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Fox 40 float or coil

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
that's all? I've been clicking this thread every 10 minutes hoping for some fireworks and so far only other rubberneckers like me.
I will not be challenging Hack on anything suspension related. We've disagreed on plenty stuff but he clearly knows his sh*t in this department. I also happen to agree with him that regardless of how well internally tuned an MTB suspension unit is external adjustments with knobs are a near requisite for good sales. How Cane Creek has gotten away without tool free adjustment is beyond me.
 
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Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Also lookin like mid September for the 40 float from fox, unless you have a shop with them already in stock. But if you're not in a hurry then it doesn't matter
When I missed the June shipment I was told I'd have my 40 Float August 15. I sent an email yesterday asking for an update but no response. here's hoping it shows up at the shop tomorrow.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
When I missed the June shipment I was told I'd have my 40 Float August 15. I sent an email yesterday asking for an update but no response. here's hoping it shows up at the shop tomorrow.
Mine will be here Thurs. I even have the tracking number. Go-Ride has a few.
 

FirstAscent

Chimp
Apr 23, 2013
51
0
Alaska
Kntr - lucky! did you order online or from Fox/lbs?

Lelandjt - I was told the same about the August 15th date but I heard yesterday they are still waiting on parts so haven't been able to complete the new batch and will now be 1st to 2nd week of September. I ordered mine in beginning of July and it's the only thing left to finish my build :(
 

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
I agree on some points Hacktastic made and disagree on some:

Super limited range for the damping (pogo stick rebound and only a mildly effective LSC).
Yes, the range is quite limited and offset to quite low levels of damping, I need to have the LSR one to two clicks from fully closed to have pretty fast but not pogo-stick fast rebound. Also my LSC is settings are 2 to 6 clicks out from fully closed (FYI there are 24 clicks of range in total if I can remember right). I am using Motul Factory Line 5W oil which should be almost identical in viscosity compared to the Golden Spectro which Avy is recommending.
Also, their bottoming system relies on some VERY tight concentricity from the stanchion ID to the footnut hole in the cast lowers, which is a poor assumption to make. The result was some bad grinding and interference of the bottom out system, which couldn't be set correctly (even tightening everything up while bottomed out).
Yeah, my bottom out cone and the sleeve are quite worn on one side because the Boxxer casting tolerances are not good enough for the bottom out system. I feel the bottom out cone doesn't work at all because the gap between the cone and the sleeve is too large on the other side (because the gap is none in the worn side).

Additionally, I guarantee their bottoming sleeve that covers the base valve ports is choking flow at super high speeds.
Wouldn't be so sure, isn't the flow path between the cartridge and the sleeve much larger than the holes in the piston? I've never opened the cartridge, so I haven't seen the piston myself, but I would assume the holes can't be that big.
And no knobs? C'mon...they don't even have to be pretty, but whipping out the perfectly sized flathead to get in the compression adjuster cavity is a pain.
Yeah, this is a major pain in the ass sometimes, when I would like to adjust the fork between the runs (or even mid-run) and I'm far away from the tools. I don't like carrying rather sharp and pointy objects like screwdrivers in my pockets while riding.

I've been down the Avalanche road a few times now with various products, and never thought they were particularly well done. Usually a LOT of functional shortcomings, with the added delight of having to deal with Mr. "Masters Degree and 30 years experience of doing **** wrong" Seekins. Perhaps if he ever listened to feedback and suggestions his products wouldn't be 10 years behind.

Nice machining, but really poor engineering kills it.
Overall, I'm still quite satisfied with the cartridge, at least it seems to be really well made, should be pretty maintenance free, and the damping is a true improvement over the stock Boxxer RC damping.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
I agree on some points Hacktastic made and disagree on some:

Wouldn't be so sure, isn't the flow path between the cartridge and the sleeve much larger than the holes in the piston? I've never opened the cartridge, so I haven't seen the piston myself, but I would assume the holes can't be that big.

Overall, I'm still quite satisfied with the cartridge, at least it seems to be really well made, should be pretty maintenance free, and the damping is a true improvement over the stock Boxxer RC damping.
The flow path between those cylinders is tiny - small enough you've gotta measure it with a feeler gauge. I'd guess 0.020-0.030" somewhere. Considering the flow is going to have a boundary layer against both walls of that, the effective passage gets even smaller. It's probably only 10-20cc's or so passing that area (volume of the rod), but still seems really strange.

