[demo 9]

I was at diablo last weekend, and overheard in a conversation that "floating brake arms are obsolete" Now i personally see nothing wrong with a floating brake, especially 1 that is pro squat. I guess his opinion was along the lines that frames should be designed so good that they dont need them, (split pivot for example) But it got me wondering, Is the typical floating brake arm outdated? Should bikes that dont have them get them? Does a kona with a floater brake better than a TR450? Discuss! Im curious because the first bike i ever had with a floater was my dh9, which i felt had pretty good braking, granted i didnt own it long, but i liked it. Should we hate on floaters?

 

[Bigdroptoflat]

I think DW solved the problem

 

[quickneonrt]

specialized solved the problem years ago with FSR when other companies were using 4 bar and single pivots.
DW is a multi linkage design, so is VPP, Maestro and FSR. These multi linkage designs were created to do a few things eliminate brake jack which is keeping the suspension active under breaking. Create better axle paths, better pedalability, better control and maintain speed through rough stuff.

Floaters were mainly used on single pivots to lessen or try to eliminate brake jack and keep suspension active under braking.
now with better single pivot designs the addition of linkage assisted sp, better pivot locations, better shock technology. The need for a floater has pretty much been eliminated.

 

[kidwoo]

specialized solved the problem years ago.

I just realized how young you are

 

[DirtyMike]

I think it really depends on the bike combined with the rider.

 

[quickneonrt]

I just realized how young you are

??????

 

[4130biker]

Indeeeed

 

[quickneonrt]

Indeeeed

anti-squat?????

 

[4130biker]

anti-squat?????

yes... I'm bored!

 

[Raingauge]

??????

It's called a Horst link for a reason. Look it up.
Horst Leitner began working on the problem of chain torque and its effect on suspension in the mid 1970s with motorcycles. In 1985 Leitner built a prototype mountain bike incorporating what became known later as the "Horst link". Leitner formed a mountain bike and research company, AMP research, that began building full-suspension mountain bikes. In 1990, AMP introduced the Horst link as a feature of a fully independent linkage rear suspension for mountain bikes. The AMP B-3 and B-4 XC full-suspension bikes featured active Horst link/Macpherson strut rear suspensions and optional disc brakes. A later model, the B-5, was equipped with both the Horst link and a four-bar active link suspension featuring up to 125*mm (5*inches) of travel on a bicycle weighing around 10.5*kg (23 pounds). For 10 years AMP Research manufactured their full-suspension bikes in small quantities in Laguna Beach, California, including the manufacture of their own cable-actuated-hydraulic disc brakes, hubs, shocks and front suspension forks.[2]

 

[worship_mud]

Jeeze picky bastards. Yes, I know about amp and Specialized stole the design and then patented it. Same way Dave Turner helped work on the suspension design. He also was pretty much screwed over and payed had to pay spec to use it.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3502702&postcount=15

 

[Vrock]

It's not obsolete and it will never be. There is still a ton of bikes that would work better with one.

 

[HardtailHack]

specialized solved the problem years ago with FSR when other companies were using 4 bar and single pivots.
DW is a multi linkage design, so is VPP, Maestro and FSR. These multi linkage designs were created to do a few things eliminate brake jack which is keeping the suspension active under breaking. Create better axle paths, better pedalability, better control and maintain speed through rough stuff.

Floaters were mainly used on single pivots to lessen or try to eliminate brake jack and keep suspension active under braking.
now with better single pivot designs the addition of linkage assisted sp, better pivot locations, better shock technology. The need for a floater has pretty much been eliminated.

How do you make a better single pivot design?

 

[epic]

How do you make a better single pivot design?

Drive the shock with a link and put a floater on it.

 

[FlyinPolack]

specialized solved the problem years ago with FSR when other companies were using 4 bar and single pivots.
DW is a multi linkage design, so is VPP, Maestro and FSR. These multi linkage designs were created to do a few things eliminate brake jack which is keeping the suspension active under breaking. Create better axle paths, better pedalability, better control and maintain speed through rough stuff.

Floaters were mainly used on single pivots to lessen or try to eliminate brake jack and keep suspension active under braking.
now with better single pivot designs the addition of linkage assisted sp, better pivot locations, better shock technology. The need for a floater has pretty much been eliminated.

Spot on.

