[DirtEveryDay]

Anyone running this thing yet? I just got my 05 Yeti AS-X and just can't quite sem to dial it in. I feel like a 'tard as every review about it says it's like breathing it's so easy to set up.
I just can't seem to get the sag/psi right. It sags a LOT, even at like 150 PSI(recomended psi for DH is 80psi), and I've got the spring adjuster half way down the damn shock body. I tighten it up any more and I won't have but 3" of wheel travel and a squashed spring. OK, now, I can live with the bike sagging like 2-3 inches, but(and this might be a noob mistake) it bottoms out very easily, like when trying to bunny hop at slow speed, or simply hitting the brake and shoving the bike down.
Pro-pedal is all the way out, as is the bottom-resistance.
Rebound is just over half.
Spring is a 400lb unit and I weigh 170 lbs. Too soft of a spring?

 

[Curb Hucker]

sounds alot like you need a heavier spring, try a 500

 

[DirtEveryDay]

That's pretty much what I was wondering, since I have to crank the adjuster so far down to hold the silly bike up!
Are the Fox springs universal, or are they shock-specific?

 

[The Kadvang]

sounds alot like you need a heavier spring, try a 500

Yeah.

 

[Curb Hucker]

That's pretty much what I was wondering, since I have to crank the adjuster so far down to hold the silly bike up!
Are the Fox springs universal, or are they shock-specific?

youre going to have to get a DHX spring, just call fox, theyre pretty cheap

 

[Jm_]

Anyone running this thing yet? I just got my 05 Yeti AS-X and just can't quite sem to dial it in. I feel like a 'tard as every review about it says it's like breathing it's so easy to set up.
I just can't seem to get the sag/psi right. It sags a LOT, even at like 150 PSI

Spring is a 400lb unit and I weigh 170 lbs. Too soft of a spring?

Yes, too soft of a spring.

 

[Alloy]

Anyone running this thing yet? I just got my 05 Yeti AS-X and just can't quite sem to dial it in. I feel like a 'tard as every review about it says it's like breathing it's so easy to set up.
I just can't seem to get the sag/psi right. It sags a LOT, even at like 150 PSI(recomended psi for DH is 80psi), and I've got the spring adjuster half way down the damn shock body. I tighten it up any more and I won't have but 3" of wheel travel and a squashed spring. OK, now, I can live with the bike sagging like 2-3 inches, but(and this might be a noob mistake) it bottoms out very easily, like when trying to bunny hop at slow speed, or simply hitting the brake and shoving the bike down.
Pro-pedal is all the way out, as is the bottom-resistance.
Rebound is just over half.
Spring is a 400lb unit and I weigh 170 lbs. Too soft of a spring?

Try it with the bottom out adjuster turned in. If it still bottoms try taking the spring off and cycling your suspension to see if you can feel the compression damping. With 150psi and the bottom out adjuster all the way in you will be able to feel a pretty significant ramp up. If you don't send it back. Mine had the same problem at first and it was pretty discouraging.

If the shocks working right even with a soft spring you shouldn’t really feel a noticeable bottom out. I have mine set up with a 450lb spring on a 02 Turner DHR I also weight 170 and it only bottoms out if I do something really dumb. I'm not sure what kind of ratio your asx has but if its anything close to 3/1 a 400lb spring shouldn't be too far off.

 

[Discostu]

A 2005 asx has exactly a 3/1 ratio if i remember correctly, an 8.5 x 2.5 shock with 7.5 inches of travel.

 

[zedro]

Manitou Swinger springs work to. DONT TRY TO ADJUST SAG WITH THE PSI, the shock simply doent work that way.

to tune, setup in this order:

1-set spring rate according to proper sag
2-set air pressure according to small/medium bump compliance
3-set bottom out adjuster

 

[dhtahoe]

sounds alot like you need a heavier spring, try a 500

The DHX shocks that I have seen stock have been WAY undersprung. Get a a bigger spring.

 

[scottishmark]

might want to have a look at this to make sure of what spring you want to order (although i'd like to think that Fox would run through it with you first) http://www.mojo.co.uk/springs-calc.shtml

 

[DirtEveryDay]

AWESOME! You guys rock! Meet me in Whistler this June and beer's on me!

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

AWESOME! You guys rock! Meet me in Whistler this June and beer's on me!

What about early july?

