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Hardtail as a Primary

Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
11,069
10,355
Crawlorado
Any of you guys running a hardtail as your primary rig?

For some reason the idea is appealing to me, despite the protestations of my back and nethers.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,675
22,785
Sleazattle
Yes. Have primarily ridden a hard tail for the past 4 years, although I did ride my Reeb a lot last year, but that was new bike romance.

It took me some time to learn how to be comfortable descending but once I did, I find it to be more fun. Climbing is faster with a much lighter bike and more efficient pedaling but I certainly pay for that as descending is a lot more work than on a fully.

Get the longest dropper you can fit, learn to pump over things. Terrain works well here for a long reach, long travel fork with short chainstays. Fork is setup rather stiff, only use about 120 of the 160mm hitting bumps. The 160 comes into play when landing drops, tend to land front first and let the big fork absorb as much energy as possible.

If I rode flatter terrain I might lean towards something with less aggressive aggressive with longer chainstays but the Chromag is really at home on XC to some fairly gnarly trails. The one thing I do try to avoid is riding difficult trails the first time on the hardtail. Much harder to pump through unfamiliar terrain.

If nothing else it will make you a better rider, also probably more handsome and a better person.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
22,207
7,511
borcester rhymes
Adventurous said:
Any of you guys running a hardtail as your primary rig?

For some reason the idea is appealing to me, despite the protestations of my back and nethers.
Click to expand...
I tried it for a bit. I had a scott scale that was not full on XC. I didn't have much issue on descents- you just stand and rip. I had issues on the ups though, and the up-and-downs that are so frequent out here.

The climbs were tough because good suspension will actually increase traction (antisquat) so your bike climbs better while also absorbing bumps so your back doesn't hurt. I found that it was easier to spin the rear on climbs than on a good FS bike, which actually made it harder to clear the short, punchy, rough and slick climbs.

The other is that out here (East coast) you're going up and down constantly, and it's not as easy to remain standing the entire time. So, your back takes the brunt of the random hits that pop up on otherwise smooth climbs and rolling trails.

I loved that scale as it was sooooo fast on flatter and smoother trails, but it hurt to try and sit through the common trails I rode on and I found that I missed the added traction from FS, so I dumped it. YMMV and I've definitely looked for a cheap replacement, but I was reminded of just what a rigid bike is when I rode my gravel bike through a local trail.
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,762
7,405
Yakistan
I went on a hardtail as a primary bike stint recently - I had a block of 600 miles trail miles that was all on a hardtail, in between squishy bikes.

The bike is a little too small but it really only feels cramped in the saddle. I would suggest getting a frame that fits.

Bike is set up with a FOX 36 140mm fork. 50mm stem. 1x12. Shigura brakes. Hadleys laced to WAO hoops. 2.5wt High Roller 2's.

Having light/strong wheels with fat tires on a hardtail helps them hit above their weight class!

Running a 36mm 140mm is the only way to go! That extra stiffness really helps steer and give confidence.

I've got a 34mm 140mm fork on a SS hardtail but that bike only gets pulled out for trail building duties.

Also, low stem + tall bars is not where I started but where it ended up.

Resized_20240727_121603_1738006766266.jpeg
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,762
7,405
Yakistan
If your not an XL sized rider - those Mullet Honeymakers ride amazing. Maybe one of those finest hardtails I've ever thrown a leg over.

The Mullet full suspension bike is 70% as awesome as the hardtail. The guy who owns the company is a typical bike business one off character.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
11,069
10,355
Crawlorado
Westy said:
Yes. Have primarily ridden a hard tail for the past 4 years, although I did ride my Reeb a lot last year, but that was new bike romance.

It took me some time to learn how to be comfortable descending but once I did, I find it to be more fun. Climbing is faster with a much lighter bike and more efficient pedaling but I certainly pay for that as descending is a lot more work than on a fully.

Get the longest dropper you can fit, learn to pump over things. Terrain works well here for a long reach, long travel fork with short chainstays. Fork is setup rather stiff, only use about 120 of the 160mm hitting bumps. The 160 comes into play when landing drops, tend to land front first and let the big fork absorb as much energy as possible.

