Headlocks - good or not so good ?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by jungle, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. jungle

    jungle Monkey

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    #1 -   Mar 3, 2006

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  2. BIGHIT8989

    BIGHIT8989 Monkey

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    i guess they are alrigt, not my personal prefrence. I broke one when tightening it. spider locks are still the best
     
    #2 -   Mar 3, 2006
  3. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    The azonic ones are good.

    The supa lightweight woodman ones are not so good. Pretty fragile.
     
    #3 -   Mar 3, 2006
  4. Spunger

    Spunger Git yer dumb questions here

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    I have headlocks on 3 bikes. I just trust that connection more than a star nut. It's almost mandatory on a DH bike or something that takes lots of abuse. Get a good headset and a headlock and be done with it.

    I have a king/headlock combo and 2 FSA pig DH pro's with headlocks as well. All work fine and setup correctly.
     
    #4 -   Mar 3, 2006
  5. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    I know people that use the Azonic ones and love them, but personally I just stick to the tried-and-true star nut. If I were to use one Azonic would be my first and last choice.
     
    #5 -   Mar 3, 2006
  6. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    They are good in the right applications. Rik Flair always employed the head lock in an excellent manner. He could slip in the hair pull to the mat and the ref never caught him.
     
    #6 -   Mar 3, 2006
  7. in the trees

    in the trees Turbo Monkey

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    I've always used an Azonic Headlock. I tried once (and only once) to run an integrated stem/top crown without one and I couldn't keep the str nut tight enough to keep the crown from creeping up the steerer. I think they are a good idea esp. with integrated stems. And I never had a problem with the Azonic one, but have had 2 Woodmans break. I'll take the weight penalty of the Azonic, thank you.

    toby
     
    #7 -   Mar 3, 2006
  8. Tootrikky

    Tootrikky Monkey

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    What's the point of a Headlock? Thought the stem and top crown (on dual crown forks) held everything in place, and the star/top cap is there to allow for bearing tension adjustment. Am I missing something?
     
    #8 -   Mar 3, 2006
  9. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    No, that's why I don't use one. You're right, Tootrikky.
     
    #9 -   Mar 3, 2006
  10. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    The crowns and stem can wiggle there way loose after a while, and with all that extra friction the fangled nut can slip just trying to get everything tightened together.
    I run the Woodman ulta light one. The Azonic is stronger for sure, but heavier.
     
  11. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Yeah, that's a good point. A good headset helps with keeping everything in adjustment, too.
     
  12. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    and so can the threads on head locks...

    It does make sense for integrated stems, but with two M8s at the stem and 3 M6s at the crown, a headlock can be overkill
     
  13. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

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    I've had been happy with my Azonic Headlock--I've had the same one on two different DH bikes--well worth the money.
     
  14. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    Theoreticaly yes, but I've never run into an issue. I think it is because they thread together on a completly different axis.
     
  15. fiddy_ryder

    fiddy_ryder Turbo Monkey

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    little dabs of loctite works wonders.. forger the headlock
     
  16. Edgy

    Edgy Monkey

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    I screwed up that star thing so many times...I dig the Headlock...nice and tight with no probs so far.
     
  17. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    like star fangled nuts....

    threads generally run in the same axis they get loose. But I've never had an issue with the star nuts so...
     
  18. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    I have never had an issue with a star nut. I also see no point in the head lock setup when it's my stem and top crown that hold everything together. The star nut just holds it in place until I've torqued down the stem.

    But I guess if it works better for some people.
     
  19. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    Exactly, except mine star-nuts would always slip within the stear-tube. To each his own
     
  20. Mtnrider

    Mtnrider Monkey

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    Dude that was some funny **** right there!:)
     
  21. Mtnrider

    Mtnrider Monkey

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    Hope makes a cool star nut replacement, i have them on all three of my mountian bikes, I think it's a lot better setup than a star nut. And not nearly as heavy as the head lock.
     
  22. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    Head locks originated with Bmx racing. As far as use with DH, If your checking your rig on a regular Basis you will probably never need a headlock. As many have said, its not the start which holds everything together, its the Stem, the star nut is just so you can put some preload on teh bearings is all. If your having problems with your crowns coming loose i would suggest looking further into why they keep coming loose, wether it be a problem with the crowns, stanchions, or stem, Or possibly lack of checking between rides. If theory you can preload your headset tighten your stem and take the top cap off and not worry about it. Not suggesting that but shouldnt see anything move after that. Also if your worried about over tightening your stem and crowns, just go buy an Inch lb tourque wrench and Set it all to spec. Then you know for sure.

    As far as everyones star nuts slipping in the steer tube's, Your Probably over tightening them. Not meaning to Slam anyone, but check your fork's or your headsets spec on what the torque is supposed to be, check it with a In lb wrench and be suprised how little force is needed for those
     
  23. Mtnrider

    Mtnrider Monkey

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    I agree star nuts are fine and good if installed properly but this is better! Easier to install, remove, reinstall, etc.
     