 

[Kornphlake]

The AS-X linkage is kind of tricky to tune, it's very progressive during the first part of the stroke to nearly linear at the end. I'm not sure about the actual ratios but you can see that in the first part of the stroke the shock compresses very little as the short link starts to point downward, then the short link kind of stays in the same position and the shock compresses at what is closer to a 3:1 ratio. I've found that with my 5th element the trick is to run the air volume adjuster almost all the way in, so that the progressive part of the shock's stroke starts in right about where the linkage's progressiveness ends. I'm not sure how that will work with the DHX though, I'd say to start you probabally need a heavier spring and a more progressive setting on the shock.

 

[zedro]

I'm not sure how that will work with the DHX though, I'd say to start you probabally need a heavier spring and a more progressive setting on the shock.

from the description the overall setup wouldn't be that different; lower/mid-range pressures with the volume adjuster 2/3s to full-in.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

OK, it's pretty much decided that I do need a heavier spring, but that alone is not going to stop the bottom out, right? I have not had the chance to even run this thing at speed yet(don't want to damage the shock before I get it dialed in), so is it possible it will be fine at high speeds, versus me being able to fully compress the suspension at a standstill? Just like a fork, you can slowly compress it all the way, but it resists more at faster compression. Or is a rear shock different from a coil/oil fork's behavior?
If you haven't guessed, I'm a little new at this. I had a Transition Dirtbag for 6 months, but the Vanilla was absolutely perfcet on it, never needed to even look at it, so I never learned anything with it. I do know that if I lifted the back end up, the spring and the adjuster barely contacted, and on my new Yeti, I'm almost out of threads, it's so far down. Widh I knew what spring rate that was...

 

[Alloy]

In my experiments with the shock the driveway test were just as conclusive as any trail test.

Personally from what I went though with shock and what you've typed, I think your shock is bunk. I would send it back to Fox and have them rebuild it as well as exchange springs.

If it was working right you would be pleasently surprised at how it ramps up when you start jumping on it. Only if it was severly undersprung should you be able to bottom it out that easily.

 

[zedro]

In my experiments with the shock the driveway test were just as conclusive as any trail test.

i think you need to work on your experiments...

i suggest you start out at ~100psi with 1/3rd in the volume adjuster. Take a normal rock-ridden trail (no drops); here you'll get to see how compliant the suspension is while staying on the ground. If you feel the bike sucking-in using too much travel over the medium stuff, you need more pressure; if you feel you're riding over the bumps too much like the suspension isnt being used effectively, drop some pressure. Once thats established, you can move into the bottom out adjustments for the bigger stuff. Note that changing your bottom-out, you may need to re-adjust your pressure; this may be a reset or somewhere in the middle since both adjustments will affect each other somewhat.

 

[Alloy]

i think you need to work on your experiments...

Are you saying you had a DHX that bottomed out in your driveway and not on the trail?

Cause I didn't notice any velocity sensitive damping. As far as bottoming out went it was the same in my driveway as it was on the trail.

 

[zedro]

Are you saying you had a DHX that bottomed out in your driveway and not on the trail?

Cause I didn't notice any velocity sensitive damping. As far as bottoming out went it was the same in my driveway as it was on the trail.

the speed sensitive part is exactly the deal. The pressure adjustment tweeks the compliance over the small-medium stuff at speed, but the effect isnt noticible bouncing up and down in the parking (mainly because using your weight to bounce up and down always happens around the same speed). The effect may be more noticible to my bikes linkage design tho.

 

[Raffles]

How much do you weigh? (sorry if it's already been asked) The spring may not be an issue, I run a 400x3.25" spring on my 5.0 (on stab supreme). I found that it at first did tend to sagg a bit more than I liked but with a bit of playing round, I got it sorted. Also The DHX shoks can run up to 33% sag. How much air are you running in the boost valve? This may also be an issue. Have you played with the botteming resistance yet? Hope i have been I bit of help, and good luck with the shock, once you get it going mint, you'll be loving it!


Raffles

 

[DirtEveryDay]

OK, FINALLY got to take my dang bike for a ride! Granted, it was just a quicky urban run, but I got the results I was looking for. One knob. I cranked up the Pro-Pedal and it did exactly the trick. Yeti's recommended settings are to back it all the way out, as were the instructions of some other peeps I talked to, but seems like it worked. I was even able to let the spring out about 6 full turns! Finally, I lightened up the rebound dampening and it even bunnyhops! Yay! So it's getting closer, just gonna have to keep working with it.
One thing I noticed quickly...that AS-X really likes to move, doesn't it? Seems like it amplifies any slight input. Me likee!