If I rode flatter terrain I might lean towards something with less aggressive aggressive with longer chainstays but the Chromag is really at home on XC to some fairly gnarly trails. The one thing I do try to avoid is riding difficult trails the first time on the hardtail. Much harder to pump through unfamiliar terrain.

If nothing else it will make you a better rider, also probably more handsome and a better person.
Click to expand...
Thats what has me considering all this. My Yeti is almost 10 years old, as I consider fresh blood, I'm wondering if a hardtail would get me most of the way there at a fraction of the cost.

Probably 40% of all the miles I've ridden in the past 5 years have been on a hardtail. Admittedly, that's not a ton, comparatively speaking, but I seldom felt like I was being held back because the hardtail. Definitely a different riding style, both on the ups and downs, but the right hardtail geometry seems to compensate for some of the cons.

If anything, the biggest adjustment is realizing I'm an out of shape POS and can't just plow my way through a ride.

Westy said:
If nothing else it will make you a better rider, also probably more handsome and a better person.
Click to expand...
As if that's possible.

Sandwich said:
I tried it for a bit. I had a scott scale that was not full on XC. I didn't have much issue on descents- you just stand and rip. I had issues on the ups though, and the up-and-downs that are so frequent out here.

The climbs were tough because good suspension will actually increase traction (antisquat) so your bike climbs better while also absorbing bumps so your back doesn't hurt. I found that it was easier to spin the rear on climbs than on a good FS bike, which actually made it harder to clear the short, punchy, rough and slick climbs.

The other is that out here (East coast) you're going up and down constantly, and it's not as easy to remain standing the entire time. So, your back takes the brunt of the random hits that pop up on otherwise smooth climbs and rolling trails.

I loved that scale as it was sooooo fast on flatter and smoother trails, but it hurt to try and sit through the common trails I rode on and I found that I missed the added traction from FS, so I dumped it. YMMV and I've definitely looked for a cheap replacement, but I was reminded of just what a rigid bike is when I rode my gravel bike through a local trail.
Click to expand...
Luckily I've got a fully functioning, 26" steel hardtail to test this theory on. I've ridden most everywhere around here on a hardtail of some sort.

The traction thing is definitely real, though I found my riding style would change to compensate. Better use of momentum and balance to overcome the traction limitations. 70% of the time it worked every time.

boostindoubles said:
I went on a hardtail as a primary bike stint recently - I had a block of 600 miles trail miles that was all on a hardtail, in between squishy bikes.

The bike is a little too small but it really only feels cramped in the saddle. I would suggest getting a frame that fits.

Bike is set up with a FOX 36 140mm fork. 50mm stem. 1x12. Shigura brakes. Hadleys laced to WAO hoops. 2.5wt High Roller 2's.

Having light/strong wheels with fat tires on a hardtail helps them hit above their weight class!

Running a 36mm 140mm is the only way to go! That extra stiffness really helps steer and give confidence.

I've got a 34mm 140mm fork on a SS hardtail but that bike only gets pulled out for trail building duties.

Also, low stem + tall bars is not where I started but where it ended up.

View attachment 225488
Click to expand...
A steel hardtail with light wheels, fat tires, and a stiff fork would be ideal. Throw in a belt drive and a gear box and I'd be over the moon.

I started on a hardtail and rode that thing everywhere, so there's definitely a nostalgia aspect to all this.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,675
22,785
Sleazattle
For the most part I'd say wheel size is a personal preference but boy does a 29" rear wheel make a hardtail ride a lot smoother. I destroyed an aluminum rim in pretty fast order, built up a Santa Cruz Reserve carbon rim in the back and it has been bullet proof. Much more durable but with similar ride qualities as an alloy rim. They are pretty spendy but a lot of carbon rims can have a harsh ride, alternatives with similar widths and height will probably feel similar.

As for geometry, I prefer my hardtail with a more stable geometry than a fully. Not only does any suspension movement always steepen your head angle, but it is a lot easier to hold a line when your rear wheel is getting pinged around.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
42,770
20,398
Riding past the morgue.
My 10+ year old specialized Crave is my almost daily driver. It's the bike I definitely ride the most even though I have an abundance of choice. I use it for both winter commuting and local mountain biking. Find the right one and there really is no reason to NOT have it be your primary bike. If/when this house ever has discretionary income again my next bike will be the slackest hard tail I can find.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,675
22,785
Sleazattle
Pesqueeb said:
My 10+ year old specialized Crave is my almost daily driver. It's the bike I definitely ride the most even though I have an abundance of choice. I use it for both winter commuting and local mountain biking. Find the right one and there really is no reason to NOT have it be your primary bike. If/when this house ever has discretionary income again my next bike will be the slackest hard tail I can find.
Click to expand...

