First Ride on Hardtail

indieboy · Jun 2, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
I took my new hardtail out for the first time tonight and did about 7 miles a 1/3 road 1/3 trail and 1/3 fire road near my house. I was pleased and surprised at the high speed stability, I was expecting a somewhat harsh ride but didnt get it. Longer trial rides might be a different story.

I couldnt really hammer on the climbs because I still do not have the long seat post and I was running moss pedals. I didnt notice any particular difference but I might when I decide to really hammer.

On a slight rolling downhill bit (not technical) I clipped along at 19 MPH and could have gone faster except my feet became unstable on the pedals clipless are mandatory on a hardtail. All my previous 'true' mountain bikes have been full suspension and I never had any trouble pedaling fast on those hmmm?

The wheel base on this bike is about 2 shorter than my last ride Im liking it so far.

I get the right sized seat post and stem on Wednesday and hope to get in a decent 100% single track run in.

ALSO: Avid 185s are stupid heavy on an XC bike - but DAMN!!! They gots the power!

glad you are liking the new bike!!!

LostBoyScout · Jun 2, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
could have gone faster except my feet became unstable on the pedals clipless are mandatory on a hardtail.

Ahem... you just need to bend your knees. :monkey:

Other than I dissagree on the clipless deal (I've raced DH on a hardtail with flats and no probs.. just gotta be real loose), good stuff!! Hardtails are good fun. The FS is nice for long rides but otherwise, hardtail all the way!

indieboy · Jun 2, 2003

Originally posted by LostBoyScout
Ahem... you just need to bend your knees.

Other than I dissagree on the clipless deal (I've raced DH on a hardtail with flats and no probs.. just gotta be real loose), good stuff!! Hardtails are good fun. The FS is nice for long rides but otherwise, hardtail all the way!

xc you need em though, can't climb for SHIET on flats.......

Skookum · Jun 2, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
xc you need em though, can't climb for SHIET on flats.......

Not true...... I used to think that as well, it's just a matter of knowing HOW to pedal flats.
My friend busted his knee up and had to switch to flats and still outpedals me up the hills (not that's much of a feat). Really without going into great detail, i will say i truly believe that there is something to learn and positive habits (and negative habits) to take from both riding a bike in platforms and clipless.

LostBoyScout · Jun 2, 2003

Clipless allow you to pull up which uses different muscles on your body so you can spread the workload over a broader range of muscles. Your respitory system will never see the difference. As for 'spinning circles', both work exactly the same well, provided the person knows how to pedal well. So yes there are some performance gains though I think many make it out to be more of a gain then it is.

You LOSE ability to bunnyhop and maneuvre the bike, and I just find flats way more fun so that's why I use em

indieboy · Jun 2, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
Not true...... I used to think that as well, it's just a matter of knowing HOW to pedal flats.
My friend busted his knee up and had to switch to flats and still outpedals me up the hills (not that's much of a feat). Really without going into great detail, i will say i truly believe that there is something to learn and positive habits (and negative habits) to take from both riding a bike in platforms and clipless.

there are! however for xc riding/racing you need the ability to pull up on the pedals like LBS mentioned w/ a great deal of force in some situations. and w/ out clipless this can not be done.

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
there are! however for xc riding/racing you need the ability to pull up on the pedals like LBS mentioned w/ a great deal of force in some situations. and w/ out clipless this can not be done.

This can be done just hang out with LostBoyScout and i'm sure he will prove it to you..................
me i cant bunny hop for crap either way......

indieboy · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
This can be done just hang out with LostBoyScout and i'm sure he will prove it to you..................
me i cant bunny hop for crap either way......

pulling up as in pulling up w/ your foot....if you aren't riding clipless pedals there's nothing to hold your foot to the pedal when you try to pull up. ask SM or any one else that rides on the road or rides xc alot and ask them how much power they are able to generate on their upstroke from clipless pedals.....

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
pulling up as in pulling up w/ your foot....if you aren't riding clipless pedals there's nothing to hold your foot to the pedal when you try to pull up. ask SM or any one else that rides on the road or rides xc alot and ask them how much power they are able to generate on their upstroke from clipless pedals.....