 

[Jm_]

YOU NEED THE RIGHT SPRING RATE FOR THE DAMPING TO WORK CORRECTLY WITH THIS SHOCK!

 

[zedro]

One knob. I cranked up the Pro-Pedal and it did exactly the trick.

that doesnt actually affect your sag, its basically low speed compression.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

I know, but it was the bottoming out that was the problem. I still need a stiffer spring I think, but it doesn't bottom anymore. Like I said, I was actually able to back the adjuster off the spring about 6 full turns and it didn't change much.

 

[zedro]

I know, but it was the bottoming out that was the problem. I still need a stiffer spring I think, but it doesn't bottom anymore. Like I said, I was actually able to back the adjuster off the spring about 6 full turns and it didn't change much.

i wouldnt use the pro-pedal to reduce bottom-out, because you are just going to kill the suspensions compliance in the initial travel range; its not intended to reduce bottoming, just pedal-bob and low-speed stuff. Use the lower knob (volume adjust) for bottom-out control.

Also pre-loading the spring doesnt do much for bottoming either, that sets your ride-height.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Well, between everything not being where it was supposed to be, it was bottoming out. Right now, it sits like this: 1 turn out from all the way in, bottom out is all the way out, PSI is at 100, rebound at half, no bottoming anymore. Small frame,400 pound spring, and I weigh 170. The pro-pedal thing bugs me, but it did the trick and did it well, but it's exactly the opposite of what the Yeti website suggests. And it bobs a LOT if I leave it all the way out. A LOT.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Oh, also keep in mind that this is a 5.0 DHX, so I don't have the same "lower knobs" that you all keep referring to! Apparently, it's also an entirely different shock!

 

[zedro]

Oh, also keep in mind that this is a 5.0 DHX, so I don't have the same "lower knobs" that you all keep referring to! Apparently, it's also an entirely different shock!

yes, i am talking about the 5.0 DHX, i ran one for a couple of months before the season ended (i got it as soon as Go-Ride got them in stock).

Basically you are tuning the thing backwards to eliminate bottom out, ie. your overdamping the whole travel. Your "lower knob" is the bottom out, that should be all the way in if you are bottoming out, and your pressure should be higher if you are blowing your travel through the bumps. Really the ProPedal is the last adjustment you should be making, and that should be to adjust for pedal-bob, not bottom out!

anyways, its upto you to get the best performance out of the shock.

 

[Alloy]

I'm glad you got it working. It does seem odd that the pro pedal helped the bottoming out. To me it allways felt like it had a blow off. Anyways If it works thats all that counts.

 

[zedro]

I'm glad you got it working. It does seem odd that the pro pedal helped the bottoming out. To me it allways felt like it had a blow off. Anyways If it works thats all that counts.

the thing is the pro-pedal is tied into the whole damping system; its sorta like the equivalent to using a heavier oil. The Fox manual even states that there is an interraction between the ProPedal and the boost pressure. Darren (i think) from PUSH had a good explanation of how the whole thing works awhile back.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Well, I am going to have to keep working with it as just when I SEEM to have it, it "changes", i.e.- different riding style. I AM having some differences between slow speed aggressive manuvering and high speed runs. I just took it for another cruise with some slightly different terrain and it's not right.
Zedro may be right, I am doing everything the opposite of what it should be. Zedro, how much do you weigh and what was your spring rate, and was it right for you?
Again, I am 170 and my spring is a 400# unit. My riding is mostly jumping, 8' - 15' hucks, and urban. Nice mix. I need it to huck and pedal!
Find a 500lb spring and start over?

 

[zedro]

well i'm using a 400# spring, but thats tuned to my bike (165lbs+ heavy ass bike, 9" travel, 2.75 stroke shock, rising rate linkage and 2.75-3" of sag....i run it real soft). 85-90psi with 1/3rd bottom out, and no Pro-Pedal. Its setup more race-style i guess, eats terrain at speed but not setup for drops bigger than ~4'.

Since you are mostly jumping (and with the ASX linkage), i'd probably go right ahead and just completly screw in the bottom-out to start, set to 90psi and increase from there, and dont touch the ProPedal (ie. screw it out all the way) unless you feel it bob while sitting with a lively pedal stroke.

