not corrupt or "deceitful" they are simply pawns in a sport that is saturated with huge corporations. I wish there were more huge, title sponsors within the cycling industry for racers and teams, sponsors who actually are a part of and a fan of the cycling community, but instead we have multi billion dollar conglomerate companies who only see cycling as a way to advertise their product. So of course when a racer does not produce the results that get the sponsor good publicity then they either need to succumb to the pressure from director-sportiffs or team managers to dope, or they lose their job.
It is romantic to think every doper is a Marco Pantani character, an extremely talented rider who held onto to greatness by any means necessary.Muuqi said:Most riders obviously do not want to lose their beloved profession so they make the decision to dope, and then when/if they are caught doing it, the same sport and fans that created them and that they love turn on them and rip them to pieces, calling them "snivelling, self centered liars" or saying that "the cheaters deserve to be taken out and shot." I do not applaud the decision to dope and I wish that the sport we all love so much was clean, but the truth is it will take a HUGE change to bring that around, and attacking riders the second they don't have a negative test, or sh!t talking them when they try to come back is just going to destroy biking from the inside out.