Case in point, Rider:Oly.... Approach slow, sure he's using his suspension for some of the spring here but also this is a 40 plus pound bike, i've seen tons of people get the same lift on hardtails that wiegh 30 plus. Note the feet firmly and surely placed upon the platforms.... The difference here is all body english, not "cheating" and using lift exclusively the legs. One of the bad points of clipless it takes you away from fundamentals of technical bikey ability.......

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

I ride clipless and flats and i know you cannot rely on your upstroke, but c'mon who really does exclusively for any extended period of time. I do on a long ardous climb just to distribute the work a little bit and give some muscles a break. But ultimately the ability to "spin" can be accomplished with both.

Babar · Jun 3, 2003

Pulling up with clippy pedal doesnt that hurt your knee and thigh... I think its useless to pull up on clippy since it doesnt help; just hurts more plus if youre spinning efficiently there's no reason to pull up.

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
I am not likely to do North Shore stylie stunts or take huge gaps on my XC hardtail - it's for going up trails as fast as possible and for this I need clipless. You might be able to climb well on fire roads on flats (steady cadence) but on the trail (variable cadence) the clipless have a significant advantage in power transfer. This is not due to the pedals alone but also has a lot to do with rigid soled shoes.

Riding at speed on a road bike without clipless is just plain silly.

I agree but i never once brought up road biking, you guys did.

And i never talked about taking huge gaps, that usually takes speed, balance, and insanity (not the ability to bunny hop). I was using the picture to demonstrate an ability to pull a heavy bike up with the body, not by tugging on it by being attached to clips.

I still disagree and maintain that with flats clipless do not have signifigant advantage. Your argument is assuming that one who runs flats will have improper equipment (rigid soles shoes). I've got one word "Vans". I actually use rock climbing shoes, anything with a somewhat gummy sole to help attach to the pedal.

Certainly i understand why people would use clipless pedals in racing. The one or maybe second slip would cause a second or more time loss and break concentration(which is why i don't understand why ALL DH racer's don't use them...). But on any xc trail that i know of around here i'll take the Pepsi challenge on flats or clipless and come about even.

It takes practice i'm still learning myself. You have to earn the ability to learn how to pedal as efficiently on flats... But it's the same with clipless as well if you are not used to running those....

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Babar
Pulling up with clippy pedal doesnt that hurt your knee and thigh... I think its useless to pull up on clippy since it doesnt help; just hurts more plus if youre spinning efficiently there's no reason to pull up.

It should'nt hurt........

Unless your seat is too high and your buddy's luggage is hangin low!

Babar · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
It should'nt hurt........

Unless your seat is too high and your buddy's luggage is hangin low!

lol

Seriously i think it really depends on what kinda riding youre doing.

indieboy · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
Case in point, Rider:Oly.... Approach slow, sure he's using his suspension for some of the spring here but also this is a 40 plus pound bike, i've seen tons of people get the same lift on hardtails that wiegh 30 plus. Note the feet firmly and surely placed upon the platforms.... The difference here is all body english, not "cheating" and using lift exclusively the legs. One of the bad points of clipless it takes you away from fundamentals of technical bikey ability.......

well since we are bringing up cases that were brought up. the original statement that all of us were talking to SM about was climbing w/ clipless, not being able to really ride technical stuff and jumping w/ flats. i know w/ flats you have to use a lot of body english in order to get through stuff, but that's not really something you need a whole lot for xc riding/racing. you more or less need to be able at any instant to be able to stand up and pretty much pull w/ everything you've got.

Babar · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
When your spin is uneven and slow the ability to pull up with your legs does come in handy and can make the difference (however slight) between pedaling over roots and rocks or stalling and having to put a foot down.

I rode flats for one summer of riding when I thought I might try to improve my DH skills (or acquire them in the first place) even in gravity assist situations I felt more comfortable pedaling up while clipped in.

You for got the most important part, not posting pic of your bike built !