I'd agree, it's probably an improvement over certain damping systems, especially if there's a lot of damper rod drag like the Boxxers tend to have. If you're replacing a Fox cartridge that (at least) has a reasonable rebound range, I'd consider it a step back just for that reason.

I ended up almost fully closed on R and C on mine as well when I had it too. Couldn't justify spending however much more on tools just to work on the thing and get it to work sorta normal after already dropping $400 on it.
 

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
Yeah, this is a major pain in the ass sometimes, when I would like to adjust the fork between the runs (or even mid-run) and I'm far away from the tools. I don't like carrying rather sharp and pointy objects like screwdrivers in my pockets while riding.
its called a camelback and a multi-tool. git sum.
If you're replacing a Fox cartridge that (at least) has a reasonable rebound range, I'd consider it a step back just for that reason.
good to know.. i planned on buying an avy cart when it came time to service the fit damper.. now having second thoughs.. although id be able to make a much better decision if i could actually finish my bike and ride it..
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,005
24,551
media blackout
The flow path between those cylinders is tiny - small enough you've gotta measure it with a feeler gauge. I'd guess 0.020-0.030" somewhere. Considering the flow is going to have a boundary layer against both walls of that, the effective passage gets even smaller. It's probably only 10-20cc's or so passing that area (volume of the rod), but still seems really strange.

I'd agree, it's probably an improvement over certain damping systems, especially if there's a lot of damper rod drag like the Boxxers tend to have. If you're replacing a Fox cartridge that (at least) has a reasonable rebound range, I'd consider it a step back just for that reason.

I ended up almost fully closed on R and C on mine as well when I had it too. Couldn't justify spending however much more on tools just to work on the thing and get it to work sorta normal after already dropping $400 on it.
regarding the rebound - i think part of it depends on how well you communicate your riding style / weight to craig. for my 40, the compression was a lot better, but i'd say the rebound was no better than the fox cart i took out, but it was no worse either. i added 1 click of rebound out of the box. fwiw the avy cart was replacing one of the pre-fit carts ('08 fork)
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,080
5,999
borcester rhymes
what about slipping one under your fork bumper? i'm sure you can find a small "L" screwdriver to fit. Or take one of those cheapy plastic eyeglass ones, break off the plastic handle, then bend it with a pair of vice grips.
 

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
what about slipping one under your fork bumper? i'm sure you can find a small "L" screwdriver to fit. Or take one of those cheapy plastic eyeglass ones, break off the plastic handle, then bend it with a pair of vice grips.
That is actually a great piece of advice! Never thought of that, I've just been taping tools to my frame or seat sometimes.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
UPS showed up without my fork today and no word back from Fox on the order status. What sucks is I missed the June order because for some reason my employee purchase email didn't go through. If i don't get this fork very soon the buyer for my 888 is gonna back out so I'll have to skip it till next year. Besides, the resorts will close in a month.
 

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
do you have a favorite one that fits over your roost guard?
i dont wear a whole lot of protection when i ride (singletrack).. hell sometimes i dont even wear anything. when i finish my (big) bike, i dont plan on wearing a whole lot either.. probably just going to start out with the thin RF knee and elbow pads..

maybe that will change.. who knows. only time will tell. but all i can tell you right now is that i hate pads or any sort of protective gear with a passion. i always feel super restricted such.
more importantly, camelbaks cover up our fancy matching kits. that's a no-no.
i think the whole matchey matchey thing is lame and gaudy AF... ill probably buy a mellow jersey and rock skate pants.. they be supa stretchy!
 

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
I want to avoid wearing a backpack over a spine guard and Leatt when DH'ing. And most multitools don't have small enough flathead screwdriver to fit into the compression adjuster on the Avy.
glad you found another solution.. cause i didnt have anything else.. cept for a fanny pack!

holy crap tho, you must be riding at mach 4, or riding down some steep stuff with all that gear.
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,520
4,771
Australia
Bit of a sidenote, but I'm friggen sick of forks not coming with the manufacturer's own specced oil volumes. Both sets of out of the box 40s that I've dropped the lowers off had ~8mL of lubrication oil in them. I don't know why its done, but its pathetic.