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  24. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    yeah, lots nicer than those gougy things.

    gotta agree with DirtyMike, if loosening is a problem, it's not your star-nut, something is probably wrong.
     
  25. bballe336

    bballe336 Turbo Monkey

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    I am running my BMX with out a starnut or headlock. Just the stem clamped tightly to the steerer and it has been fine for over 8 months.
     
  26. dexter

    dexter Turbo Monkey

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    never used one untill i got my dorado in 02 or 03 whatever the first year was they made them. anyways i run them on every bike and always will. makes sure everything is snug. only time i have ever had one fail was when i came in nose heavy over rotated on a 360 to flat and it popped a few threads off it. if it was a star nut it would have imploded. they also make switching forks from bike to bike and vice versa much easier. i always pull the starnut out
     
  27. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    Seeing that after eight months your not having troubles, sounds like you check it regulary. Key move to the issue here. I have noticed lately alot of Bmx forks going away from the star nut and literally welding a Plat inside the steerer and tapping a hole in it.

    On top of all this debate on which is better, weather or not your using a headlok, or a star nut, or teh Expander style, Do yourself a Favor. Buy yourselves an Inch lb torque wrench, Check your specs and set them up properly. I am willing to bet mos twill Be suprised in how many times they have Overtightened stuff on there bikes.
     
  28. bballe336

    bballe336 Turbo Monkey

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    My fork was welded like that stock. I broke the bolt and was to lazy to order a new one. I haven't tightened the bolts at all. Just threw on some grease and torqued them down and it has been fine.
     
  29. buildyourown

    buildyourown Turbo Monkey

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    In theory? Yes. Have you ever gone without a topcap/starnut? Even on an XC bike the stem comes loose in less than 2 rides.
    I didn't have a starnut for my new bike so I used my headset press to preload the bearings. It only worked for a bit.
     
  30. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Yeah my stem on my dj bike sucks. It never holds the headset tight.

    headlock: $15

    Decent stem: >$50

    Yay.
     
  31. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    If your setups are coming loose, find out why. The top cap is NOT, repeat NOT what keeps things tight. Are you Putting grease on your steer tube before putting your stems on??? Is your headset not seated all the way??? Are you Under torqueing your Stems??? If your STem is soooo cheap it wont hold torque, GET A BETTER ONE!!! If it wont hold torque, it isnt safe for what your doing. If your using your headlock to Hold it all together your Overloading your headset. Before You answer about wether or not your torqueing Properly, check it with a Torquw wrench

    Here are some links

    http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=13&item=TW-1

    http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=13&item=TW-2


    Notice i listed two different Wrenches, If your working on your own bike these should be teh first tools you buy

    And yes i have ridden without the top cap installed, And no My headset did NOT come loose, after about four fifteen mile plus rides it still wasnt loose!!! And thats with a CHeap Powertools stem
     
  32. fiddy_ryder

    fiddy_ryder Turbo Monkey

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    you have other issues then,, i jump every weekend and im a hack, hittin flat all th time goin otb and all. my stem has NEVER come loose on me. I did a 13 mile downhill trail ride with some seriously lock rocky sections and it did not budge once. I run a dual crown fork and niether of the crowns have come loose either.
     
  33. santacruzer87

    santacruzer87 Monkey

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    I prefer headlock, so hard to ovalize the headtube
     
  34. SCABRIDER

    SCABRIDER Monkey

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    i use regular star nuts on all my bikes and have never had problems...
     
  35. buildyourown

    buildyourown Turbo Monkey

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    Yes, but you have a top cap right?
    Trust me. I understand how a threadless headset works in theory. I'm just saying that in the real world, the topcap helps keep things tight.
     
  36. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    To show the top capp doesnt matter once your stem is properly tigtened, Sunday when i ride mine will be sitting in the garage at home. Ill update later how it does, were planning on being out most of the day so should be quite the day
     
  37. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    Ok Update for ya, ran all morning down at Southridge, played on the 4cross track for a while and did 3 or four runs up top. All with the top cap in my bag, Only trouble i had was after a crash when the bars spun a bit on the steerer. Even after that, headset was still tight.
    Its all about your initial setup and doing it right to begin with
     
  38. Tame Ape

    Tame Ape BUY HOPE!!!!!!!

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    That makes less sense then anything else posted in this thread. How does the headlock make it harder to ovalize the headtube?
     
  39. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    Agreed, if anything a Headlock installed wrong, or Over tight would do just that. Going back to the star nutt, if your tightening them up so far they are Pulling out, STOP thats too tight, they only go to about 5 inch lbs of torque
     
  40. J

    J Monkey

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    If you ride with a loose headset your headtube is more prone to ovalizing. Think of if you were to ride without a headset, the steerer tube would bang against the head tube and ovalize it. Same idea as a loose headset since everything isnt held tight.

    If anyone wants a headlock PM me! I have a brand new one for sale!