Hasn't been a video camera reccomendation thread for awhile... so... any recommendations?
Trying to keep the damage under $750.
Trying to keep the damage under $750.
HD Camcorder recs?
- Thread starter SkaredShtles
- Start date
theres a bunch of threads i commented in on this topic. really spending $750, you arent getting a great cam...you'll get a good one, but this might be fine for what you are looking for.
whats your primary usage for the cam? how often will you use it? is size a issue? what features are you looking for?
whats your primary usage for the cam? how often will you use it? is size a issue? what features are you looking for?
Family video... that's pretty much it. Size isn't a huge issue - small-ish would be nice. Found this Canon HG20 recently:
This looks like a nice model.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/524522-REG/Sony_PDW_F355L_PDW_F355_XDCAM_HD_1_2_.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/524522-REG/Sony_PDW_F355L_PDW_F355_XDCAM_HD_1_2_.html
No way. No Sony. Been down that road already.
eh, id stay away form Canon consumer cameras IMO.Family video... that's pretty much it. Size isn't a huge issue - small-ish would be nice. Found this Canon HG20 recently:
Pana, Sony make better cams for the consumer market.
but if you were inclined to buy a Canon, the HG21's street price is around $799 right now. not a big diff b/w the two besides for larger HDD and viewfinder, but its around the price you wanted to spend.
if you were inclined to buy one of my cams, let me know and i can hook you up
Hmmm... I'm starting to think I may not really need/want an HD camcorder. Rice - can you recommend a decent Pana SD camcorder? I don't want to deal with another Sony...
You could go super cheap with something like this - newer models now have image stabilization. I wish the biking cameras picked up decent IS:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/04/kodak-zi8-impressions-surprising-functionality-but-its-still/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/04/kodak-zi8-impressions-surprising-functionality-but-its-still/
absolutely. give me a little bit to dig around for you.
for the price you are looking to spend, i would still stick with a HD cam. you can get a really nice SD cam for that type of money, but with the features the lower end HD cams have, you will be more than impressed with them.
the kodak isnt so hot honestly....small sensor from a no name company (when it comes to CE products)
not to promote my company or anything, but our new "toy cam" will have a 8mp CMOS sensor, 1080p output (1440x1080i recording), 30/60fps, 8mp stills, 128mb internal w/ a SDHC slot all for $199.
press release will be in September sometime.
(btw this is my new helmet cam too)
Well it is a $200 camcorder, can't expect too much. The skate footage in NYC re-encoded twice(! - iMovie and Youtube) with half its frames thrown out looked a lot better than most of those worthless helmet cam biking videos...the kodak isnt so hot honestly....small sensor from a no name company (when it comes to CE products)
not to promote my company or anything, but our new "toy cam" will have a 8mp CMOS sensor, 1080p output (1440x1080i recording), 30/60fps, 8mp stills, 128mb internal w/ a SDHC slot all for $199.
press release will be in September sometime.
(btw this is my new helmet cam too)
I love how they post "1080p video" to youtube even though it does not support it, great demo!
How are you going to do your helmet, is the new model setup for that? PR vaporware...we need to know the real release date
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as i mentioned above, its really a no brainer to me to buy a HD HDD cam.
the SDR-H80 is one of their nicer SD HDD cams, that can be had for around $324.88 via amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-SDR-H80-HDD-Camcorder-Black/dp/B001P3P3LC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1236280066&sr=1-1)
their HD cams start off at around $499 for the HDC-SD20K which is a SDHC card based cam.
their HDC-HS20K is a HD HDD cam that is around $599 (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-HS20-HD-Camcorder-Black/dp/B001P3P3KI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1236280448&sr=1-1)
it has a fairly large 80gb HDD along w/ slots for SD/SDHC, optical image stabilization, but it has a very small 1/6" MOS sensor.
my choice for a Pana HD cam is the HDC-HS250 for $738 (http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PANHDCHS250BK)
huge HDD, large 1/4.1" x 3 MOS sensor, O.I.S, , fast lens, and pretty good ergonomics.
if i was to recommend one of my cameras, it would be the GZHD320 going for $719 (http://www.amazon.com/JVC-Everio-GZ-HD320-High-Def-Camcorder/dp/B001OMH1Q4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1233860760&sr=1-1)
large 120gb HDD, Konica Minolta lens, 1/4.1" 3.05Megapixel CMOS, 24Mbps recording, no touch screen!, 20x optical zoom
yeah, the newer toy cams are becoming a cheaper source of video recording capability for consumers who rarely use their cameras.....but, Flip sells tens of thousands of of their HD and SD cams a month. those numbers cant be pushed aside, which is why companies are starting to jump on this bandwagon...like my company, kodak and others.Well it is a $200 camcorder, can't expect too much. The skate footage in NYC re-encoded twice(! - iMovie and Youtube) with half its frames thrown out looked a lot better than most of those worthless helmet cam biking videos...
