[CrabJoe StretchPants]

This is where we disagree. The amount of money the space program or an F1 program takes to develop velcro or better fuel mileage is astronomical compared to what it costs to develop a high end bike. Disc brakes on bikes, easy to use trigger shifting and even better frame materials have all come from comparitively cheap programs.

Have you ever been to china, japan or the netherlands? Bikes are everywhere. People, on a massive scale, benefit from bike development. Whether it be safer parts, longer lasting parts or a simply a better experience on their way to the grocery store, bikes do matter.

Check out Hans Rey's wheel's for life program if you want to see how much difference a bicycle can actually make. It may sound cheesy, but a decently operating, long last bicycle really can change lives.

http://wheels4life.org/

Now let's use alternative energy as an example. If solar power can be successfully developed and implemented so that 80% of all bike manufacturers use solely solar power to power their facilities, who is lending the greatest beneficial contributions?


I guess it's all relative, but the extent to which bike related development contributes to other fields is somewhat limited and on a much smaller scale than the more universal fields I am talking about.

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not looking at this discussion as "what helps and what doesn't", but more of "what helps more."

Good discussion I must say.

 

[[TA]]

I would have to agree this is one of the better threads I've seen in some time. Although I work in the bike field currently, I must say I also have a thing for wind turbines, so who knows what I'll be doing in 10 years. If this were on MTBR or Pbike someone would have been shanked by now. I think the real moral of the story is for the user who started the thread, and that is going into a field like mechanical engineering will only open doors. Over the 4-5 years you'll spend in school I'm sure you'll consider multiple career paths, who knows where you'll end up, that's half the fun.

 

[Transcend]

Now let's use alternative energy as an example. If solar power can be successfully developed and implemented so that 80% of all bike manufacturers use solely solar power to power their facilities, who is lending the greatest beneficial contributions?


I guess it's all relative, but the extent to which bike related development contributes to other fields is somewhat limited and on a much smaller scale than the more universal fields I am talking about.

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not looking at this discussion as "what helps and what doesn't", but more of "what helps more."

Good discussion I must say.

I agree that solar energy, if made efficient and affordable would be a huge contribution. However, the point I was making was that dollar for dollar, they aren't even in the same ballpark. It costs a few hundred grand to field a MTB race team and development program. It costs a few hundred million to properly push forward energy development.

Of course bikes offer aren't as substantial as alternative energies (though they will help cut emissions, clearly), they are still a fairly important mode of transport worldwide and are, comparatively, dirt cheap to engineer.

 

[MMike]

I'd have to say the Toshi's work on his eBike has contributed more to "advancing society" than your average DH racing team.

 

[sayndesyn]

I must say that areas such as internal gearboxes and cheap/strong composite research could have huge trickledown effects in the world that uses bikes. I think about 50% of the bikes that get tossed into a closet are for something as simple as a flat tire, a broken chain, or a completely bend der. hanger. Ways to make bikes completely idiot proof and last longer with little to no maint. could have huge effects.

In a way anyone working on high performance bikes is helping out the environment because the better the bikes get the likelier that some little grom will hit up his folks for a $6000 dh bike instead of a new CRF. Naturally his parents will drive him to the mountain in their 15mpg lexus SUV and then dine on Veal that night before they sip a non fairtrade coffee to try to sober up before they play slalom with the town kids riding their fixies on the way to their condo.

 

[LMC]

I must say that areas such as internal gearboxes and cheap/strong composite research could have huge trickledown effects in the world that uses bikes. I think about 50% of the bikes that get tossed into a closet are for something as simple as a flat tire, a broken chain, or a completely bend der. hanger. Ways to make bikes completely idiot proof and last longer with little to no maint. could have huge effects.

thats exactly what i was about to post.. designing DH frames on their own has very little trickle down to lower end bikes.. road bikes and hybrids influence that end of the market more and they already use more advanced materials than DH frames

as for getting internal gearboxes in frames it will take someone to release a gearbox good enough to put huge pressure on the major players in the bike manufacturing market. At the minute they dont have to make a move as rear mechs are standard, so cheap to make and need replaced, generating more cash.

Its the same with cars, only of late have major manufacturers showed any concern towards environment friendly fuel consumption figures. its not like a load of technology suddenly got placed in their lap.. they just didnt make a move because they didnt have to. The russians have known how to run a car on water since the 60s, but were not allowed to release the engine as oil is big business.

 

[Transcend]

The russians have known how to run a car on water since the 60s, but were not allowed to release the engine as oil is big business.

Tinfoil hat party up in this place!

ps: steam powered cars aren't very efficient or ecologically friendly.

 

[ohio]

Bikes can be very fulfilling AND can have a huge impact on the world, or they can do neither. I did my thesis work on a new bike design (and manufacture, and distribution) for developing countries... if it ever bears fruit it will have tremendous impact. I did my first start-up on extremely cutting edge materials/mech technology for high-end bikes... if we had decided to commercialize it, it would have been decades before it trickled down to any kind of broad impact, and even then may have had none. In any case, my interests expanded beyond engineering and it was nice to be in a position to be flexible.