I built a frame for a buddy a couple of years ago, & We put a floater on it. He ended up taking it off this year & He is just as fast without it.

I've always thought that they were a gimick personally. A properly set up DH bike being ridden correctly will never need it.

 

[no skid marks]

I've always thought that they were a gimick personally. A properly set up DH bike being ridden correctly will never need it.

I dissagree.
It all depends if the rider prefers the bike to squat or be active when braking.
Both have their bennefits.
Floater keeps rear suspension active(or semi active depending on set up), so it'll absorb rocks and break bumps better, and keep rear traction better(in most situations).
No floater(on a medium to high pivot bike), will make rear squat when braking, keeping geo more consistent as front will dive when braking.
A floater can be set up to dial in squat if desired.
Possibly the floater you mentioned wasn't set up right, and had little or no effect, compared to not having it at all.

 

[foesrider]

Possibly the floater you mentioned wasn't set up right, and had little or no effect, compared to not having it at all.

this is correct...it didn't work because it was not parallel with the cainstay...

took this from the santa cruz website (floater for the bullit) "With the sliding seat tube clamp, you can tune how you want the bike to behave under braking. Lower positioning will provide less anti-squat than moving it higher on the tube"

so.. seeing that big bike companies still use them .. foes,santacruz,ect..i'd say they are not obsolete

 

[dump]

I was at diablo last weekend, and overheard in a conversation that "floating brake arms are obsolete" Now i personally see nothing wrong with a floating brake, especially 1 that is pro squat. I guess his opinion was along the lines that frames should be designed so good that they dont need them, (split pivot for example) But it got me wondering, Is the typical floating brake arm outdated? Should bikes that dont have them get them? Does a kona with a floater brake better than a TR450? Discuss! Im curious because the first bike i ever had with a floater was my dh9, which i felt had pretty good braking, granted i didnt own it long, but i liked it. Should we hate on floaters?

You sig says it's still for sale.

 

[demo 9]

^ hurts the hell out of my hands, no choice

 

[quickneonrt]

How do you make a better single pivot design?

it is position of the pivot like Morewood and or the addition of linkages like the Evil Revolt, Transition TR450

 

[IH8Rice]

it is position of the pivot like Morewood and or the addition of linkages like the Evil Revolt

a floating brake would make the Revolt that much more better.er

 

[epic]

How is a linkage between the swingarm and the shock going to change the behavior under braking?

 

[IH8Rice]

How is a linkage between the swingarm and the shock going to change the behavior under braking?

with more acronyms

 

[ScarredOne]

with more acronyms

LOL! truth!

 

[Kanye West]

If you can't figure out how to brake properly on steep or choppy stuff with a single pivot w/o a floater, try harder. No need to have a bunch of extra noisy crap hanging off the back of the bike - it won't make you faster.

 

[jwick]

If you can't figure out how to brake properly on steep or choppy stuff with a single pivot w/o a floater, try harder. No need to have a bunch of extra noisy crap hanging off the back of the bike - it won't make you faster.

What he said. I took the floater off my bike and its just that much more incentive not to touch the brakes.

 

[no skid marks]

Floater makes the bike more forgiving. Allows worse line choice. Won't hang up as much on stuff.
No floater has more accuracy of rear wheel feel and placement.

 

[epic]

Floater makes the bike more forgiving. Allows worse line choice. Won't hang up as much on stuff.
No floater has more accuracy of rear wheel feel and placement.

How the?

 

[no skid marks]

How the?

Floater makes the suspension active, so the bike won't hang up on bumps but will absorb them, so you can get away with a bumpier line choice.
No floater gives you more feel of the rear tyre whith the brake on, and you can also control it more with the rear brake, and also control the squating/stiffening of the suspension.

 

[Sandwich]

What he said. I took the floater off my bike and its just that much more incentive not to touch the brakes.

:facepalm:

the idea with a floater is that instead of having to brake 30 ft out, you can brake 15ft out, knowing that the traction will be there to slow you down. You can't turn if you don't slow down to the point your tires still have traction. If you can't slow down....

A floating brake is an asset just like patented anti squat curves. Just ask the designer of the splABPivot. It won't make you GO faster, but it will allow you to control your stopping ability better.