(excuse the rant, I just left the garage to get a beer and got distracted by the internet. Back to fitting these shiny goodies)
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,520
4,771
Australia
I was thinking that, but realistically - oil isn't that expensive (at least not for the manufacturers). Plus, they're paying for some pretty flash packaging, spare springs and a bunch of other places they could save more money, more easily. If its money, then it really is pretty pathetic.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
50 - 60 mL
I got you beat on that side. The air volume adjust on my 40 Float well it was installed with RED LOCK tite on the bottom allen key. That was awesome having to use a vise to hold the air rod and the whole time turning I am thinking is this stripped?

The guy at Fox was like WHAT? Also he didn't seem to know the 40 was Air now....that sort of worried me a bit.
 
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gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
good to know.. i planned on buying an avy cart when it came time to service the fit damper.. now having second thoughs.. although id be able to make a much better decision if i could actually finish my bike and ride it..
Hack is being a bit dramatic. IF it came tuned properly it wouldn't be a problem. But I know both mine and hack's were underdamped, despite telling him VERY specifically that I wanted slow slow rebound and lots of compression damping. All in on both wasn't enough.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,001
9,665
AK
This is a little ridiculous. The new "best fork in the world ever" RS Pike Charger damper has the same type of low-speed compression range as my Avalanche cart (in an 888). This is because it's a usable compression range and no one would ever run no compression damping (if it could be selected) or a ton of compression damping to the point where you'd ride it like 30 feet and then decide that was a dumb idea and put it back to a normal/reasonable setting. Within that area, the avalanche stuff gives you a lot of control and ability to change the compression damping. Same with the pike, run it with "zero" and it still has some and doesn't just go crazy, run it with full and it doesn't lock out and damage itself, it simply rides firmer. Run it in the middle and it makes super-chunky stuff amazingly level. When I dropped 50-60lbs of body weight because I got skinny, the Avy cart was easy to go in and remove the shims/revalve it. Yes, you needed one CNCed tool, but the process wasn't hard and you're actually dealing with well made parts, pistons, metal stuff, etc.

On the other hand, they generally feel over-damped compared to what people are used to. Those old marzocchis with nearly zero low speed compression damping that ride like pogo sticks bouncing up and down feel a lot different, but when you go faster and faster on the avalanche stuff it just feels better and better, as the high speed circuit is easily activated by sharp hits. No problems with the bottoming cone, worked as advertised. My pike is close and reminds me a lot of the avalanche damper in terms of the compression characteristics, especially at high speed.

Losing weight did screw up one of my rear shocks bad, as I was able to revalve one of them, but just didn't have the funds to send the other one in during the same time period. There was nothing "wrong" with the shock, it was just way off for my body weight, and as such nearly unusable, even with a lighter spring. Not a big deal, as it was a radical change I went through and I would expect something custom like this to magnify these types of effects, as the performance is generally a good step above anything OEM that's more adaptable.

Yes, no knobs is a little annoying. I always found sharp-rocks to use to turn my avy adjusters, but knobs would be nice on something this expensive. A minor issue for me given the quality of the shock/cartridge.

The avy cartridges are great, with midvalves even better, the new closed ones look to be better yet. If I had gotten a fox 34/36 with my new bike instead of the pike, I'd be looking to get the avy cart as soon as possible. The crappy part with my new bike is that I'm so used to good shock damping and this CTD evo whatever thing is just crap comparatively. On the "trail" setting it doesn't have enough rebound for the compression and it doesn't transition easily to high speed damping, but then on the "descend" setting it just moves around too much, not great high speed damping, better than "T", but the chassi movement is pretty bad. Rebound has to be run way light to avoid packing, yet it's thrown off by changing "CTD" settings and it doesn't have the chassi-stability effect by having a good amount of low speed without affecting high...I'm considering Push over the winter to get it a little closer to what I want, since the bike won't take an avalanche shock. I'm honestly pretty disappointed with this fox rear shock. Yes, I realize it's an OEM shock, but they've had like 15 years to figure out damping and actually put decent circuits in there. CCDB figured out how to do it. Fox needs to stop worrying about the newest fad or lever crap and just put in decent high/low circuits.
 
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