All I'm saying is while your interests may be specific, keep your degrees general. Nothing against choosing the path you find most fulfilling. I did exactly that about 2.5 years ago. But it's nice to know if my priorities change (family, kids, etc.) I can find higher paying, but less interesting work.

 

[MMike]

Impossible. Only helicopters matter.

 

[djamgils]

Have you ever been to china, japan or the netherlands? Bikes are everywhere. People, on a massive scale, benefit from bike development. Whether it be safer parts, longer lasting parts or a simply a better experience on their way to the grocery store, bikes do matter.

Well I am from the netherlands. Almost all the students ride bicycles and that are mostly crappy bikes of at least 10years of age that are durable and cheap. And they are handled like this.

The grown ups who ride a bike to commute ride bikes like this,
http://www.sparta.nl/nl/sparta-fiets.asp?bike=8199840&segment=50
I do not think that technology developed for/in DH bikes is being used in those kind of bikes. Also because the major dutch brands, sparta, gazelle, batavus ... dont even make DH bikes or not even MTB or race road bikes.
Those commuter bikes weigh between 15 and 25kg.

I dont think the technology available for comuter bikes is not the problem why not many people ride bikes in other places of the world. I expect it to be a sociological (dont know if thats the correct word) problem, and a infrastructural problem.

 

[LMC]

Tinfoil hat party up in this place!

ps: steam powered cars aren't very efficient or ecologically friendly.

sorry for the "tin hatness" my point was that more bikes being used as opposed to less environmentally friendly methods of transport is a bigger issue that someone designing a DH frame can make a impact on. Similar to what Djmgils is saying i suppose

i wasnt refering to steam powered cars.. slightly OT but google stan meyer. an american who came up with a similar invention.

 

[ohio]

i wasnt refering to steam powered cars.. slightly OT but google stan meyer. an american who came up with a similar invention.

Dude, there is no water powered car. It TAKES energy to split h2o.

I take that back. I've got one parked right next to my perpetual motion machine.

 

[ska todd]

I take that back. I've got one parked right next to my perpetual motion machine.

Can you beam that up to me Scotty?

-ska todd

 

[C.P.]

Haven't bothered to read the whole thread, but another way to get an idea of what skills you'll need to be a bicycle frame designer can be found by looking at a job description and required skills and training(college) for an opening at one of the larger companies:

like this:

Specialized Product Design Engineer

 

[ChrisKring]

Dude, there is no water powered car. It TAKES energy to split h2o.

I take that back. I've got one parked right next to my perpetual motion machine.

Can I borrow it? I can't believe I paid all that money to take thermodynamics classes when they were all wrong.

Seriously, I do not understand how people selling these kits to run your car on water don't get sued for stealing money from their customers. First, the first and second laws of thermodynamics would need to be null for it to work. Second, even if it did work, their testing methods are so flawed that any results don't hold any water. Driving a vehicle 30 miles and measuring the fuel consumption by filling the tank at a gas station is not a repeatable measurement method. Some of these inventors really beleive what they are saying though. some of the youtube videos are pretty funny.

The scary thing to me is that about half of the degreed engineers I work with think that it might work. Some of these guys have graduate level degrees.

The only possible benifit was one one of the units I saw was that it acted as a water injection system and also leaned the engine out by allowing air into the intake downstream of the airflow sensor.

 

[Stray_cat]

Can I borrow it? I can't believe I paid all that money to take thermodynamics classes when they were all wrong.

Seriously, I do not understand how people selling these kits to run your car on water don't get sued for stealing money from their customers. First, the first and second laws of thermodynamics would need to be null for it to work. Second, even if it did work, their testing methods are so flawed that any results don't hold any water. Driving a vehicle 30 miles and measuring the fuel consumption by filling the tank at a gas station is not a repeatable measurement method. Some of these inventors really beleive what they are saying though. some of the youtube videos are pretty funny.

The scary thing to me is that about half of the degreed engineers I work with think that it might work. Some of these guys have graduate level degrees.

Actually I think one of them did get sued.

 

[wiscodh]

Dude, there is no water powered car. It TAKES energy to split h2o.

I take that back. I've got one parked right next to my perpetual motion machine.

CRAP!!!!! you beat me too making it......how am i going to retire to the style which i would like to be accustomed to.....

 

[sanjuro]

I thought the first step to working in the bike industry is dropping out of college.

 

[sayndesyn]

The only possible benifit was one one of the units I saw was that it acted as a water injection system and also leaned the engine out by allowing air into the intake downstream of the airflow sensor.

I didn't watch the other nonsense but there is some pretty cool stuff going on with water injection. There was a show on dateline or maybe it was 48 hours about a guy who put more work into a system his dad made years ago for water injection. The investigative reporter was sure that he was going to uncover a scam, but it turned out it really worked and he was getting about 50mpg off of a muscle car.