I have a 2020 Chromag a primer frame with a sweet custom tinted clear coat I need to sell.


8-)


IMG_20200325_183134~2.jpg
 
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
17,718
15,271
I'm about to go from somewhere with 1600ft rocky descents out my front door where my Smash has Exo+ front, DD rear and go through a couple of sets of pads per year to somewhere I can ride almost everything on my rigid 14 year old 29er hardtail.

If it's the right tool for the job...
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,647
11,153
AK
If I'm close to any of you this year I'll gladly come out and beat your joints with a baseball bat for free, you won't even need to buy a hardtail.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
8,137
7,719
I dusted my dual suspension bike off last week and I hated every minute of it, but mine is a dumb one.

For me the Norco Torrent is pretty close to perfect, dropping the fork to 130mm gives a 65deg HA and still less BB drop than most which seem to be wanna be plow bikes with 65mm BB drop and a huge fork.
I have done a couple of mullet hardtails and it's more work than a full 29er, I mullet on a dual suspension bike but not a hardtail.

The Norco is fairly stiff and short in the back end, so the WAO wibbly wobbly rim I put on it means I can sit and pedal more and the bike is quicker in bumpy corners than the previous stiffer alum alloy rim.
Ideally I like 430-440mm rear ends to help reduce the feedback to the feet, some trusty old snake stays for a bit more flex would be nice too.
I rode this line on my hardtail a few months back and it was fine for it, the trail was a bit smoother when we rode it but it was a bit wet. There were a few comments about bringing a hardtail, I don't comment on people riding 160mm rigs on XC, if they enjoy no trail feedback, good for them.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
11,069
10,355
Crawlorado
Westy said:
For the most part I'd say wheel size is a personal preference but boy does a 29" rear wheel make a hardtail ride a lot smoother. I destroyed an aluminum rim in pretty fast order, built up a Santa Cruz Reserve carbon rim in the back and it has been bullet proof. Much more durable but with similar ride qualities as an alloy rim. They are pretty spendy but a lot of carbon rims can have a harsh ride, alternatives with similar widths and height will probably feel similar.

As for geometry, I prefer my hardtail with a more stable geometry than a fully. Not only does any suspension movement always steepen your head angle, but it is a lot easier to hold a line when your rear wheel is getting pinged around.
Click to expand...
I have the sum total of about 6 minutes riding a 29'er, with none of those 6 coming on a hardtail. :D

Though I can see how it could be beneficial for smoothing things out. To be honest, I've never really had any desire to get onto a 29er, if that makes sense.

Pesqueeb said:
My 10+ year old specialized Crave is my almost daily driver. It's the bike I definitely ride the most even though I have an abundance of choice. I use it for both winter commuting and local mountain biking. Find the right one and there really is no reason to NOT have it be your primary bike. If/when this house ever has discretionary income again my next bike will be the slackest hard tail I can find.
Click to expand...
I'm on a Transition Transam from 2008/2009. If it wasn't plagued by outdated standards (steep HA (68.5*!!!), 1 1/8" head tube, 135mm rear end, 26" wheels and 27.2mm seatpost), I'd be perfectly content to ride that thing for another decade.

6thElement said:
I'm about to go from somewhere with 1600ft rocky descents out my front door where my Smash has Exo+ front, DD rear and go through a couple of sets of pads per year to somewhere I can ride almost everything on my rigid 14 year old 29er hardtail.

If it's the right tool for the job...
Click to expand...
So this thread is more than just philosophical musings for you, now isn't it? :D
 
FlipSide

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,468
940
When I bought my ESD inn 2022, it became my primary ride, as I had simply too much fun riding it. I think I did 2 out of 3 rides on it for my first two years of ownership.

