Hardtails with long travel forks

Bicyclist · Jun 13, 2006

If you're going to do it I'd say run a 6" singlecrown so it's not really big and unusable. Definately run something like a Z.1 that's low and big travel. A 66 might work but it's talllll.

If you're looking at spending a fair ammount on a nice DH hardtail, why not just step up and get a 6 and 6 ride like a Specialized Enduro, Santa Cruz Nomad, etc? It would be better on trails by far IMO...

Bicyclist · Jun 13, 2006

I've ridden a HT w/ a DC and I hated it. The bike flopped around in the corners and was really unpredictable because the fork moved around a ton and messed with the geometry as it did. Hence my recommendation of less than or equal to 6" of travel.

Check out a Z.1 or a 36. I think they'd suit the bill. Even a 6" 66. But for the childrens' sake, don't run a dual crown.

Bicyclist · Jun 13, 2006

It was a Hardrock frame with a 6" Jr. T fork. Not the best combo, I know, but all frames' geo will be affected similarly.

Bicyclist · Jun 13, 2006

By the way out of your choices the Imp is the one I'd run for sure.

Bicyclist · Jun 13, 2006

I wouldn't trust the SC w/ a big fork. Just seems a bit underbuilt. I agree about the IMP maybe being overkill.

The Loki sounds good. Maybe look at a .243, I think Ciarian has one w/ a DC and it looks pretty good. Check out the burly hardtails thread for ideas. Good luck!

DirtBag · Jun 13, 2006

Currently running a Vagrant with a Fox Van RC2.

Polandspring88 · Jun 13, 2006

If you are set on a hardtail with a DC fork try and find a Sinister Ridge paired to something like a Boxxer or Super T. There are plenty of those around these parts and guys seem to love them.

habitatxskate · Jun 13, 2006

Bicyclist has a point, the enduro is super smooth with a 6.75" rear air and a front fox, its super nice, i rode it!

SLOPE · Jun 13, 2006

Embrace the Evil!! :devil:

PaulE · Jun 13, 2006

why not run a boxxer ride on the front of the hardtail, so you can have trhe big travel when you need it, and the steeper angles when you need them.

EastCoastHucker · Jun 13, 2006

This is my Morphine with a 7" BW's

I use this bike only for DHing and is just a blast... I used to DH with a fully but after I try a HT at the mountain I got huck.

cheers
Juanjo

AirAddict · Jun 13, 2006

The imperial would be the only hardtail i would get to run a long travel fork on... and i wouldn even like a DC on it... 66 or a 36 is where it's at.

mandown · Jun 13, 2006

PaulE said:
why not run a boxxer ride on the front of the hardtail, so you can have trhe big travel when you need it, and the steeper angles when you need them.

QUALITY IDEA!!! - i think this might be your best option.

i ran my norco 5 hun with a shiver for a few weeks. it was a blast. it makes the bike much harder to jump. however, it plowed over stuff on the trail. i did not notice any problems with handling other than jumping. i think the frame geo was key for this. it was a lucky good combo.

the best advice i could give for running a setup like this would be to get clipless pedals. it makes it more comfortable to let the back float around. with the front plowing everthing, letting the back "loft" over things is key.

these days, i am running an IH Yakuza Bakuto with a Pike. i have found that i tend to run the pike in the shorter travel settings for most situations. it is rare that i run it at a full 140mm.

seeing as how i liked the norco with a long fork, but the IH with a shorter fork, i would say the frame geo is the key to rocking a big fork on a HT. it seems the evil is well suited for long forks based on the number of peeps running them and happy with it. i think the vagrant is hot! transition is a good group of peeps. it seems they want the bike to handle well with a big fork. give them a call.

Toshi · Jun 13, 2006

http://tjclark.ath.cx/images/biking/bikes and parts/a rolling cliche - june 6, 2004/Images/0.jpg

http://tjclark.ath.cx/images/biking/bikes and parts/a rolling cliche - june 6, 2004/Images/1.jpg

:devil: . the monster worked a WHOLE lot better with my canfield, i'll tell you that.

(uninlining pics to save bandwidth)

Toshi · Jun 13, 2006

bjanga said:
Toshi can you get full leg extension on that thing? I imagine it is awkward, but it it possible? How tall are you?

nope, it was impossible and i'm 173.5 cm last i was measured (5'8"). the seat gets too far back due to the seat tube angle.

dw · Jun 13, 2006

I used to ride the heck out my Imperial with 6 inch fork. I bet an SL with a gravity dropper and a 6 inch fork like I used to run on mine would be unreal. And someone asked about the weight, at 6 lbs, it weighs less than many XC racing full suspension frames but can take more abuse than many DH frames. If youre smart about the build it could easily be under 30 lbs and take anything you can dish.

Dave

dw · Jun 13, 2006

SLOPE said:
Embrace the Evil!! :devil:

I saw in your signature that you have a first gen imperial, nice!!

Dave

SilentJ · Jun 13, 2006

bjanga said:
Toshi can you get full leg extension on that thing? I imagine it is awkward, but it it possible? How tall are you?

Toshi said:

nope, it was impossible and i'm 173.5 cm last i was measured (5'8"). the seat gets too far back due to the seat tube angle.

Click to expand...

I was able to get full extension on my LeToy3, but when I was running the monster it was already a wheelie machine. I was running 26"F and 24"R and everybody always commented on how steep the head angle was. I found that it worked great for a freeride/dh bike - not the best for either, but I'd probably run the same setup again if I was strapped for cash and had to scrape something together.