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
well since we are bringing up cases that were brought up. the original statement that all of us were talking to SM about was climbing w/ clipless, not being able to really ride technical stuff and jumping w/ flats. i know w/ flats you have to use a lot of body english in order to get through stuff, but that's not really something you need a whole lot for xc riding/racing. you more or less need to be able at any instant to be able to stand up and pretty much pull w/ everything you've got.

When you ride XC around here you encounter technical stuff. Mountain trails around here are not groomed like race courses, thank goodness. I have to use alot of body english in order to get through stuff whether clipped in or running flats on XC trails almost moreso than DH or Freeride stuff, so i again disagree. Standing and pulling on flats is something i'm still trying to learn to be honest with you, but i know it can be done. There are alot of Dirt Jumper's here that have it down. Look i understand that your using that weak muscle in your thigh to pull up while clipped in but i really don't believe that muscle and motion gives you much of an edge at all. A mass majority of power is generated from pedaling down, and in pulling using your arms for leverage. Besides i'm not going to let you move this argument into the realm of road riding, for fear of losing the debate from lack of qualifications.

indieboy · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
When you ride XC around here you encounter technical stuff. Mountain trails around here are not groomed like race courses, thank goodness. I have to use alot of body english in order to get through stuff whether clipped in or running flats on XC trails almost moreso than DH or Freeride stuff, so i again disagree. Standing and pulling on flats is something i'm still trying to learn to be honest with you, but i know it can be done. There are alot of Dirt Jumper's here that have it down. Look i understand that your using that weak muscle in your thigh to pull up while clipped in but i really don't believe that muscle and motion gives you much of an edge at all. A mass majority of power is generated from pedaling down, and in pulling using your arms for leverage. Besides i'm not going to let you move this argument into the realm of road riding, for fear of losing the debate from lack of qualifications.

i've ridden some pretty technical stuff on both race courses and just regular trails and flats are cool if that's what you want to ride but in all honestly you get a better power transfer out of clipless and for the most part can still give the bike some body english.

indieboy · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Sorry Indieboy - you cannot argue with Skookum because he is really smart and stuff. That's why I've turned a sub 22LB XC racer into a 27LB hardtail porker with beefy rims.

poor you

:devil:

Skookum · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
i've ridden some pretty technical stuff on both race courses and just regular trails and flats are cool if that's what you want to ride but in all honestly you get a better power transfer out of clipless and for the most part can still give the bike some body english.

I hear what your saying, i really do, but i don't think you really understand what i'm saying.
I didnt understand til i rode around in flats and realized how retarded my pedaling had become and how sloppy my technical ability had become. I had become dependant on clipless. I know when i get back into clipless on my trail bike it helps not only the technical aspect (which i think is shrouding my main point) but my pedal efficiency(main point of topic). It's hard to describe but setting up an approach for an short burst climb or getting up and over an obstacle using proper technique i think benefits my riding progression, making for less crashes and laughs but giving me the ability to keep up with all you racer's......
Ok i'm done, thanks indieboy yer fun to argue with.

Babar · Jun 3, 2003

Boy i still can't imagine riding XC with flatty... Slipping and cutting yer legs... which i did alot when used to ride trials, but on XC... no way mista.

freightGOD · Jun 3, 2003

You LOSE ability to bunnyhop and maneuvre the bike, and I just find flats way more fun so that's why I use em

[/B][/QUOTE]

Not true. I can bunny hop pretty dang high on flats, it's all in the skills my friend.

indieboy · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by Skookum
I hear what your saying, i really do, but i don't think you really understand what i'm saying.
I didnt understand til i rode around in flats and realized how retarded my pedaling had become and how sloppy my technical ability had become. I had become dependant on clipless. I know when i get back into clipless on my trail bike it helps not only the technical aspect (which i think is shrouding my main point) but my pedal efficiency(main point of topic). It's hard to describe but setting up an approach for an short burst climb or getting up and over an obstacle using proper technique i think benefits my riding progression, making for less crashes and laughs but giving me the ability to keep up with all you racer's......
Ok i'm done, thanks indieboy yer fun to argue with.

no i saw what you were saying but that didn't have to do w/ the point i was trying to make