I love how they post "1080p video" to youtube even though it does not support it, great demo!
How are you going to do your helmet, is the new model setup for that? PR vaporware...we need to know the real release date
i saw someone at Diablow a few weeks ago with a Flip cam mounted inside a water bottle cage mounted to his helmet. now my setup might not be this ghetto, but ill rig something up with a older helmet. we showed a proto with a tripod screw hole on the bottom, but production pieces wont have this....im sure ill think of something along w/ my friend's machine shop.
release date is end of September w/ a $199 retail.
SS; have you considered just a still camera with an exceptional HD/SD video mode? Cuts down on the number of electronics you have to carry.
Victor Rice? You work for Victor? I hope the stuff you make is better than the stuff they make here, cos here it's el-cheapo.
This one looks nice though the PR says 2GB limit per recording
- http://www.dpreview.com/news/0907/09072705panazx1.aspSimilar to this model - http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_tz7_review/
$600 in Japan for that model. Usually electronics of any kind are up to 20% cheaper in the US compared to Japan. Odd.
no, i work for the American company of Victor, JVC.
and our cams are not cheaply made. we currently have the #2 market share in cams. we make three things that are good and cams are one of them....its basically the only product that Victor/JVC actually makes.
SS- if you like one of our cams, let me know and ill get you a special RM price
You mean instead of sub-contracting out to some other company? I know in Japan Victor has pretty much a full range of AV stuff though not as big as Sony, Sharp etc. My 8 year old Victor SVHS is still going but the DVD worked on and off until disappearing in a puff of blue smoke.
Hey rice. What do you guys make that's small and NOT CMOS? I've got a panasonic HDC-SD9 I'm using as a POV cam and I'm wondering what you guys have along those lines.
OR, do you make a CMOS camera with a global shutter like the POV.1 claims to?
Rolling shutters have no place in moving camera shots.
And I agree with you about canons. I've owned a few and without blazingly good light conditions, they seem to have a really flat color saturation. Plus their CMOS/rolling shutters are the worst out there for skewing and making things look like you're viewing the world through jello.
OR, do you make a CMOS camera with a global shutter like the POV.1 claims to?
Rolling shutters have no place in moving camera shots.
And I agree with you about canons. I've owned a few and without blazingly good light conditions, they seem to have a really flat color saturation. Plus their CMOS/rolling shutters are the worst out there for skewing and making things look like you're viewing the world through jello.
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we dont subcontract the products out. for example w/ dvd/vcrs or dvd players in general, there arent too many companys out there who actually make the players. LG is the biggest manufacturer of this type of product, so a lot of companies buy the internals and slap their own chassis on it w/ their own name.
everything we make right now is a CMOS based cam and i see no reason why anyone would want a consumer based CCD cam, particularly b/c a CMOS sensor will give you a more natural light and give the picture a softer feel to it. w/ the newer cams of today, most companys are basing their consumer cams around a CMOS or MOS sensor. more of the prosumer/pro cams are using a 3CCD based sensor.
granted a global shutter does seem to make sense, but in normal lightning conditions, its never usually a big issue, especially to the average Joe. even the almighty RED cam uses a CMOS based sensor with a rolling shutter if im not mistaken.
we could argue for pages on which is better. yes a global shutter is better, but to 99.99% my cams are based for, the have no idea wtf we are talking about and wont notice it until you use a magnify glass to the picture to show them
this is one of our best small cam that is flash memory based. it will also do 600fps but at 640x72 for 2 seconds. its our only real small cam that we make.
http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028550&pathId=141&page=10
hope this helps.
You mentioned using these smaller handheld HD cams as POV cameras.....which is what I use them for.
Rolling shutters suck balls.
Even when not using them for that, something as simple as filming from a car looks like ass.
It just pisses me off because yes, everything small is moving to cmos. The crappy ass videos that get posted all over bike websites for instance are the horrible symptom of this because CMOS is now what's most readily available and that's what they go with.