However, riding fast trails on a hardtail sucks, so does riding big compressions. I still absolutely love riding my hardtail, but I am now in my late 40's (and so does my ankles), so I need to plan the trails I will ride in advance. i.e.: The double-blacks with big features are out when I'm on the hardtail.

A hardtail as a primary bike can totally work, but I think the best use for a hardtail is as a second bike, if you have the funds.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,675
22,785
Sleazattle
It has been 4 months since a proper ride. Shoulder should be good to go but shit will be buried under snow for a while. This thread has me jonesing.











Also, I may have a hardtail problem.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
8,137
7,719
Production Privee have some of their old frames pretty cheap, not sure what postage would be.
They do have IS brake mounts and the stupid Campy headsets though.
production-privee.com

Garage

Production Privée bikes are collector’s pieces, timeless and unique. Here you will find those bikes introduced during previous years and that are ready to become a future classic.
production-privee.com production-privee.com

EDIT- And press fit BB.
 
DaveW

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,830
3,319
The bunker at parliament
HardtailHack said:
Production Privee have some of their old frames pretty cheap, not sure what postage would be.
They do have IS brake mounts and the stupid Campy headsets though.
production-privee.com

Garage

Production Privée bikes are collector’s pieces, timeless and unique. Here you will find those bikes introduced during previous years and that are ready to become a future classic.
production-privee.com production-privee.com

EDIT- And press fit BB.
Click to expand...
Yep I have a Ti Shan GT and it's a crazy fun bike! I've ridden the steel ones as well and they are also a hell of a lot of fun.

I'm in my mid fifties now and the full sus is probably more my daily driver I guess, but I still take the hardtails out about 35% of the time, and they are fine on black trails.... Have to go around on the biggest of features on double blacks though?
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,866
3,380
Only hardtails I still ride regularly are the DJ and pump track bikes. Everything else with no rear suspension has drop bars on it.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
8,137
7,719
4xBoy said:
I kinda want a sklar sweetspot.
Click to expand...
Three grand for a steel hardtail frame, that would cost about as much as a Nicolai dual suspension frame in Australia, crazy money!

After trying a few cottage frames I have decided I like mass produced Taiwanese frames more.
Grim Ripper looks pretty much perfect for me-
radicalbicycleco.com

Grim Ripper (Steel) - AM - Frame Only

MK2 due to land March/April 2025! BECAUSE WHAT THE F**K IS DOWNCOUNTRY ANYWAY? the delinquent younger sibling to the Chilli Dog: We took the short travel hardtail platform and cranked up the dials.... The Grim Ripper offers maximum stoke with exceptional flexibility in how it can be built...
radicalbicycleco.com
 
4xBoy

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,518
3,663
Minneapolis
HardtailHack said:
Three grand for a steel hardtail frame, that would cost about as much as a Nicolai dual suspension frame in Australia, crazy money!

After trying a few cottage frames I have decided I like mass produced Taiwanese frames more.
Grim Ripper looks pretty much perfect for me-
radicalbicycleco.com

Grim Ripper (Steel) - AM - Frame Only

MK2 due to land March/April 2025! BECAUSE WHAT THE F**K IS DOWNCOUNTRY ANYWAY? the delinquent younger sibling to the Chilli Dog: We took the short travel hardtail platform and cranked up the dials.... The Grim Ripper offers maximum stoke with exceptional flexibility in how it can be built...
radicalbicycleco.com
Click to expand...
Sorry not the sweet spot, The Tall tale $1199 I forgot what the current one was called.

Still have to admit, I can't take riding rough stuff anymore so my Steezl will stay as my go to.
 
MikeD

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,746
1,827
chez moi
I am expecting a Neuhaus Hummingbird within a few weeks and think it may be my primary on the trails out here in entire state of Northern California. But we'll see. I've been running my hardtails with a rigid fork for a few years and I really enjoy it, but it's too punishing in certain places.
 
MMcG

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,465
20
Burlington, Connecticut
MikeD said:
I am expecting a Neuhaus Hummingbird within a few weeks and think it may be my primary on the trails out here in entire state of Northern California. But we'll see. I've been running my hardtails with a rigid fork for a few years and I really enjoy it, but it's too punishing in certain places.
Click to expand...
What bike is the Neuhaus replacing?
 
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