If its set nice for terrain but find its not damped enough for urban, i suppose you could cheat by increasing the pro-pedal in that situation, since you dont really need the suppleness in that situation anyways.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Gonna try that, let you know tomorrow.

 

[Alloy]

the thing is the pro-pedal is tied into the whole damping system; its sorta like the equivalent to using a heavier oil. The Fox manual even states that there is an interraction between the ProPedal and the boost pressure. Darren (i think) from PUSH had a good explanation of how the whole thing works awhile back.

I understand that the air pressure has a effect on how the shock pedals. What I don't understand is the propedal knob itself. Because of it's position, at first I thought all it did was restricted oil flow as the shaft displaced it on the compression stroke. If that was so, it would do a lot for bottom out resistance. "Like you said, adding a thicker oil." But after messing it with on my own shock it didn't necessarily do that. It just makes the shock feel like it has glue on the wipers. Such that it is initially sticky but once broken free it starts moving pretty easy. That's why I think It has a blow off of some sort.

What ever they did It works really well. I like it so much I usually run mine almost all the way in.

 

[zedro]

I understand that the air pressure has a effect on how the shock pedals. What I don't understand is the propedal knob itself. Because of it's position, at first I thought all it did was restricted oil flow as the shaft displaced it on the compression stroke. If that was so, it would do a lot for bottom out resistance. "Like you said, adding a thicker oil." But after messing it with on my own shock it didn't necessarily do that. It just makes the shock feel like it has glue on the wipers. Such that it is initially sticky but once broken free it starts moving pretty easy. That's why I think It has a blow off of some sort.

What ever they did It works really well. I like it so much I usually run mine almost all the way in.

well the valve that restricts the flow is both controlled by the air pressure and the ProPedal (PP) which essentially is a spring; turning up the Propedal pre-loads this spring. So a certain amount of force is required to open this valve when the PP is on; but even when its open, this force is still required to keep it open. Heres Darrens explanation:

As for the DHX, it utilizes a valve that has the air pressure from the IFP on one side of it, and a coil spring attached to the ProPedal adjuster on the other side. The air pressure keeps the valve closed until the force being produced by the piston rod displacement opens it up allowing the shock to move. ......Anyway, by turning the Propedal adjuster you're adjusting the preload on the coil spring that sits on top of this valve, hence increasing or decreasing the amount of force that the piston rod has to generate before the valve opens. If you increase the IFP pressure, you'd have to increase the Propedal dial to maintain the same level of valve delay and vise versa.

so while the damping characteristic produced by the PP isnt linear, it can still help in reducing bottom-out since it is a damping component none the less (this is the effect you're seeing). However its not ideal to dial it for bottom-out issues because you are killing the bump sensitivity of the shock. This doesnt mean its not the right setup (because maybe you like the feel of maxed PP), my whole point this entire thread is it's not the proper adjustment or diagnosis to make if someone says their only problem is bottoming out, because you will be mostly affecting the top end of the shocks performance instead of just the bottom end which was the problem in the first place.

thats why theres a proper order to tune each variable for the initial setup.

 

[Boner]

On a related note....does a titanium spring do anything other than save weight. I know the DHX5 is available with a titanium spring but I don't want to splurge if it just bling!

Boner

 

[DirtEveryDay]

thats why theres a proper order to tune each variable for the initial setup.

Which is also a problem because each variable DOES, to a certain extent, affect the other components. I've probably got more than one issue, and can't single it out. I think perhaps I may be confusing it with other setups, like not understanding the sag element. Just getting off of a hardtail doesn't help, but I think this shock may just sag a bit more than I assumed. So, if I can accept that, or atleast get by it and work with the other adjustments I may be fine. Like said above, I may be trying to control bottom-out with my spring, and vice-versa.
I just need some REAL ride time, not this around-the-block and over-a-curb crap!

 

[zedro]

ahh, yeah comming off the HT doesnt help. I've heard some say the DHX is at least easier to tune than a 5th or 6way.

Everything does kinda work off the other, but thats why it really is important to tune things in order and not willy-nilly. You should be able to find the ballpark fairly quick tho with the proper procedure, then you can fiddle with fine tuning if need be.

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

There is only one true way to know that your DHX is set up correctly and working properly....

You should feel a big CLUNK about 1/3 into travel, and upon rebound. Then, AND ONLY THEN...will your DHX be performing at an optimal level(like the rest of ours).


(patiently waiting for Push fix kit)