Tell me this looks like good video to you.
http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Solvista-is-watching-you,322/dacrebrochill17,453
I mean jesus, look at the rear tire towards the end of the clip.
I've owned 2 CCD prosumer cameras, two consumer CMOS cameras and one CCD consumer camera. There's really no reason to go with CMOS if you give a damn about image quality with anything in motion. Sure there are some light sensitivity gains but who cares when when a tree looks like it's growing at a 40 degree angle?
And yes the RED system uses a CMOS/rolling shutter. And I know one person who returned his rental before even using it because of the smearing he was getting in panning test shots.
Just ranting because you work for a company that's taking part in what I see as a wrong direction for a lot of applications. And knowing that JVC is exclusively CMOS, I'll never buy one. And there's a whole lot more of us than 0.1%
Rolling shutters suck balls.
Even when not using them for that, something as simple as filming from a car looks like ass.
It just pisses me off because yes, everything small is moving to cmos. The crappy ass videos that get posted all over bike websites for instance are the horrible symptom of this because CMOS is now what's most readily available and that's what they go with.
Tell me this looks like good video to you.
http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Solvista-is-watching-you,322/dacrebrochill17,453
I mean jesus, look at the rear tire towards the end of the clip.
I've owned 2 CCD prosumer cameras, two consumer CMOS cameras and one CCD consumer camera. There's really no reason to go with CMOS if you give a damn about image quality with anything in motion. Sure there are some light sensitivity gains but who cares when when a tree looks like it's growing at a 40 degree angle?
And yes the RED system uses a CMOS/rolling shutter. And I know one person who returned his rental before even using it because of the smearing he was getting in panning test shots.
Just ranting because you work for a company that's taking part in what I see as a wrong direction for a lot of applications. And knowing that JVC is exclusively CMOS, I'll never buy one. And there's a whole lot more of us than 0.1%
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im using our small cheap "toy cam" as a POV because its cheap, so if i break it, its no sweat off my back. plus its flash based and i dont have to worry about a HDD getting fracked.You mentioned using these smaller handheld HD cams as POV cameras.....which is what I use them for.
Rolling shutters suck balls.
Even when not using them for that, something as simple as filming from a car looks like ass.
It just pisses me off because yes, everything small is moving to cmos. The crappy ass videos that get posted all over bike websites for instance are the horrible symptom of this because CMOS is now what's most readily available.
And yes the RED system uses a CMOS/rolling shutter. And I know one person who returned his rental before even using it because of the smearing he was getting in panning test shots.
Just ranting because you work for a company that's taking part in what I see as a wrong direction for a lot of applications. And knowing that JVC is exclusively CMOS, I'll never buy one. And there's a whole lot more of us than 0.1%
most companies are using CMOS sensors because its cheaper and it can still pack a ton of pixels in a semi-small sized chip.
i would too prefer a 3CCD cam which is what our pro cams are using, but all the consumer cams manufacturers are not using this in their models and i dont see them ever moving back to it as well unfortunately.
and as far as the RED cam goes, i have never heard a single bad thing about the product (besides price) and i have seen some beyond amazing shots, even action shots, being shot by this cam....hell last night CNBC did a story about porn and they showed the film crew shooting a movie using a RED cam. awesome.
i know the people who are going to scrutinize their cinematography work, are not going to like a CMOS sensor, but thats why a lot of prosumer cams are still CCD/3CCD based
edit: that video you posted does show the typical problem with small sensor based cams....which is why i am going to try to use our "toy cam" w/ a decent sized sensor.
and yes, the rear tire shot is a perfect example of a rolling shutter
i only have prototypes of our new cam, so im hesitant to try and mount it to my dome piece and ruin 1 of 5 in the country
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Now it comes out
So then stand out by offering one or two. I'll buy one. The fact that panasonic made/makes the hdc-sd9 means they got me (and several others I know) as a customer as well as someone who sings the praises of their product.
I can't debate the fact that this is the way the industry is moving. But I have very good reasons for not being happy about it.
Either way, the RED camera has nothing to do with this conversation. No manufacturer of prosumer/consumer is putting the research in that those guys are......at least not yet. If you want to hear gripes, check, reduser.com. There are plenty. It's not the holy grail yet. Not like I'd kick one out of bed or anything though.