Babar · Jun 4, 2003

Originally posted by freightGOD
You LOSE ability to bunnyhop and maneuvre the bike, and I just find flats way more fun so that's why I use em

Not true. I can bunny hop pretty dang high on flats, it's all in the skills my friend. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep i can bunny hop or J-hop so much higher on flats but i can't on clippy at most about a foot high with clippy.

reflux · Jun 6, 2003

bunnyhop on flats=good
bunnyhop on clips=not so good

i am not that great at bunnyhopping, but i've had my moments. from what i do know, you learn to bunnyhop [correctly] with flat pedals; none of this pulling up with your feet sh*t.

ride flats and learn that you can't just bomb through a section and expect your feet to stay on the pedals. i've tried flats and went back to my clips for this reason: i am not smooth enough

ac

BurlyShirley · Jun 6, 2003

clipless pedals, although very efficient, are a crutch for those weak in skill. with proper technique, flats can perfrom just as efficiently as clipless, yet offer the mobility and versatility that clipless cannot rival.
perhaps for riding groomed race courses they offer an advantage, but for most real trails, i think flats are the way to go. Although, i suppose if one looks at the sport in such a way that racing on groomed, boring XC race courses is where its at, there'd be no argument, but in riding for joy....clipless blows.

I used to ride clipless exclusively, like alot of other monkies, but soon realized my skills were fading as i went to ride urban and tried to bunny hop. Clipless sucks when you hafta hike-a-bike. They suck when you need to dab. They cheat bunny hops. Your bike is useless unless you're wearing some goofy shoes. Its just not worth it to me.

indieboy · Jun 6, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
clipless pedals, although very efficient, are a crutch for those weak in skill. with proper technique, flats can perfrom just as efficiently as clipless, yet offer the mobility and versatility that clipless cannot rival.
perhaps for riding groomed race courses they offer an advantage, but for most real trails, i think flats are the way to go. Although, i suppose if one looks at the sport in such a way that racing on groomed, boring XC race courses is where its at, there'd be no argument, but in riding for joy....clipless blows.

I used to ride clipless exclusively, like alot of other monkies, but soon realized my skills were fading as i went to ride urban and tried to bunny hop. Clipless sucks when you hafta hike-a-bike. They suck when you need to dab. They cheat bunny hops. Your bike is useless unless you're wearing some goofy shoes. Its just not worth it to me.

groomed xc trails lol quit reading about xc trails from losers who don't ride xc.......

indieboy · Jun 7, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Around here the DH trials and XC trails are all the same... BS, normally a fountain of wisdom, is talking out his ass on this one.

If you need to 'dab'... nuf said.

the only trail i ever really remember being groomed was the olympic course at conyers for the 98 UCI event. they hadn't done any trail maintance on that place in ages before that race and about a week and a half before hand went in there and pampered it. now granted there are some sections in that course that are just rough no matter what but all the hard pack sections and a bunch of other stuff they went in and took care of all the water errossion and what not. that course is just brutal no matter what they do to that place it kills you. more of a power course that drains you then anything.

Babar · Jun 7, 2003

Originally posted by indieboy
groomed xc trails lol quit reading about xc trails from losers who don't ride xc.......

Ditto ...

I don't understand people who say they ride XC and rides a some burly ass bike on some big flat fireroad...

Me-
XC: Clippy
Trail Rides: Clippy
Road: Clippy
Trials & Urban: Flat (I have friend who rides trials on clippy and its quiet amazing)
BMX: Flat
DH and FR (which i rarely do): Flat

First Ride on Hardtail

Al Bundy

Want fries with that?

Monkey

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

Al Bundy

bikey's is cool

Monkey

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

bikey's is cool

Want fries with that?

bikey's is cool

bikey's is cool

Al Bundy

Monkey

bikey's is cool

bikey's is cool

Monkey

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

Monkey

Al Bundy

bikey's is cool

Al Bundy

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

bikey's is cool

Monkey

Monkey

Want fries with that?

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

Want fries with that?

Al Bundy

Want fries with that?

Monkey