I think less manufacturers use them because A) more than half couldn't figure out how to do it right, and B) it adds weight and maintenance, and C) most patented suspension designs integrate braking into their marketing scheme somehow. SO, if you have a design, slap a patent on it and say it's xyz light and nobody will bat an eyelash.

 

[jwick]

:facepalm:

the idea with a floater is that instead of having to brake 30 ft out, you can brake 15ft out, knowing that the traction will be there to slow you down. You can't turn if you don't slow down to the point your tires still have traction. If you can't slow down....

A floating brake is an asset just like patented anti squat curves. Just ask the designer of the splABPivot. It won't make you GO faster, but it will allow you to control your stopping ability better.

I think less manufacturers use them because A) more than half couldn't figure out how to do it right, and B) it adds weight and maintenance, and C) most patented suspension designs integrate braking into their marketing scheme somehow. SO, if you have a design, slap a patent on it and say it's xyz light and nobody will bat an eyelash.

facepalm? really? I took the floater off my transition blindside because it had only a small effect, IMO, on the overall braking performance. It was definitely an asset when things were incredibly steep and every little bit of traction keeps you from killing yourself. The low rearward pivot position of the BS didn't suffer too greatly from the brakes stiffening the suspension. Granted it doesn't isolate the braking forces as well as some of the newer vp/four bar setups, but i definitely can feel the lack 14oz of linkage hanging off the back of my bike now. Certain designs such as a SC Bullet would, however, benefit greatly from a floater, imo.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

My friend's Balfa BB7 had a floater. It handled massive hucks to flat well back in the early 2000's. Therefore, floaters must be awesome.

 

[Kanye West]

the idea with a floater is that instead of having to brake 30 ft out, you can brake 15ft out, knowing that the traction will be there to slow you down. You can't turn if you don't slow down to the point your tires still have traction. If you can't slow down....

If you can find a way to cut my braking distance in half using EITHER wheel, much less the rear wheel, I'll pay for it and put it on my bike no questions asked. Good thing for my wallet that it doesn't exist.

 

[no skid marks]

My friend's Balfa BB7 had a floater. It handled massive hucks to flat well back in the early 2000's. Therefore, floaters must be awesome.

IMO a BB7 would still be faster than most current bikes, floater or not. Make some new side plates for the swingarm, to lower the BB, slacken her out a bit and shorten the stays, and she'd be quicker still.
I did blow up a dodgey brake mount on a BB7 without floater due to the extra load on it off a drop.

 

[DirtyMike]

HA, I love all these arguements for a floater........

I will just repeat what I said before.... It completly depends on the rider and bike.

So I will go into that more...... Higher pivot will benefit more from a floater... IE a Bullit

Lower pivot not so much, which is why I do not have it on my blindside....

Years ago, I had one mounted to a bullit... huge difference from with to without. Now with the Blindside, I went on, and came back off.... with as lite as I am on the rear brakes... there was no difference on the Blindside.

IMHO... a floating brake setup doesnt make you go faster, it doesnt make you stop sooner........ its a way for "some" bikes to behave differently under braking.

 

[epic]

HA, I love all these arguements for a floater........

I will just repeat what I said before.... It completly depends on the rider and bike.

So I will go into that more...... Higher pivot will benefit more from a floater... IE a Bullit

Lower pivot not so much, which is why I do not have it on my blindside....

My old Rotec was greatly improved with the addition of the floater. Not a very high pivot on that bike.

 

[DirtyMike]

Like stated.... its totally dependant on the bike and rider combination

 

[nelsonjm]

I had one on my bb7 earlier this season and took it off. I didn't like the noise, how it made the bike rattle, that I had to use a 6" rotor, or the fact my attempt to use it with an 8" rotor via washers ended in failure.

The floating brake is dead to me.

 

[dante]

This one time, I borrowed a friend's 222 (223?). I crashed and blew out the front brake, and so had to make it down the rest of the mtn (Deceit? BMW?) using just the rear brake. I totally wished that it had a floating brake on it that day.

 

[Hesh To Steel]

My old Rotec was greatly improved with the addition of the floater. Not a very high pivot on that bike.

I read somewhere that bikes with a Lawwill rear end greatly benefited from a floating rear brake. I don't remember exactly WHY this is, but if I remember correctly it was described as being a "catapult" without one. I'm sure someone else with more knowledge on the matter can clarify.