I think you guys (JVC) as well as everyone else need to pioneer a global shutter CMOS system. Like I said, viosport seems to have figured something out. I wouldn't care about sensor type if the rolling shutter thing would just go away. The power consumption alone of CMOS makes it worth pursuing.
But in the meantime, when I look for cameras and see CMOS, I keep looking.
Just ride something mellow and don't crash. I want to see the footage.
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lol, i do like 3 chip systems better, like our 3chip LCoS displays that we used to make and sorta still do (fpj's)Now it comes out
So then stand out by offering one or two. I'll buy one. The fact that panasonic made/makes the hdc-sd9 means they got me (and several others I know) as a customer as well as someone who sings the praises of their product.
I can't debate the fact that this is the way the industry is moving. But I have very good reasons for not being happy about it.
I think you guys (JVC) as well as everyone else need to pioneer a global shutter CMOS system. Like I said, viosport seems to have figured something out. I wouldn't care about sensor type if the rolling shutter thing would just go away. The power consumption alone of CMOS makes it worth pursuing.
But in the meantime, when I look for cameras and see CMOS, I keep looking.
CMOS and CCD both have the advantages and disadvantages, no argument about that. as a consumer looking to use my camera for nothing fancy, i would prefer a CMOS unit. my HD cams are both CCD and our new pro cam that im trying to grab is also 3CCD...its just .mov based (which sucks for me)
it would be nice for us to "stand out" as you put it, and i agree, but you have to understand how Japanese companies work. even if its a 100% clear cut case, they wont do it...because it means to be different from the rest of the market.
Consumers are gobbling up our CMOS cams as well as other company's products as well. the average consumer (not you and me), has no fvcking idea what the hell we are talking about. if manufacturers were to taught how good CCD's are, then thats what people will buy.
i honestly dont know what is going on with the development of shutters used in camcorders. when you hear typical complaints from consumers, this isnt a "issue" as we both see it. i also dont think that VioSport is making their own sensors. they are way too small of a company to be investing research into chip R&D,but i could be wrong.
im heading to our mid year product reveal next week, so im hoping to grab a production piece the Monday after that. id be able to post 2 weekends from now
Need to get a camcorder for a weekend event and want to spend under $600 and get HD. A local big box has these 2:
Sony HDR-CX100
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/sony-handycam-hdr-cx100/4505-6500_7-33490862.html?tag=mncol;lst
JVC GZHM200
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/jvc-everio-gz-hm200/4505-6500_7-33490581.html?tag=mncol;lst
I liked the size of both - either would be easy to transport/carry for a family event and to the trails for some footage. Liked how the JVC has the twin card setup and stuff like the carry strap and 200x lense was nice in my book. Sony didn't seem bad either.
Any thoughts on either or another in that price range like the Canon HF20? Or something from Panasonic?
Sony HDR-CX100
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/sony-handycam-hdr-cx100/4505-6500_7-33490862.html?tag=mncol;lst
JVC GZHM200
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/jvc-everio-gz-hm200/4505-6500_7-33490581.html?tag=mncol;lst
I liked the size of both - either would be easy to transport/carry for a family event and to the trails for some footage. Liked how the JVC has the twin card setup and stuff like the carry strap and 200x lense was nice in my book. Sony didn't seem bad either.
Any thoughts on either or another in that price range like the Canon HF20? Or something from Panasonic?
the HM200 if you want a flash based cam. it can also hold 2 32gb cards and automatically switches b/w the cards when one is full.
Abes of Maine in NJ has the Sony the cheapest at $436 and onecall.com has the JVC the cheapest at $449
Abes of Maine in NJ has the Sony the cheapest at $436 and onecall.com has the JVC the cheapest at $449
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Yeah it's kind of a shame. But every single person I've shown side by side comparisons between CMOS and CCD footage, just handheld, notices it.
Before long I'll essentially be the guy bemoaning the demise of betamax to VHS.
Still very telling that most of the high end cameras from everyone are CCD.
You know what's up with how sony is executing their shutters? They seem to be the best at it. (canon by far the worst)
hey, we won that war against Sony!
yeah most hi end cams are CCD, particularly a 3CCD gettup. 3 chips are always better than one, especially when it comes to video.
im not sure what they are doing, but Sony's has always had a better cam than most other companies out there. Canon makes fantastic digital cameras, but their consumer camcorders have never really been that good at all.
i wish our consumer line would focus some of it's efforts on the pro-sumer category, but since we dropped out high end GRHD1 mini-dv HD cam, we havent.
we have a new high end consumer cam coming out next month w/ a 1/2.33 10.3mp CMOS sensor that also has some nice manual control features as well as high speed shooting and a high end audio processor built in.
its been proving to be pretty nice, but its still a rolling shutter
Cool - thanks Rice!