Red Bull · Jun 13, 2006

EastCoastHucker said:
I got huck.

you got huck?

DH biker · Jun 13, 2006

Get a Cromo hardtail... much smoother ride. I have a cromo BMX bike and although it is a little heavier than the Aluminum BMX bikes, it is a much smoother ride.

DH biker · Jun 13, 2006

bjanga said:
I am a little worried about corrosion with cromo . . . although my worrying is probably unwarranted.

I have a 2001 Frame that is cromo and there is still nothing wrong with it... Just a FYI. And I still put my confidence into the bike that it will not fail me.

Slugman · Jun 13, 2006

If you're looking at the Evil Imp, I suggest the Sluggo from Soul Cycles. They make solid bikes (I have the Titan which I abuse regularly), and you'll have more money left over for components.

DH biker · Jun 13, 2006

If only they would finish their site... I was going to get the sluggo but since their site wasn't done I decided to get something else.

Slugman · Jun 13, 2006

DH biker said:
If only they would finish their site... I was going to get the sluggo but since their site wasn't done I decided to get something else.

I actually bought another frame... but didn't like it and sold it off.

Last ditch effort I emailed them again - bingo they had 'em.

Now I have to start building it up!

Mr. Furious · Jun 13, 2006

bjanga said:
I am beginning to look around for a new hardtail. I ride a lot of DH-oriented trails on a hardtail with a 5" fork. I would like to know your opinions and experiences about the point when more travel makes little difference in the ride quality because the rigid rear end gets uncontrollable (I am assuming there is a point . . .)

I can use all of my 5" of travel and am afraid that 6" may be too little. Personally I think an Imperial with a 7" or 8" fork would be a blast but I do not want unnecessary weight and cost.

The list at this moment is:
Soul Cycles Loki (because of the shorter CS and slacker HA compared to the Titan)
Evil Imperial
Santa Cruz Chameleon
Transition Vagrant

Here's my old bike

Got stolen 2 months after I finished building it -- 2000 6" boxxer on the front with the '03 decal kit.

I loved the bike on the local hills but it was obviously not particularly good for climbing. Never had a problem with wheel flop -- the boxxer wasn't any taller than a 5" marzocchi fork of the same year

Currently in the process of building an '06 black 17.5" cove stiffee with a 2003 6" sherman slider...

SuspectDevice · Jun 14, 2006

Yes, the newest ridges are 4.5 pounds. They will be plenty strong. The original metalhead was 4.25# with a thinner headtube and weaker dropouts, and plenty of those are going on 9 years old. Any '05 or '06 ridge you buy used will be 5.5# and you'll be able to run it over in a truck.

The new DNA is down to 5 pounds from last years 6.25# as well. Not having Smutok on the team means the frames can be that much lighter! Most of the weight savings on the DNA this year is all in the backend, with more hogged out dropouts and slightly lighter stays.

Shortbus · Jun 14, 2006

I've run an Imperial SL with a 6" 01 SuperT for a few months now, I mostly ride urban but have taken her XC'ing and DH'ing a bit now and absolutely LOVE it. Obvisouly, a HT for dh'ing beats your body up a bit more and won't get the same speed as a FS (duh), but it's definitely worth the compromise for a do-it-all setup IMO. The imperials shine at that.
The SL has the nice thing about running a straight seat tube so normal leg extension is easily achieved (and I'm 5'5), while full seat down makes it run like a normal imperial. Plus the imperial never felt as "harsh" as other hardtails did, I have no idea why but they just don't.

I also def. recommend running a chainguide if you DH. :cool:

I have never tried a taller fork than mine on any hardtail so I don't know for fact, but i'd guess that more than a 6" travel fork will likely over-offset the rear end, even with a 6" fork it's not always easy to predict the rear end's behaviour as the fork eats up the bump, I generally run my 6" fork rather harsh to compensate for this fact otherwise it does feel unbalanced esp. at higher speeds.

drt_jumper · Jun 14, 2006

The Soul Cycles Loki was designed around a 100mm fork, putting on a 7+inch fork on it aside from possibly voiding the warranty and putting lots of stress on the headtube, the bike will turn like a tractor trailer. The frame rides well with a 130mm fork on it, it is pretty slack with that length fork any more will ruin the geometry. Keep in mind that just because the headtubes on certain frames have certain angles it is all in relation to the fork that it was designed around...also keep in mind that for every inch of travel you add over top of what the frame was designed for will slacken the head tube angle by about 1 degree per inch.

SprungShoulders · Jun 15, 2006

Recycled from the Burly Hardtails thread, but...

My Planet-X Compo. :love: Unfortunately no longer made, but the frame was designed around a 5-6" fork. HA about 67.5-68deg as setup with a 1998 Super-T, 150mm. Steep SA - kind of a hallmark of this frame - makes it easy to weight the front wheel to carve turns or go uphill. The handling is pretty much spot-on for all-around aggressive trail riding, and as long as I get over the front end, it climbs like crazy. Easton FS tubing makes for a decent ride for an aluminum frame. Not steel buttery, but not bad either. It'll be a very sad day when I break this beauty....

The photo is about 18 months old. I've since gone SRAM on the drivetrain, destroyed and replaced the rims, run different tires (IRC Tamashi's), and removed the guards on the fork lowers to let the CNC'ed beauty of #87 (Super-T) shine through.

Hardtails with long travel forks

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