Where is your pocket cam PRnot to promote my company or anything, but our new "toy cam" will have a 8mp CMOS sensor, 1080p output (1440x1080i recording), 30/60fps, 8mp stills, 128mb internal w/ a SDHC slot all for $199.
press release will be in September sometime.
(btw this is my new helmet cam too)
sorry, i forgot about this thread.Where is your pocket cam PR
we just had a press release on Sept 4th, so i can post this now.
“Menu-less” Simple & Easy Operation
Direct Sending to iTunes®/YouTube™ (.MOV file)
Image Stabilizer (video only)
8 Megapixel Still Image Recording
1080P/30fps HD Video Recording
4x Digital Zoom
Convenient USB Battery Charging
HDMI™ and AV Output Terminal
SD/SDHC Card Compatible (up to 32GB) (128MB built-in)
Built in Lithium-ion battery for approx. 70 minutes.
2.0” Color LCD
1080p: 1440 x 1080p / 30fps
720p: 1280 x 720p / 60fps
VGA: 640 x 480 / 60fps
QVGA: 320 x 240p / 30fps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC / H.264: MOV, Audio: AAC
53.0mm x 97.0mm x 16.3mm, Approx. 100g
this is what im currently expecting:
our new $999 pro-sumer cam
32GB Built-in Flash Memory and SD/SDHC Card Slot
1/2.33-inch 10.3 Megapixel CMOS Sensor
HD Gigabrid Premium II Engine
24 Mbps Ultra High Quality AVCHD Recording
O.I.S. Camera Shake Compensation
Multi-Function Dial (for manual focus, brightness, etc.)
Direct Control Buttons (assignable function)
Up to 600fps Recording for Ultra-Slow Motion Playback
60fps/5.3 Megapixel Motor Drive Shooting
9 Megapixel Stills 15fps Continuous Shooting (in still mode)
5.3 Megapixel Stills While Recording Full HD Video
Unique JVC K2 Technology
• KONICA MINOLTA HD LENS
• One Touch Upload to YouTube™*, One Touch Export*
• Face Detection
• Laser Touch Operation
• Flash, Accessory Shoe, Mic Input, Headphone Output
our new $999 pro-sumer cam
32GB Built-in Flash Memory and SD/SDHC Card Slot
1/2.33-inch 10.3 Megapixel CMOS Sensor
HD Gigabrid Premium II Engine
24 Mbps Ultra High Quality AVCHD Recording
O.I.S. Camera Shake Compensation
Multi-Function Dial (for manual focus, brightness, etc.)
Direct Control Buttons (assignable function)
Up to 600fps Recording for Ultra-Slow Motion Playback
60fps/5.3 Megapixel Motor Drive Shooting
9 Megapixel Stills 15fps Continuous Shooting (in still mode)
5.3 Megapixel Stills While Recording Full HD Video
Unique JVC K2 Technology
• KONICA MINOLTA HD LENS
• One Touch Upload to YouTube™*, One Touch Export*
• Face Detection
• Laser Touch Operation
• Flash, Accessory Shoe, Mic Input, Headphone Output
I suggest the new contour1080p. It's the newest product from the vholdr family and its quality is ridic. But there are a lot of other cameras out there to choose from, I just think the contour1080p is the best investment and looks sturdier/better than the other ones.
Wait wut?
They did a firmware change that shoots 24p now? Oh shlt game over.
Is it 24 whole frames or the much more useful 23.976? And yes it matters.
I've only seen footage from the original 30p setups and it was about some of the finest video footage I've ever seen.
EDIT: You on crack?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583987-REG/Canon_2764B004_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html#features
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this is what i currently recommend 
and get to play with for the next month
and get to play with for the next month
Yo!this is what i currently recommend
What sort of deal can you get me on it?
its a $1000 cam, but i could get it for you at around $810Yo!
What sort of deal can you get me on it?
http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028580&pathId=171&page=10
Yeah who cares what IT looks like.
What does the FOOTAGE look like
What does the FOOTAGE look like